Who's Responsiblity? Me or the Town?

[Saw Bones]

at the end of my driveway is a very old maple tree. it is on my property and not on the town property (the town owns 10 feet in from the street and this is about 15 feet in) it appears healthy, but is rotting from the inside out. the tree has a natural lean on it. it leans toward the street. in the event it should fall, it is going across the street and taking the power lines down with it.

i guess this is legal question. when the tree falls, would i be at all responsibile for the cost of cleanup and re-running the power lines? i would remove it, but it does not pose a threat to my property, only to the town's property. plus it would cost me a fortune to have it removed, but it would likely be cheaper than having to pay for new phone and power lines if i was to be held accountable in the event it falls.

any similiar cases out there setting precedence on this one? what are your opinions?

I don't know about the law where you are. From what folks here are saying you are responsible. Do you have insurance? Here the insurance company wont pay to take the tree down. But after it falls and does upteen dollars of damage and maybe kills some one they will pay for that.

 

[linckeil]

Thanks everyone. All I was saying is to me it seemed a little common sense. I didn't even know a case could be made for letting your stuff injure other, financially, or physically. Seemed silly. Oh well, someone said, common sense isn't so common.

Have a blessed day,

Jeff

hey jeff, why are you thanking everyone??? is this your issue? is this your problem? what is your stake in this? consensus here seems to be this is my responsibility, but even so, some posts indicate the power company will remove for me. this is why i made the post - to see what the popular opinion is and to see what suggestions others may have. i am home owner trying to see if i am able to avoid a $1000 tree removal fee. how "silly" of me...... your "common sense" probably tells you to drop a grand without assessing your alternatives, and good for you if you are in position to do that. i however, am not. i am trying to do the responsible thing by acknowlegding the hazard and getting opinions on how to rectify it. but like you said, common sense is not so common. do us all a favor and keep your condescending remarks to yourself. you added zero value to this thread. thanks and "have a blessed day"...

to all others, i do appreciate your input and thanks to you i will now plan out my next steps and do the right thing.

 

[treemandan]

Look Link, it seems you are really circumnavigating the issue with this back and forth BS about nothing concrete in particular and tryin to find someone else to be liable for what is on your plate.
Maybe you will find that loophole and cling to it in hopes of a good nights sleep.
I can't say for sure how many there are but it seems there is a lot of people in denial. The question is: Just how long will the looming tower of death stay only looming?

 

[Tree Pig]

linckeil What part of Ct. are you in????????????????????

 

[linckeil]

Look Link, it seems you are really circumnavigating the issue with this back and forth BS about nothing concrete in particular and tryin to find someone else to be liable for what is on your plate.
Maybe you will find that loophole and cling to it in hopes of a good nights sleep.
I can't say for sure how many there are but it seems there is a lot of people in denial. The question is: Just how long will the looming tower of death stay only looming?

wow!!! i ask a question less than 24 hours ago to see what my options are. now that i know i plan to go about handling the issue in a responsible manner as i just stated. how am i circumventing the issue??? how am i in denial???? i acknowlege the problem and will handle it. was it not worth the 2 minute effort to make a post to see if possibly the town and/or power company could foot some of the bill? was it really that unreasonable for me to ask the question???? do you understand how a forum works? people come with questions looking for answers. i got my answer. take a deep breathe there treeman.

 

[Garden Of Eden]

hey jeff, why are you thanking everyone??? is this your issue? is this your problem? what is your stake in this? consensus here seems to be this is my responsibility, but even so, some posts indicate the power company will remove for me. this is why i made the post - to see what the popular opinion is and to see what suggestions others may have. i am home owner trying to see if i am able to avoid a $1000 tree removal fee. how "silly" of me...... your "common sense" probably tells you to drop a grand without assessing your alternatives, and good for you if you are in position to do that. i however, am not. i am trying to do the responsible thing by acknowlegding the hazard and getting opinions on how to rectify it. but like you said, common sense is not so common. do us all a favor and keep your condescending remarks to yourself. you added zero value to this thread. thanks and "have a blessed day"...

to all others, i do appreciate your input and thanks to you i will now plan out my next steps and do the right thing.

Wow. I was thanking everyone for helping. Gratitude is a rare thing now a days and I was just showing some, as the experts here often get none. To me it matters not where it comes from.

