RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Square for felling and bucking freshly felled!!!!
RSC for dirty stuff,,,,, semi chisel for stumpin,,,,,,,,,:notrolls2:
RSC for dirty stuff,,,,, semi chisel for stumpin,,,,,,,,,:notrolls2:
who else has tried square chain and switched back to round?
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sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
are u a timber cutter? (is that your main job) i'm just wondering because i was just curious as to the full time timber fallers how many chains they take to the field with them???? how many different bars do you take to the field. have a good 'un
Haywire Haywood
Fiscal Conservative Social Retard
I usually take 2 saws with me because I never get pinched unless I only have one saw with me. I know in advance what I'm cutting usually and only take what I need as far as long bars. I have an 18 and a 24 for the 361 and the long one stays at home unless I know it's needed. The 20" 346 bar never gets used anymore because of the 361's 18 and 24. I usually have 3 or 4 chains for the shorter bars and 2 for the long.
Ian
Ian
NBailey
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
3 to 4 chains
The fallers around here all carry 3 to 4 chains with them, sharpened on a Silvey grinder the night before. They are cutting about 5 to 6 hours a day, usually in steep ground and the wood is extremely clean, unless it is by a haul road (dust) or a burn. Most will not run anything but a grinder sharpened chain because they are so consistant. Running anything else makes you work harder and the job is so physically demanding already. Most local fallers use a Silvey SDM4 that was passed down or bought from another generation. You have to be pretty lean and mean to make ends meet these days.
The fallers around here all carry 3 to 4 chains with them, sharpened on a Silvey grinder the night before. They are cutting about 5 to 6 hours a day, usually in steep ground and the wood is extremely clean, unless it is by a haul road (dust) or a burn. Most will not run anything but a grinder sharpened chain because they are so consistant. Running anything else makes you work harder and the job is so physically demanding already. Most local fallers use a Silvey SDM4 that was passed down or bought from another generation. You have to be pretty lean and mean to make ends meet these days.
1953greg
ArboristSite Guru
square sharpening
does anyone know if the angle adjustable bar mounted guides, w/ the goofy 6 edged file, can be used to file the square chains? if so do they need to b sharpened from the inside or outside of the cutter?
does anyone know if the angle adjustable bar mounted guides, w/ the goofy 6 edged file, can be used to file the square chains? if so do they need to b sharpened from the inside or outside of the cutter?
I believe Oregon and Madsens say from outside in leave bur inside of cutter. I know people have asked about the bar mount havent heard anything back about it tho.
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
stihl 440
Addicted to ArboristSite
1 chain
I take 1 chain with me unless it's an old filed back one, then I bring a new one to throw on when that one is filed back too much and dull. I don't run square filed chisel either, if I did I would take a few more with me. I can file a chain in the woods in 5 min, and that's 2-3 strokes off each tooth. But I normally put on 1 stroke every half tank just to keep it sharp. I would rather take a little time to put on one stroke or so than have to take off 5-6 strokes cause it's really dull. Then when I get home I straiten everthing up in the vice and overhead light, if needed. I could do a better job(in the woods) if the F:censored: ing saw would stay still.
:greenchainsaw: :hmm3grin2orange: :biggrinbounce2:
I take 1 chain with me unless it's an old filed back one, then I bring a new one to throw on when that one is filed back too much and dull. I don't run square filed chisel either, if I did I would take a few more with me. I can file a chain in the woods in 5 min, and that's 2-3 strokes off each tooth. But I normally put on 1 stroke every half tank just to keep it sharp. I would rather take a little time to put on one stroke or so than have to take off 5-6 strokes cause it's really dull. Then when I get home I straiten everthing up in the vice and overhead light, if needed. I could do a better job(in the woods) if the F:censored: ing saw would stay still.
:greenchainsaw: :hmm3grin2orange: :biggrinbounce2:
romeo
Addicted to ArboristSite
Everything I have is square now. I can file a round chain square faster than I can file a round chain round. I like it and it cuts fast, I started using it because I got into race saws but now use it on the work saws. I guess I just like keeping it all the same.
B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
Since my Pro Sharp is so accurate, I can sharpen my square chains very quickly. Every time.
It makes sharpening kind of fun and cutting a real joy. I don't think I would enjoy sawing without it anymore. I would say to those that are trying square that aren't very familiar with it 1) quit cutting once it's dull as it can pound the point back and require more tooth to be removed and 2) it's generally (esp. Oregon) not sharp off the reel. So don't judge it until you try fresh ground - it's a whole different animal.
One issue with that grinder is that pretty much the shortest chain I can fit onto it is 60 drive links, although I seldom run a chain less than 84dl. But it would be annoying if I was an arborist with small tree saws and couldn't run square cause they would not fit the grinder.
Actually I cannot swear you couldn't fit a shorter chain on the PS, but my 60 dl chains seem tight enough on the machine I am guessing that is about the limit.
It makes sharpening kind of fun and cutting a real joy. I don't think I would enjoy sawing without it anymore. I would say to those that are trying square that aren't very familiar with it 1) quit cutting once it's dull as it can pound the point back and require more tooth to be removed and 2) it's generally (esp. Oregon) not sharp off the reel. So don't judge it until you try fresh ground - it's a whole different animal.
One issue with that grinder is that pretty much the shortest chain I can fit onto it is 60 drive links, although I seldom run a chain less than 84dl. But it would be annoying if I was an arborist with small tree saws and couldn't run square cause they would not fit the grinder.
Actually I cannot swear you couldn't fit a shorter chain on the PS, but my 60 dl chains seem tight enough on the machine I am guessing that is about the limit.
