Good piece of advice right there.
A Cup of Shutup and some Humble Pie is a good diet.
Hope you get the offer.
What do companies look for?
- Thread starter Crawlin98xj
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Good piece of advice right there.
A Cup of Shutup and some Humble Pie is a good diet.
Hope you get the offer.
gemniii
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I have to agree, the OP's command of the language is exceptional.
When I was raised I was taught that the true value of a high school or college diploma was either it's use for starting a fire or wiping your butt. Look at Bill Gates - moderately well off and didn't graduate college.
Getting hired onto a logging crew may be a start, but I would advise the OP to look at perhaps the Army or National Guard. They have some positions like this, I just finished 37 years working for the Corps of Engineers and started out as an E4 (Specialist) Biological Assistant enlisted. Within 3 years I got out and bought 75 acres of land in Vt, lot's of trees to cut.
The OP sounds extremely well spoken and literate. I imagine in 5 or 10 years he could own his own land to cut trees on.
One of my friends grew up in Florida, never got high school, got his GED, spent about 12 years in the Army as a Terrain Analyst and the last time I talked to him he was deploying to Afghanistan for 6 months and making about $180K /year for GIS work. W/o a college diploma.
good luck OP!
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm kinda done with the training rookies thing, myself, I have a nephew that is a really hard working and literally runs everywhere when asked to get something, so I'll keep him going as spare help, but it seems that logging and saws and lumber is such a goofy line of work, where from the outside looking in it seems simple and brainless, but there are so many little things that just take too long to learn and if these simple little things are not done at the right time, at best it means there is more work for the next person or at worst someone dies.
I think when you combine all of those little things that need to be learned with the constant fact that one logging rookie's screw-up can cost you or others their lifes, literally. I think that is what separates it as a job/career, as appose to say being a machinist or construction worker. I mean there are dangers in every line of work, but just in cutting and skidding, rookies can destroy so much in so little time it isn't funny or kill you. Logging is dangerous enough that you need to keep track of the mistakes that you, yourself make daily to no get injured, but if a rookie is around you have to have eyes in the back of your head.
One of my most favorite rookies that didn't work out because he was literally too stupid, was a 20ish guy that literally ran 3 miles every morning before coming to work and then worked just as hard as we did if not more, because he didn't know what he was doing. He tried really hard, but in the end, his stupidity was like a vacuum and it ended up slowing down 2-3 other pro's. After awhile his long way of doing things or weird way or dumb way caused the rest of us to just stop working and watch him, and it got to the point that we would rather just walk over there and do it ourselves. I mean half of the spare time each day was dedicated to talking about what dumb stuff he did that day and what he was going to do tomorrow. That is a hard pill to swallow, when your paying that person for a good day's work. Other than smashing parts of a saw, and losing an axe he didn't cost me any hardware, but it was just a matter of time.
Every rookie costs the company money, just assume that ............. so try not to be typical in that area. I know I have a pretty known policy with those that I do work for, in that, if its pretty obvious that I cost you money, then I will pay for it. I don't want people to be worried they hired me, or look at me as if I'm a risk to their operation, at any point.
I have a saying that I have never heard anywhere else and its this," I'm smart enough to know, when I don't know what I'm doing." Basically if you don't know that outcome of your actions, STOP. Don't be so young and dumb and prideful that you don't want to ask someone a question, by the same token, be smart enough to get involved in something that you do have some common sense about or similiar experience to fall back on, otherwise you will cost the company money, because you will have to constantly ask a pro what the next step is, when at times somethings are logical.
I remember when I was little, driving 110+ hp tractors and having to stand on the clutch with both feet and pull up on the steering wheel to get enough weight on it, LOL. My family had no choice, I drove grain trucks between farms before the age of 13 nobody thought a thing of it. Dad and I cleared trees from pastures and fence rows every summer in 100 degree heat. In my mid-20's, I went to help a buddy out with his small logging operation in WI just to past the time between bullridings and after the first day, I figured it to be a good money maker as a Monday-Thursday thing to do, bought a skidder on the 2nd day of my "career", and made good money in the first week of operation, cutting and skidding by myself, but that would not have been possible if I hadn't had 20+ years of working similar little jobs separately, that gave me just enough experience and the smarts to put it all together.
