well.... boiler is staying . for now!!

[bassman]

Looks like my attempt to replace my wood eating outdoor boiler has gone to the wayside.
I wanted a multi fuel unit but my series of specific questions to sales people returned many unwanted answers.
I was hoping a multi fuel unit would have me taking days away from the woodpile but it dont work that way.
seems as no matter how good you burn wood you still have to fill it every 6 to 12 hours .
a multi fuel unit will burn waste oil with a $2500 dollar waste oil burner bolted to it but at that point my head told me that $2500 is alot of real good dry wood!!!!
so i am opting for a waste oil burner that i will make myself and install into my boiler.
it will just be a coil of copper in the stack to heat it and a bowl of bolts to burn it .
so here i am not all that in love with my OWB but my choices are to keep it or replace it with another box of issues.
I also will not spend another 10 grand heat !!
if there any of you reading this and heat more than a house and a shop and have a system that works please fill me in.

thanks

shayne

 

[ktm rider]

Bassman,

I don't think you will find anything that will heat the large area you are talking about without it needing filled every 12-16 hours. Not with wood anyway. I heat my 3,500 sq. ft. house and my 30x40 outbuilding with my multifuel unit. I never have to rush home or not go away for a day or two because I have the oil backup unit on the boiler.

If you would lose the waste oil burner and just go with a regular oil burner you would save a TON of money.
Yes, you would then have to buy the oil but I had my tank filled last winter and it has lasted through this winter also. besides how often are you actually away from your house in the winter months?
My buddy had a waste oil burner for one year. he said it was a sloopy mess of a boiler and he was sick for filtering, straining and cleaning up the oil everywhere and trying to unplug the injector nozzles evey couple days. Not to mention you never know was is actually in that bucket of used oil ( gas, antifreeze, water...ect)
'There really is no easy answer or "do it all" boiler. You will have to prioritize what you want and go from there.

 

[stonykill]

You are heating a lot of space. Just as a thought, have you looked into passive solar as a means of at least partial daytime heat? Google search it, and you'll find a lot of diy passive solar examples. I have considered building one for my shop, just to help with the heat during the daytime sunny days. Every little bit helps. Being you are looking for free, cheap heat, check it out. Being as far north as you are, it can't be a sole heat source, but if it makes your boiler run less, it will help you. >>>>>Tom

 

[bassman]

KTM I see what you are saying but I need to go 1 more year at least with this boiler as I am tapped for cash .
I also have 16 cords of green stumps and junk wood that i need to get rid of .
as far as solar i have that with my greenhouse during the day but at night it is a heatsink.
this next line says it all!!!
last year gas bill $3600
this year $1200 and $800 for wood
so i saved $1600 and that number will be higher next year as i will have all good dry seasoned wood .
this summer i will add my hot tub and water .

shayne

 

[ktm rider]

Bassman,

I'm not familiar with greenhouses at all but does the temp have to stay a constant temp? can it be a little but hotter some times than others? If so, why not look into just one of those cheap 55 gallon drum wood stoves and throw it in the greenhouse? Yes, you would be burning 2 units then but I bet it would REALLY take the heating load off the OWB. Just fire it up in the even ing and set it to low. i would guess it would take the chill off in there fairly well...
I'm sure once you got a good hot fire going in it, it would brn green wood also. or mix the dry and green wood.

Or, You could get a little Harmon Mark I coal stove and put in there since coal is cheap in your area. I know for a fact that it would burn all night very nicely and keep it toasty in there.( I have one in my basement and I only burn 1 five gallon bucket a day) You would probably only burn 3 ton at the most for the whole winter to heat your greenhouse and that would free up your OWB to heat just your house and that would take alot of the burden off your OWB.