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B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
One direction for filing and the other direction for grinding.
B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
Especially given the current prices of the all the Silvey grinders from the 510 up. No competition, I guess. I still wish the German or Japanese had motivation to make square grinders (which of course they don't). I feel even the Silveys are absolutely primitive in design as compared to what they could be. Just no market, so they get a like $700+ for a 510 and couple grand for a ProSharp. Painful.
this is exactly why I'm not using square chain. my hat's off to those of you that can file square chain in the field. my hands are not steady enough to do the job.
with round I use a file guide to help steady the correct angle. unfortunately I can't find a square chain filing guide. some one made on years ago... never to be seen again.
3-4 chains would get me through cutting all day no problems. but without a grinder to sharpen those 3-4 chains. it turns into an hour+ long job for me. not good.. when a grinder can do it perfect in a fraction of that time.
sooooo... I'm afraid it's back to round chain for me!
unless I get really lucky and find a pro-sharp for cheap
(read, not going to happen)
with round I use a file guide to help steady the correct angle. unfortunately I can't find a square chain filing guide. some one made on years ago... never to be seen again.
3-4 chains would get me through cutting all day no problems. but without a grinder to sharpen those 3-4 chains. it turns into an hour+ long job for me. not good.. when a grinder can do it perfect in a fraction of that time.
sooooo... I'm afraid it's back to round chain for me!
unless I get really lucky and find a pro-sharp for cheap
(read, not going to happen)
I think anyone that is falling standing timber for production is missing out if they are not using a square grinder. You will not find a smoother chain, and if you are on a saw all day that is one of the main things.
Someone mentioned five minutes to file a chain, that is probably a good average to touch one up. Yesterday I thought about this as I went to change one. My truck was there so I was doing it on the tail gate. Using the stop watch on a cell phone it took 2 min and 7 sec to change incliding cleaning the bar and tensioning. Keep a bag with a few ground chains with your gas and oil and you will always be ready even if you rock out bad.
My RS II is almost 20 years old and it has served me well. It has been a while since I have been around any other sq, grinder but if I remember right there were advantages and dis. for all the different design grinders. A swing arm will develop slop that will force you to use eyeball "english". The sliding arm like my RSII is not as likely to become sloppy, but if it isnt aligned right, it is hard to be able to use the eyeball english. Chain is not quite perfect so I think that you need to be able to use a little slop to your advantage. In other words you still have to look at each individual tooth as you grind and force a slight movement in the tooth to get the corner where you want. They are like filing in that it takes a while to figure out. I can almost grind one side of a 20" chain during a commercial break on TV.
Someone mentioned five minutes to file a chain, that is probably a good average to touch one up. Yesterday I thought about this as I went to change one. My truck was there so I was doing it on the tail gate. Using the stop watch on a cell phone it took 2 min and 7 sec to change incliding cleaning the bar and tensioning. Keep a bag with a few ground chains with your gas and oil and you will always be ready even if you rock out bad.
My RS II is almost 20 years old and it has served me well. It has been a while since I have been around any other sq, grinder but if I remember right there were advantages and dis. for all the different design grinders. A swing arm will develop slop that will force you to use eyeball "english". The sliding arm like my RSII is not as likely to become sloppy, but if it isnt aligned right, it is hard to be able to use the eyeball english. Chain is not quite perfect so I think that you need to be able to use a little slop to your advantage. In other words you still have to look at each individual tooth as you grind and force a slight movement in the tooth to get the corner where you want. They are like filing in that it takes a while to figure out. I can almost grind one side of a 20" chain during a commercial break on TV.
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
It does look interesting but from what I can see it just keeps the top plate angle and you would still have to freehand the side plate and the corner.
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
I agree. Only having to support one end of the file might ease the process though. I would like to give the ATOP a try, maybe some of our scandinavian members can chime in on this...
B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
Even though I am outraged by the price of a good square grinder, in the long run I feel my pro sharp was a good investment when considered over say 20 years. That's $100 a year, which is peanuts to the cost of all my saws, gas, trailer, etc.
Makes sharpening quick and accurate even though my eyes up close aren't what they were even ten years ago, which would make square filing a real pain.
And like John says, the productivity and reduced effort and wear and tear on one's body over the course of a day with sharp square is considerable.
I sometimes have people say to me "I would love to run square, but I can't afford a good grinder." And I see they drive a brand new $35k+ pickup with several grand extra in fancy rims, exhaust, extra chrome, etc. And the truck they traded in was not that old, and worked just fine.
Makes sharpening quick and accurate even though my eyes up close aren't what they were even ten years ago, which would make square filing a real pain.
And like John says, the productivity and reduced effort and wear and tear on one's body over the course of a day with sharp square is considerable.
I sometimes have people say to me "I would love to run square, but I can't afford a good grinder." And I see they drive a brand new $35k+ pickup with several grand extra in fancy rims, exhaust, extra chrome, etc. And the truck they traded in was not that old, and worked just fine.
SWE#Kipp
Addicted to ArboristSite
There is a new one in development, "Atop true square" it's to be used with a vallorbe "bevel" file, but I guess it will work with other bevel type files too ,,,,,
I got the .325 one and it's very nice for bucking/felling chains, but it's not a true square chain.
But it's very fast
Jon9sered
ArboristSite Lurker
Hi Saw troll,
Been reading your write-ups over the years, thanks for your knowledge and wisdom.
Tom O'Donnell Wanaka, New Zealand.
Been reading your write-ups over the years, thanks for your knowledge and wisdom.
Tom O'Donnell Wanaka, New Zealand.
