ross_scott
ArboristSite Guru
brand names such as pioneer, Mcculloch etc were still around what would their saws be like today and would stihl and husqvarna be as dominant on the market as what they are today
What if
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The last macs made were junk like the new poulans. It's a shame that a company gives in to the foreign market to sell garbage for profit. I think if the macs and poulans come out with a decent saw they would sell. Can't speak for the pioneer. I never seen or ran one. But they sure do look nice from the pics of members here.
andrethegiant70
Addicted to ArboristSite
I actually though Mac was still making saws somewhere. No matter, the gent is right, they are not good saws. I think we see what would happen if we take a look at Homelite. When it comes to saws, there's a pretty good basis for getting nostalgic for the old days.
They may be sold somewhere, I haven't seen one here in a while. Home depot or Lowes used to sell them. They looked like something crazy, Wildly colored and cheap. I'm with you though, If you're going to buy a mac, Better look for an old one. Randymac could tell ya about all those old macs he ran.
ross_scott
ArboristSite Guru
that is what I am getting at guys like if McCulloch was not bought out and crap saws marketed under that brand what would they be like now if they were still being manufactured in their original factories and not demoted to inferior quality just to make their own brand e.g Husqvarna take a strangle hold on the market.
E.V.A. Sawman
ArboristSite Operative
I have used both Pioneer, and Partner saws in their Prime,and they were excellent saws way ahead of all the others in technology. They both were swallowed up by the Husqvarna, buy out. They started the poulan pro line, which was created with Pioneer, and Partner models,and then they slowly eliminated the other two lines. (partner survives in Europe) They were better saws at the time than the rest, and if they still were in business as separate companies, they most likely would be excellent modern saws, most likely still ahead of the competition.
I think if they had a different history the Macs would have still survived. If the employees had purchased the company like the Harley employees did after the AMF years they may have remained the icon they were.
Who knows what would have been?
Too bad a good company wouldn't get hold of the old icon names and make something good again. Some manufacturing growth in the USA would be nice.
Corporate America just really confuses me
Who knows what would have been?
Too bad a good company wouldn't get hold of the old icon names and make something good again. Some manufacturing growth in the USA would be nice.
Corporate America just really confuses me
little possum
Crash and Burn
The way the economy is now today, I say it would all come down to who spent the most on advertising.
Round here the only advertisements you see are Stihl and Husky, hence why there arent many others like Jred, or Dolmars around
If Mac would bring back the 125, Id buy one
Round here the only advertisements you see are Stihl and Husky, hence why there arent many others like Jred, or Dolmars around
If Mac would bring back the 125, Id buy one
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Bob
PineFever
ArboristSite Operative
It would be interesting to what a refined more compact and lighter weight saw such as the 1-72 or 797 or sp125 would be like.
I suspect there is not a lot of room in the market for this sort of thing. I wonder how many accountants would wear kevlar padded leather chaps and pose around on main street toting an icon CS?
Just got my hands on a P100, and I am amazed by how many of its features are standard on modern saws today: engine layout, rim sprocket, chainbrake, solid-state ignition, etc. I like to think that Stihl and Husky were about ten years behind in design, and still would be if Partner was its own independent company today.
E.V.A. Sawman
ArboristSite Operative
My P70 has controled heated bar and rear grip, they work great, this saw has probably cut more wood in its lifetime than a person can imagine. I took it apart last year for a set of rings, which it did not need, and everthing looked as new. The original owner ran the partner 50-1 oil, which he had 2 cases of! Partner was one of the promoters of modern high performance 2-stroke oils, which everyone now runs. He said he wore out 6 bars in the saws life, it proves that some companies were not resting on their laurels and putting effort into research for a better product. Now you know why the partner saw was such a great acqusition by electrolux. The 5000 series partners were the hot rod saw of the time the will still cut with the likes of the 5100'sand 346's.
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McCulloch didn't get bought out. They went broke and the McCulloch name was auctioned off to the highest bidder.
I don't know what all the details were why they went broke, but the last batch of there own designed saws were not very good if you ask me and I'm not sure of the timeline on the Macs built in Italy.
The Poulan Pro line came out in 1988 and was filled mostly with saws of Poulans own design and Pioneers. The lone Partner that I know of off hand that was in the Poulan Pro line was the 325.
The Jonsered (Partner based) Poulan Pros came out in 1993 with some of Poulans own designs filling it out.
It was Electolux that did the buying out back then, not Husqvarna and I think the Partner name lives on in europe but there not a top end saw anymore, mostly rebadged Poulans. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.
I'm also seeking more info on the Pioneer/Partner partnership from 84-88 and have not found much on it.
I think if they had a different history the Macs would have still survived. If the employees had purchased the company like the Harley employees did after the AMF years they may have remained the icon they were.
Who knows what would have been?
Too bad a good company wouldn't get hold of the old icon names and make something good again. Some manufacturing growth in the USA would be nice.
Corporate America just really confuses me
Interesting theory as that is exactly what the Pioneer employees tried back when OMC was getting ready to close up Pioneer. Too bad that it didn't work out well, but they were so debt layden that they couldn't survive and that led to the Elux buyout.