Logging use to be a common sense trade for young men to step into, in that they probably grew up working hard physically with firewood, axes, saws and such, and weren't such wussies that they could take a chance now and then and not get rattle over it, but nowadays, first kids don't have a clue what hard work is, much less take any pride in doing it and skateboarding is their biggest physical risk or responsibility. The youth today in this country are a joke of what they should be, a 10 year old in the 1930's would be considered a "man" today of the highest standards, LOL.
If I have to pick good rookie traits, I want smarts, willingness and if he needs to travel somewhere on foot to get something, then run, that has helped me gain respect in many places, everyone walks, nobody runs anywhere, that is the simplest and fastest way to show others you mean business and aren't present just to get a paycheck. I have only worked two Union Jobs in my life and both of them broke me of running in order to make myself appear more valuable or more efficient at getting more done in an hour than the next person.
My dad taught me this and he taught my nephew this same thing. If we had to get him a wrench we ran to get that wrench. If he said to move that tractor we ran to that tractor. I remember a machine shop where I worked the boss was on the second story to oversee everyone from his big window, out of 50 employee's, how do you think I got noticed from the first minute to the last, running, LOL, to the point that I received many "talks" about slowing down, LOL, how many times do you think that boss ever had to tell someone else before or after me to "slow down". Not very many if ever. That is a good problem. When that boss had to discuss me with others in management, what was my "problem" I ran to quickly or moved to quickly, which translated into getting noticed for speed and efficiency (I didn't get injured or break anything), that is a good problem for management to have to discuss. When the boss and others looked down at the other longtime employee's slowing walking around like drunk ants, there was one guy moving very quickly like he wanted to get something done that day, and make them some money. You want to be that person (in non-union workplaces, LOL).
After you gain the respect of others through the above, then it doesn't matter, as much, what you lack in the other areas, if you can pick it up quick enough, because the "pro's" and the boss know and feel your there to make a difference in any area that you can, regardless of your rookie limitations, and if they know that, then they don't think its a waste of their time and effort to teach you the ropes of the trade, and fine tune you into something useful and profitable.
In touching on the above, it is my feelings that the reason there is a major lack of these traits is the fatherless children. I have always found that most hard lessons in life are taught best by strong fathers (not friends or fathers that want to be a friend, but a true parent of a father). Dads that know if their children are going to make it in most any setting, they can succeed best if they work hard and apply themselves. On average mothers just don't have the "makeup" to instill these traits in young children or youth. I didn't grow up loving to work hard (for the most part no human "wants" to work hard), but my dad showed me it wouldn't kill me and that whatever else I faced on this earth probably wasn't going to be as hard as working with him, LOL.
My opinion,
Sam
I think when you combine all of those little things that need to be learned with the constant fact that one logging rookie's screw-up can cost you or others their lifes, literally. I think that is what separates it as a job/career, as appose to say being a machinist or construction worker. I mean there are dangers in every line of work, but just in cutting and skidding, rookies can destroy so much in so little time it isn't funny or kill you. Logging is dangerous enough that you need to keep track of the mistakes that you, yourself make daily to no get injured, but if a rookie is around you have to have eyes in the back of your head.
One of my most favorite rookies that didn't work out because he was literally too stupid, was a 20ish guy that literally ran 3 miles every morning before coming to work and then worked just as hard as we did if not more, because he didn't know what he was doing. He tried really hard, but in the end, his stupidity was like a vacuum and it ended up slowing down 2-3 other pro's. After awhile his long way of doing things or weird way or dumb way caused the rest of us to just stop working and watch him, and it got to the point that we would rather just walk over there and do it ourselves. I mean half of the spare time each day was dedicated to talking about what dumb stuff he did that day and what he was going to do tomorrow. That is a hard pill to swallow, when your paying that person for a good day's work. Other than smashing parts of a saw, and losing an axe he didn't cost me any hardware, but it was just a matter of time.
Every rookie costs the company money, just assume that ............. so try not to be typical in that area. I know I have a pretty known policy with those that I do work for, in that, if its pretty obvious that I cost you money, then I will pay for it. I don't want people to be worried they hired me, or look at me as if I'm a risk to their operation, at any point.
I have a saying that I have never heard anywhere else and its this," I'm smart enough to know, when I don't know what I'm doing." Basically if you don't know that outcome of your actions, STOP. Don't be so young and dumb and prideful that you don't want to ask someone a question, by the same token, be smart enough to get involved in something that you do have some common sense about or similiar experience to fall back on, otherwise you will cost the company money, because you will have to constantly ask a pro what the next step is, when at times somethings are logical.