As far as my involvement, you're right, it's not my tree, or even in my state, however, I believe that issues like this are kinda public. I choose not to make too many things problems, as they accumulate more stress than is needed. So no, it's not my problem. Other than praying for you and your situation, I've no stake in this. However, some people are clearly trying to help and get involved and either you don't want them to be, or don't see them. Since I'm 90% sure you just are overlooking them, but will read my entire post, Stihl-O-Matic would like to know where in CT you are. Perhaps he can help?

As far as my common sense goes, it's kind of a mute point, as I've never actually been in this exact situation.

I actually mean it when I say have a blessed day, to me, it's not so much a joke.

Have one, its a choice.

Jeff

 

[linckeil]

thanks jeff, but when you make comments about a post being "silly" or lacking "common sense" it is clear what your intentions are. i'll pray for you too.

and i sent stihl o matic a PM. i am overlooking no one and as i've said 3 times now, am taking steps toward rectifying this situation. i hope all offended by the question i posed are able to put it behind them.

thanks again to all. this has been an experience for me.

 

[xtm]

Responsibility for such potential hazards is different in each town. In fact, I am partially responsible for removing hazardous trees along utility easements and growing within the grassy part of the R.O.W. out by the road.

The electric utility regularly keeps trees trimmed away from my power lines, but I am responsible for tree removal within the easement - unless they deem it a threat to the lines. I've never seen them declare a tree to be such a threat, so around here they just happily prune away - even on spindly dying willows!

Most landowners pay taxes on the strips of property included in easements and the R.O.W. to the center of the street. Someone has to pay the tax on that property, so all that land is considered their ownership for billing - and liability - purposes. Easements and R.O.W.s just provide for egress and regress.

Years ago, a cottonwood volunteered up in the R.O.W. ditch beside the road out front, but I let it grow because it nicely shaded the street and the front of my place. Eventually, it became gigantic, with a pair of co-dominant trunks. Last year, a storm blew through and split it along the union between the two trunks - creating a potential hazard for travelers along the road. I had visions of it landing on a school bus full of elementary school kids! Because of the size, I pressured the city to come take it down so I wouldn't have to fool with it myself. Short version - They basically told me to go to hell and I had to get a permit to block off the road and take it down myself. If the tree was too close to or buckling the pavement, they would've done the work - but not in this case.

xtm

 

[Strikermike]

Just call the power company. Unless they have changed there policy. they will remove it free of charge. A few years ago a friend of mine had the same scenario an old oak tree about 4 feet DBH. All she did was notify them and they removed it free of charge.

 

[linckeil]

so i called the power company yesterday. they are sending someone out this week to assess the tree and if they deem it a hazard, they will remove it for me, free of charge. not only that, but they'll leave me the firewood too.

the woman i spoke with actually thanked me for notifying her. she said most homeowners do not inspect or simply ignore hazards like this and the power company would perfer to remove the tree now than have it take out the lines in a storm.

not such a "silly, common sense-lacking" question to pose after all...

thanks to all with the constructive replies.

 

[matt9923]

so i called the power company yesterday. they are sending someone out this week to assess the tree and if they deem it a hazard, they will remove it for me, free of charge. not only that, but they'll leave me the firewood too.

the woman i spoke with actually thanked me for notifying her. she said most homeowners do not inspect or simply ignore hazards like this and the power company would perfer to remove the tree now than have it take out the lines in a storm.

not such a "silly, common sense-lacking" question to pose after all...

thanks to all with the constructive replies.

Nice. I know a lineman and 1/2 his job is tree removal.

 

[treemandan]

so i called the power company yesterday. they are sending someone out this week to assess the tree and if they deem it a hazard, they will remove it for me, free of charge. not only that, but they'll leave me the firewood too.

the woman i spoke with actually thanked me for notifying her. she said most homeowners do not inspect or simply ignore hazards like this and the power company would perfer to remove the tree now than have it take out the lines in a storm.

not such a "silly, common sense-lacking" question to pose after all...

thanks to all with the constructive replies.

Great, now you are gettin R dun, glad I helped.

 

[xtm]

IMO, you are very fortunate that your electric utility takes a pro-active approach to removing potential hazards. The one around here seems to operate under a crisis-management policy - pruning after a storm comes through. I've never seen 'em working in my area until after we've had some lines knocked down and problem areas are ID'd.

That telephone call saved you some $$$ and a lot of trouble!

xtm

 

[Dalmatian90]

It and the damage it causes when it goes over is 100% on you!

That is not the practice in most, if not all, of Connecticut regarding powerlines and roadways. As long as you're not acting recklessly, CL&P is not going to charge for it. It may not meet the strict letter of the law of what CL&P could charge (I don't know for sure), but if that's the law it's not their practice to do so. No town up in my area charges for clearing the debris.