 

[bassman]

I have a pellet stove in there right now and yes it helps alot .
I burn grain or pellets and the boiler will do a 24 hour burn with green stuff no problem.
KTM thanks for the links and I am on your side with your boiler and i have talked on the phone for over an hour with them and i see myself going that rout and i would say to ANYONE looking at a boiler to look into a indoor high effiency unit if they dont have a forest in there backyard full of free wood.
I hated pellet stoves when i first saw them but a $500 find in the local paper has changed my mind.
40 lb bag of pellets will burn for 14 hours making 40 000 btu an hour..now compare that to a woodstove and i am impressed.
less ash less mess and wife can fill it...
coal...... lets just say i will have 10 tons in the fall and i will burn it any way i can cause heating with anything other than gas has become a hobby for me.
shayne

 

[ktm rider]

I had a pellet stove also, and i liked it alot but it required power to operate. So, I went with the coal stove and sold the pellet stove. I noticed the price of the pellet have sky rocketed lately though. If you liked the pellet stove, you would love a little coal stove.

I usually just fill a grocery bag full of coal for the wife to throw into it or the boiler. that way she doesn't get dirty and it is about as easy as you can get.

10 ton of coal should last you atleast 2 years. Does your OWB have grates in it? if so, does the combustion air come up from under the grates to allow good coal burning? here is a link to a very good coal burning forum. it is mostly anthracite coal users but they are very knowledgeable about all things coal.. stop by and ask questions if you want.

http://www.nepadigital.com/bb/index.php

 

[stonykill]

Solar is pretty useless that far north in winter. We have active and passive solar systems here. The active water heating system is on all year, but does not even come on between November and February unless it is some oddball warm day and the sun is out. And then it only gets up to about 70 degrees. In October and March the solar pre-heat water temp gets up to about 80 at best. The rest of the year it heats the water to 100-140. The passive solar works to boost the house temps a few degrees during sunny days in late fall and winter, but that's it. It works best this time of year and in October. Above the 45th there just is not much energy available from solar in winter that I have seen. Of course this is Oregon, and it is overcast here a lot.

But in Canada, the guy needs a lot of heat in winter when it is really cold out. I assume that his greenhouse is going to already have passive solar collection on clear days. But the bone-chilling freezes that he gets when he is loading his boiler like mad and driving it with a fan... there is just not enough heat available from his wood boiler. I think it is a size and scale thing. He needs more BTUs than his boiler can produce in real cold weather there. Short of upsizing the wood boiler, or doubling up on them, I do not see what he can do. The coal idea seemed OK. Coal burns really hot.

Sorry that I do not have any other ideas. Our boiler is small (250k BTU rated) and at peak demand it can supply more heat than we need. I sized it to be 2x the demand, and it has turned out to be just about right. But we can still expand it and heat a greenhouse here if we want. Now it heats the water, house and garage/carport on one heating loop, in that order. I also only have it set to 165 degrees... I could up it up to 195, and fill it more often. I fill it twice a day on average, and fill it more if it is colder, less if warmer. I also burn madrone and oak on colder days, and fir and alder on warmer ones. Denser wood has more energy in it. Oak has 2x the heat of willow.

for the solar I realize in the dead of winter it won't help, I was thinking spring and fall really for that. Seems to me he has been burning a lot of green wood, and will do better next season as his wood will be dryer. Also seems he is happy with the results of the boiler, just not as happy as he had hoped to be. I feed my boiler similar to you, dense hard wood when its real cold. This time of year, or even if its over 30, its pine, milling scraps, real small stuff that most people would just chip, but its all free, and so what if I need to fill it more often with the free crap wood.

It could very well be that his unit is undersized. Like you I went for a little over 2x's my requirements. Works great. It still eats a lot of wood when its zero Fahrenheit or colder and windy, but thats not the boilers fault. My house and shop need new windows and more insulation, etc.

Heating a greenhouse has to be tough. I would expect the heat loss to be so great that I would expect to constantly feed my boiler to heat one. Still better than heating with oil or gas.