I remember when I was little, driving 110+ hp tractors and having to stand on the clutch with both feet and pull up on the steering wheel to get enough weight on it, LOL. My family had no choice, I drove grain trucks between farms before the age of 13 nobody thought a thing of it. Dad and I cleared trees from pastures and fence rows every summer in 100 degree heat. In my mid-20's, I went to help a buddy out with his small logging operation in WI just to past the time between bullridings and after the first day, I figured it to be a good money maker as a Monday-Thursday thing to do, bought a skidder on the 2nd day of my "career", and made good money in the first week of operation, cutting and skidding by myself, but that would not have been possible if I hadn't had 20+ years of working similar little jobs separately, that gave me just enough experience and the smarts to put it all together.
Logging use to be a common sense trade for young men to step into, in that they probably grew up working hard physically with firewood, axes, saws and such, and weren't such wussies that they could take a chance now and then and not get rattle over it, but nowadays, first kids don't have a clue what hard work is, much less take any pride in doing it and skateboarding is their biggest physical risk or responsibility. The youth today in this country are a joke of what they should be, a 10 year old in the 1930's would be considered a "man" today of the highest standards, LOL.
If I have to pick good rookie traits, I want smarts, willingness and if he needs to travel somewhere on foot to get something, then run, that has helped me gain respect in many places, everyone walks, nobody runs anywhere, that is the simplest and fastest way to show others you mean business and aren't present just to get a paycheck. I have only worked two Union Jobs in my life and both of them broke me of running in order to make myself appear more valuable or more efficient at getting more done in an hour than the next person.
My dad taught me this and he taught my nephew this same thing. If we had to get him a wrench we ran to get that wrench. If he said to move that tractor we ran to that tractor. I remember a machine shop where I worked the boss was on the second story to oversee everyone from his big window, out of 50 employee's, how do you think I got noticed from the first minute to the last, running, LOL, to the point that I received many "talks" about slowing down, LOL, how many times do you think that boss ever had to tell someone else before or after me to "slow down". Not very many if ever. That is a good problem. When that boss had to discuss me with others in management, what was my "problem" I ran to quickly or moved to quickly, which translated into getting noticed for speed and efficiency (I didn't get injured or break anything), that is a good problem for management to have to discuss. When the boss and others looked down at the other longtime employee's slowing walking around like drunk ants, there was one guy moving very quickly like he wanted to get something done that day, and make them some money. You want to be that person (in non-union workplaces, LOL).
After you gain the respect of others through the above, then it doesn't matter, as much, what you lack in the other areas, if you can pick it up quick enough, because the "pro's" and the boss know and feel your there to make a difference in any area that you can, regardless of your rookie limitations, and if they know that, then they don't think its a waste of their time and effort to teach you the ropes of the trade, and fine tune you into something useful and profitable.
In touching on the above, it is my feelings that the reason there is a major lack of these traits is the fatherless children. I have always found that most hard lessons in life are taught best by strong fathers (not friends or fathers that want to be a friend, but a true parent of a father). Dads that know if their children are going to make it in most any setting, they can succeed best if they work hard and apply themselves. On average mothers just don't have the "makeup" to instill these traits in young children or youth. I didn't grow up loving to work hard (for the most part no human "wants" to work hard), but my dad showed me it wouldn't kill me and that whatever else I faced on this earth probably wasn't going to be as hard as working with him, LOL.
My opinion,
Sam
Crawlin98xj
ArboristSite Lurker
Holy ####, thanks for all the positive replies. No worries about the piss test, no drugs for me. Once I got to bull riding, skate boarding and fatherless children I had to stop reading though lol. I know my way around saws and trees but at the same time I am going in to the company with no bad habits. Taking jokes is no problem and I take pride being the best I can at what I do so I will be taking in and learning everything I possibly can. The more money I make the company, the more money I will make in the long run. I will keep you guys updated and show you that there are still smart, hard working young people still around. Maybe hard to find, but we are around!
Alex
Alex
Samlock
Addicted to ArboristSite
I used to be a carpenter and I started doing that as 16 years old too. I had to give up the construction work because I couldn't take the concrete dust anymore and came across the forestry by an accident, really. I tried to quit that too once, but I found out a dog had already bit me, it's an addiction, I had no choice but to return to the bush. So, beware, young man!
I gather the things are quite different on the other side of the pond, but still I imagine a construction worker makes a lot more chips than a logger there as well. Plus as a rookie you have to take the crappiest jobs there is in the business just to get a foot in.