I would like to learn more about the demise of Partner as well. They had some good designs and good saws.
I think they would have maybe survived to be a player today, but like Poulan there is $ in the brand reconition and they probably make lots of money with that brand name on consumer saws in europe as they do with Poulan in North America.
I honestly believe that Poulan would still be a player today as they were a pretty healthy company at the time they were bought out from what I can find on them at that time.
WesternSaw
Addicted to ArboristSite
Pioneer Saws
Okay some of you fellas on this thread know a bit about me,I'm no saw Guru for sure,but I am one hell of a good listener.most of the talk on AS regarding Pioneer's is that they were one hell of a saw!I mean com on the name say's it all, PIONEER! Honestly answer this question"What comes to your mind when someone say's He was a Pioneer,they were Pioneers,they Pioneer,d this or that.JEEEEZZZZ!.I'll tell you what comes to my mind,not a quitter,tough as hell,innovative,get down and get dirty.Pioneers beat the path down so people could walk the beaten path.Just wait till I get some of the Pioneer Gurus on to this thread like,well, pioneerguy600,propliner,the Pioneer thread is full of fellas that will back me up on this.I hope they will or I'm going to look like a complete idiot!LOL! Hey,just imagine if one of the firearm companies came out with a model named Pioneer.I can here it now"You see that fella over there" He's packing a Pioneer! Wow! that's just so kick ass!
Lawrence
Okay some of you fellas on this thread know a bit about me,I'm no saw Guru for sure,but I am one hell of a good listener.most of the talk on AS regarding Pioneer's is that they were one hell of a saw!I mean com on the name say's it all, PIONEER! Honestly answer this question"What comes to your mind when someone say's He was a Pioneer,they were Pioneers,they Pioneer,d this or that.JEEEEZZZZ!.I'll tell you what comes to my mind,not a quitter,tough as hell,innovative,get down and get dirty.Pioneers beat the path down so people could walk the beaten path.Just wait till I get some of the Pioneer Gurus on to this thread like,well, pioneerguy600,propliner,the Pioneer thread is full of fellas that will back me up on this.I hope they will or I'm going to look like a complete idiot!LOL! Hey,just imagine if one of the firearm companies came out with a model named Pioneer.I can here it now"You see that fella over there" He's packing a Pioneer! Wow! that's just so kick ass!
Lawrence
ross_scott
ArboristSite Guru
I have owned and used an old pioneer once it was an 11-30 and man that thing could cut I sold it five years ago because I wanted a newer saw I wish I had not done that and wish I still had it.
Pioneer made a very good strong saw at the time but they did not have deep enough pockets to keep up the R&D necessary to carry them into the future. Pioneer was deeply in dept and had production problems, mostly the cost of production was too high compared with what they could sell their saws for. Labour costs were prohibitive and the leadership of the company started breaking down.They just could not compete with the other manufacturers even though the saws were top notch and very well made. There was just so much market for chainsaws and if you could not make your product and sell it at a competitive price then your company will not make it, cannot keep running a company at a loss. All very sad but the reality of corporate America is you make a profit for your shareholders or you are sold to the highest bidder.
Pioneerguy600
Pioneerguy600
Jerry I ran across this a short time ago.
http://books.google.com/books?id=qt...e&q=Pioneer Chain Saw Massacre -texas&f=false
Very interesting reading! It explains alot of what happened to Pioneer and why. What I want to know is what happened after 1984 when Pioneer was closed untill 1988 when the Poulan Pro line was introduced.
I have a feeling that from 84-88 was when the Pioneer/Partner partnership was going on. Thats why I was asking if anyone knew what year my Pioneer/Partner 500 was made so I could get a handle on it. I was told it was a 86 which makes sense.
Denman123a
ArboristSite Lurker
Dunno if this helps but my Pioneer Partner 500 has a rivetted metal tag saying "PARTNER 500 6141865 Electrolux AB SWEDEN" That would confirm the Electrolux involvement. I thought they made vacuums. I don't understand that business either, nor do I want to.
asand1
ArboristSite Operative
Kind of a silly question.
IF pigs could fly, would they be faster or slower than a sparrow?
I think you already have your answer . Mac, Homie, and Pioneer are out of the picture for a reason. They either didn't change with the times (to slow/heavy), or they started marketing crap and lost favor. If they had stayed at the cutting edge (pun intended) they would still be around, of good quality, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
"IF" questions are generally a wasted topic because you are injecting circumstances that don't exist and never will, therefore its a mute.
Just my $0.02, Not trying to be a smart @$$.
IF pigs could fly, would they be faster or slower than a sparrow?
I think you already have your answer . Mac, Homie, and Pioneer are out of the picture for a reason. They either didn't change with the times (to slow/heavy), or they started marketing crap and lost favor. If they had stayed at the cutting edge (pun intended) they would still be around, of good quality, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
"IF" questions are generally a wasted topic because you are injecting circumstances that don't exist and never will, therefore its a mute.
Just my $0.02, Not trying to be a smart @$$.