 

[bassman]

my boiler has a blower fan in the door and i could put the coal in front of that .
how do you light a coal stove ???
the coal i can get is lignite coal and i was told it light easy but i have never used coal so i am thinkin gas ??
shayne

 

[stonykill]

my boiler has a blower fan in the door and i could put the coal in front of that .
how do you light a coal stove ???
the coal i can get is lignite coal and i was told it light easy but i have never used coal so i am thinkin gas ??
shayne

I hope you don't mean gasoline, thats a good way to lose your face. When I used coal, I started a fire with wood, then added coal on top of the fire.

 

[ktm rider]

Bassman,
I have some bad news for ya. I highly doubt you will be able to burn coal in your OWB. First off, Lignite coal is a very low quality coal, I don't even bother trying to burn it even in my stove that is designed to burn coal. You need Bituminous coal or Anthracite coal. which is the best quality you can get.

Also, I had an OWB desinged like yours, No grates and I tried EVERYTHING to burn coal in it. NO DICE. Burning coal absolutely requires grates AND the combustion air comming from under the grates only.
I did put some large lumps of Bituminous coal in my OWB with some degree of sucess.
DO NOT USE GAS TO LIGHT THE COAL !! You will just lose some hair and flesh and the coal still won't be burning. You need to get a very good hot woodfire going with PLENTY of red coals in the fire and then add some coal. Not alot. Then once you get that coal going you add more and then more. It is easy to smother a wood fire with coal.

SO, just for clarification, does your OWB have grates or not? what kind of OWB is it????

 

[bassman]

it has water filled tubed for the ash to fall into a ash pan.
It also had a coal option for a coal port that i didnt get but i have contacted the manufacturer for details on what is needed to burn coal.
way i see it is coal burns longer and if i can get it to burn i will be better off shoveling coal than loading wood.
as far as the type of coal i can also get subbituminous coal for $60 a ton .
just joking about the gas thing i only use gas to light my pellet stove and i use about a teaspoon on a handfull of pellets and i let it soak in and it is the fastest way yet to get it going but keep in mind this is in the greenhouse so the smell is ok .

 

[ktm rider]

Sounds like you have no other option than to get the coal option to burn coal well. What kind of OWB is it?? mahoning, central boiler....?????

 

[windthrown]

my boiler has a blower fan in the door and i could put the coal in front of that .
how do you light a coal stove ???
the coal i can get is lignite coal and i was told it light easy but i have never used coal so i am thinkin gas ??
shayne

Wood boilers are designed to burn wood. Coal burns a lot hotter. At least the coal that my brother bought several years ago did. Anthrosite coal? Or something like that. We made the mistake of burning it in the fireplace and it melted right through the steel fireplace grate. I would imagine that it could do the same kind of damage to a wood boiler.

Having said that... you could rig something up. Find something that will not melt, like firebrick, and lay them out flat in the middle-front of the wood boiler firebox floor (if you have a solid foor in there). Maybe a course of say, 6 bricks (laid out 3 x 2). Then burn the coal on there, and the wood around it and use wood coals to start the coal with. Might work.

 

[bassman]

cozeburn 250 ss
http://www.profab.org/Products/Cozeburn.aspx
I am finding that wood is in no way a single catagory as i have all kinds of it and it all burns way different and dry birch is way better than dry pine and all i have left is green everything.
I am going to try flax straw soaked with used cooking oil.

 

[ktm rider]

hey !! Don't burn that used cooking oil, send it to me and I will put it in my bio diesel processor !!!!

 

[hbbyloggr]

I've had an induced draft Empyre SS 450 for more than 4 yrs now. I went from garbage wood to split wood and now have found that round wood, 2yrs old ,cut 3 ft long works the best. I like to keep the diameter of the wood around 10 inches. But we run larger and smaller.
I also put an 8 to 6 inch reducer on the top of the smoke pipe. My theory was to try to keep the smoke in the furnace a little longer for a better burn.
Instead of having to fill the stove every 12 hr we now fill it once in 24 hrs. Of course temps are moderating, but i have notice a big difference. But they do eat wood! In the dead of NH winter with temps at zero we would go through 1 cord per week. I supply wood for another guy with an Empyre 650 and he goes through the same amount heating his house and 3 apartments.