As a carpenter you at least have an eye for cross cutting the logs straight. And the constructor crews thicken your skin really quick. Otherwise, if you get a job in a new business, just forget you ever thought you had some accurate knowledge about it. You'll soon find out you didn't.
I gather the things are quite different on the other side of the pond, but still I imagine a construction worker makes a lot more chips than a logger there as well. Plus as a rookie you have to take the crappiest jobs there is in the business just to get a foot in.
As a carpenter you at least have an eye for cross cutting the logs straight. And the constructor crews thicken your skin really quick. Otherwise, if you get a job in a new business, just forget you ever thought you had some accurate knowledge about it. You'll soon find out you didn't.
redprospector
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dam Sam,
Can we get that in paperback? Or does it just come in the hard back version?
Andy
HILLBILLYREDNEC
Addicted to ArboristSite
When I hired green horns I had two rules. Keep the ears and eyes open and be willing to work even when there never seems to be enough for everyone. Mouth shut and eyes open and ears open and show up where and when told. Stay out of the bullbucks way and let the crew bring you into there inner circle.
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dam Sam,
Can we get that in paperback? Or does it just come in the hard back version?
Andy
It comes in download version or copy and paste, LOL. I say what I think and I can type fast ..... its a bad combination, LOL.
Sam
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
??? Seriously, what were you in charge of???? Who let you be in charge of it??
Were you ever in the "inner circle"???
Just wondering.
Sam
I was never in charge of hiring but I was in charge of firing. And I don't mean with a drip torch, though I did that too. One of the biggest problems employees had was just showing up on time. If works starts at 07:00 show up at 06:30 and grease the equipment or check fluid levels or maybe warm it up (once you have been shown how and the operator is OK with it). What ever, at least show up ready to work and not just ready to drink coffee.
RANT ON: I drives me freakin crazy when a guy shows up to work with a pastry that he can't set down anywhere so he has to finish it first before he can work AND he is on the clock. Work starts when I say it does not when you say it does. :RANT OFF
RANT ON: I drives me freakin crazy when a guy shows up to work with a pastry that he can't set down anywhere so he has to finish it first before he can work AND he is on the clock. Work starts when I say it does not when you say it does. :RANT OFF
Crawlin98xj
ArboristSite Lurker
I shower at night, eat when I wake up and the crew gets picked up at the hotel so everyone gets to the site on time. Took the drug test today as well as a physical for DOT so I can drive company trucks and should hear where I am going tomorrow at some time. From there it will be booking a flight and going to work. Thank you all for the positive advice and praise for my English skills. I don't know any of you but compliments like that are always nice to hear.
Alex
Alex
HILLBILLYREDNEC
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was a gypo faller and during fire season I worked as bull buck for a small 5 man full service logging crew. Th regular bull took fire work during the fire season for big dollars skinning cat.
Of course, you're in Oregon. New Jersey's the only other state won't let you pump your own gas.
One of our cutters took off to be a HFEO this season (for a contractor) though I don't know if he worked any fires or not. Right now he has taken my job since I'm sick. We have bumped heads once or twice but I think he is a good guy.
Scotty have you done any fire work?
Guido Salvage
Supreme Saw Whoreder
Here we go again..... Not only have you claimed to have been a gypo, but a medic/EMT, tree farm manager, carpenter, timber preserve manager, etc.
If this is the best you can do with all the experience you claim to have, I would hate to see the "green horns" work.
[video=youtube_share;l3IR7CHD1k4]http://youtu.be/l3IR7CHD1k4 [/video]
He never stops, does he?
Just give us one name, just one, of anyone you worked for in the timber industry. Saying you were a "gypo" doesn't cut it, someone was writting you a check if you were working for them.
You might want to reflect on this post you made over on the Chainsaw Forum about the guy who didn't tell his wife about the $900 saw he bought. Quite a double standard that you employ.
Be man and grow a pair. Tell the truth. My fiancee hates me to not teller why I hauled home some more saws or parts, she already knows the landlord refers to me as Jed ClampetA real man tells the his partner the truth,a coward hides things from his partner.
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/183405-2.htm#post3224550
Crawlin98xj
ArboristSite Lurker
:monkey:
Well said.
:monkey::monkey:
Slamm
Addicted to ArboristSite
Anybody watch this one of Hillbillyredork? He has 20 other treasures on youtube.
Hazard Tree Failure Review - YouTube
Sam
Hazard Tree Failure Review - YouTube
Sam
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