Recklessly is when you pull up and see Harry Homeowner giving you a sheepish grin, and you see a chainsaw, a cut tree, and a cable leading to Peter Pickup's truck. Which the tree pulled like a toy wagon as it fell in the opposite direction and across the primaries. Still one of the funniest scenes I ever saw in 20 years with the fire company when I pulled up there!*

To give a practical example of how forgiving CL&P is, I had a sycamore that died and needed to be taken out by a crane due to it's precarious position and lean. While saving for that job, it snapped during a storm. Pulled the service wires off the poles along my driveway and out of the weatherhead.

It was located about 400' from the centerline of the road, and about 175' from the transformer -- I have a long driveway.

I called CL&P to disconnect the house service at the transformer figuring I would need to call an electrician in the morning to repair the damage to the service.

The linemen cleared the tree (had to borrow my chainsaw as theirs died ), re-strung the house service on the poles along the driveway, and re-connected the service. Have a nice night, no charge.

Had they come instead and found me grinning with a cut in the base of the tree, I could've expected a bill for being reckless.

CL&P, and the other utilities, will charge if you for motor vehicle accidents that take out their property. That can run into a pretty penny if it becomes one where you've bought a pole, a transformer, power co., phone co., and cable co. all on overtime plus a couple of state troopers on o/t directing traffic around the mess.

=================
* Typical procedure in my area:
Big tree across road: Fire company will chainsaw it to re-open the road to traffic, Highway Department will come by next business day with a chipper to clean up the remains.
Limb / Small Tree & wires: Power company will cut up the limb.
Large Tree & Wires: Power company will cut up just enough to restore power, and the Town Highway Department will cut up the rest of the tree. Usually the Fire Company will get there first, and let the dispatcher know it's big enough that CL&P will want Town Highway.

 

[Dalmatian90]

Most landowners pay taxes on the strips of property included in easements and the R.O.W. to the center of the street.

That varies by state.

The really simple answer is in Connecticut you don't, your property line ends where the road "ROW" begins.

Old roads originally created as true rights-of-way across the property of another have become public property but revert to the ownership of adjacent property owners if discontinued.

New roads (since around 1900 or so) are created as fee simple, and even if the town or state discontinues them it still owns the underlying real estate unless they do something to dispose of it. Lots of nuances in the laws though.

 

[Rftreeman]

this may have been mention already but call you local utility company and have them check it out, they may take it down and let you clean it up to keep it from taking out the lines.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Responsibility for such potential hazards is different in each town.

Yep. Varies from town to town, county to county state to state. Which is why statements like this are risky:

Most landowners pay taxes on the strips of property included in easements and the R.O.W. to the center of the street.

Some places. Others, not. Had a place in California where that was true. It was legally "my property" to the center of the street. I paid taxes on it, I was responsible for the trees between the sidewalk and the street. Unless I wanted to cut them down, of course. THEN they belonged to the city, and cutting them without approval was a crime.

Where I am now, my property stops about 10 feet or so from the street. I mow the grass there, but it's not mine.


Different places, different laws.

 

[wigglesworth]

I had three of my own trees fall down in the road this January from the ice storm we were hit with. The state not only cleaned them up, but also fell 4 more that were potential hazards that were heavy leaning to the road. I wasn't out 1 dime.

 

[Straightgrain]

Do what the government does to us....you mentioned that it was a hazard? Are you a certified and celebrated arborist? Are you a biologist? Are you a scientist? etc. Using the accepted norm; a homowner knows nothing. You ever read "patunia finds" a book to a kid? .....This goose finds a book and a pair of glasses on a stump in the fram yards. she puts the glasses on and carrys around the book. instantly everyone in the farm yard started asking her questions about this and that etc. Get my point? Just becasue a homeowner said it is bad, is aint bad becasue he aint a certified professional......you are a ward of the government or a peasant as they will call us in the future.
In Oregon, where ever the tree lands is who now owns it with the expences. I lost a 150' GDF two winters ago, took out the power for 11 days. No charge, I got an awesome view of MT Hood.

I would think that an urban area? in CT would have a tree club or some kind of protection non-profit that you would have to ask first before cutting the tree anyway. If there is, call em. If you are a homeowner, call or write "Rogahhhh Cook from This old house".

 

[wavefreak]

Where I'm living, if the power lines are threatened the power company will take the tree down for free. Might at least be worth a call to them.