We heat an old cape, 60 gal super store hot water tank, 40x60 shop, a 45ft dry kiln, and next year it will also handle a green house.
I'm waiting for the next generation of clean burning more efficient wood fired boilers to make it into the marketplace. But for now I'm like you. I'll run what I have ,for now.

 

[stonykill]

I've had an induced draft Empyre SS 450 for more than 4 yrs now. I went from garbage wood to split wood and now have found that round wood, 2yrs old ,cut 3 ft long works the best. I like to keep the diameter of the wood around 10 inches. But we run larger and smaller.
I also put an 8 to 6 inch reducer on the top of the smoke pipe. My theory was to try to keep the smoke in the furnace a little longer for a better burn.
Instead of having to fill the stove every 12 hr we now fill it once in 24 hrs. Of course temps are moderating, but i have notice a big difference. But they do eat wood! In the dead of NH winter with temps at zero we would go through 1 cord per week. I supply wood for another guy with an Empyre 650 and he goes through the same amount heating his house and 3 apartments.

We heat an old cape, 60 gal super store hot water tank, 40x60 shop, a 45ft dry kiln, and next year it will also handle a green house.
I'm waiting for the next generation of clean burning more efficient wood fired boilers to make it into the marketplace. But for now I'm like you. I'll run what I have ,for now.

thats a lot of space to heat. I bet you would really hate the oil bill to heat all of that. You are right, dry round is best. Standing dead works fantastic in my boiler. In the old woodstoves we used to use in the house that stuff would last only a 1/2 hour. In the boiler it lasts great as the boiler doesn't have to work as hard to heat the water. I use the garbage wood in warmer weather, saving the good stuff for the cold weather.

 

[hbbyloggr]

The old house never had central heat until I installed an oil FHW furnace in 1989. I had the 275 gal tank filled at that time and it's still 5/8 full from the original filling. We like wood.
We sell around 1000 cord a year, buying in tree length and processing/delivering from our yard. Still , we have to buy the wood in for ourselves, so its not free. I can't even imagine what the bill would be for oil, plus having to install another full system for the shop.

Usually during the spring and summer we burn the scraps that get screened from the Multitek processor. That is the main reason we bought the furnace - to get rid of the waste. To that end it has worked well for us. But during the winter we don't make too much waste wood, besides it gets contaminated with the snow and freezes up. That is the reason we burn the round wood.

I may try reducing the stack to 4 or 5 inches as an experiment to see if it improves the smoke and burn time even more.

One follow up thought: This winter there were a few house fires. Even the pellet stove shop in Jaffrey, NH burned down. Most of the fires were determined to be faulty stoves; wood and/or pellet. I don't have that hazard hanging over me anymore with our OWB 125 ft from the house.

 

[stonykill]

I may try reducing the stack to 4 or 5 inches as an experiment to see if it improves the smoke and burn time even more.

One follow up thought: This winter there were a few house fires. Even the pellet stove shop in Jaffrey, NH burned down. Most of the fires were determined to be faulty stoves; wood and/or pellet. I don't have that hazard hanging over me anymore with our OWB 125 ft from the house.

I am curious about the stack. My boiler has whats called a turbo burn that keeps the smoke in the firebox longer. It really smokes very little. I would be interested in seeing pictures of your stack, and how your experiment works out. Keep us posted. Not sure its something I need to do, but being we are in similar climates, I am interested.

The fire being outside is a huge benefit. Besides the obvious that you state, by not bringing wood in the house, the dirt, dust, smoke, and bugs all stay outside where they belong.