Why 5K lbs?

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Diesel JD

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I just got Jepson's Tree Climbers Companion. In it, he states that the ANSI standard requires that all rope have a minimum breaking strength of 5400lbs, and all snaps, biners etc used for life support 5K lbs. I will admit that my 8mm Prussik Cord only tests at 3380lbs. Am I putting my life at risk by using something like this? The reasoning on my part is that a rope's safe work load is said to be 1/10 its breaking strength unless it is subjected to dynamic loads....Most of us, myself included aren't going to be close to 338lbs, with gear and everything. I agree that a climbing rope needs to be 5400lbs at least, in fact I like closer to 7K, but why the Prussik Cord on a lanyard for insatnce? It usually isn't subject to dynamic loads? I'm not trying to justify dangerous work practices adn I doubt anyone will advise me to break ANSI standards but just trying to learn the reasoning behind it...is it purely for havinga margin of safety/error? Thanks,
J.D.
 
I believe with the prussic the cord is doubled ,therefore the weight capacity is doubled exceeding the 5k rule
 
rope diameter

Here's a thought for you. Most all of us have nicked a rope or lanyard at some point or another with a saw. I hate to say it, but I really believe that MOST, but not all of us climbers have. An 8mm line has much less room for forgiveness if the unthinkable occurs. I'm not saying "Let's all think in terms of us cutting our ropes" But I am saying "Let's not skimp too much on rope diameter for the sheer fact that accidents do happen". Hey, I had my saw bounce back and tear some threads in my climbing line not too long ago and I was able to lanyard in, bring a new line up the tree, tie in again, then trash my damaged line immeadiately. An 8mm line might not have had enough forgiveness in it to allow me to learn from that lesson. Good luck and safe climbing
 
I have seen a lot of this recently where climbers are trying to get fancier and lighter with small diameter prussic cord and lanyards. I am of the belief that it is better to be on the heavier safer side. You probably don't want to figure out you were doing it the wrong way (on the way down!)
 
Those of us from the manila rope generation can share zero stories about natural fiber ropes breaking from a climber's weight. Even using Arborplex, 5.4k# breaking strength, has plenty of strength.

The odd, 5,400# breaking strength was based on the diameter of A-plex, the first synthetic climbing rope developed specifically for arbos.

Don't forget that you're climbing on a doubled, DdRT-system, so each leg supports [theoretically] half of your load. You also have to consider shock loading to your whole climbing system, from the tie in point to your harness.
 
i think generally that 'software' is higher tensile requiremeant than hardware; to allow some for more wear from ropes than krabs etc. i think 5k is a good, round number from other disciplines; that predates such specifications in tree work and became natural standard for hardware.

Most uf us climb on a DdRT, that has 1/2 bodyweight on each leg of support; then the 'newer' friction hitches that pull from both ends place 1/2 of the 1/2 bodyweight on each leg of the prussic/ cord. i think of it as a Tautline or Blake's being tensile of weakest part of cord X the tensile loss of a choked eye to eye sling, bent vs. a VT, Distel, TK, Icicle etc. being of the strength rating of the tensile of the eye to eye sling X Basket, bent. If you notice on round and eye to eye industrial slings, there are 3 ratings. One for linear, straight eye to eye, un bent tensile; thus the tensile of the device. A sling that chokes it's own self back to secure is ~80% less that sling tensile; even though they both have 1 leg of load support. The choke position bends the weight bearing Standing Part, leveraging the force in the line/ becomes a multiplier above 1; so tensile potential of line is 'consumed more' than if multiplier is 1; unbent line.

A Basket position proper offers 2 unbent legs of support; or Linear / Base Tensile X 200%; a multiplier of .5 X Load. Even though after each of these base grips, the cord/line is then bent further towards saddle; entering another multiplier against potential tensile capacity(?). You can't escape the effect of the previous multiplier that loading both ends in Basket is 2x Linear/Base Tensile, and Choke(bending self with self) is .8X Linear; so Basket (Prussic)is 2.5X as strong as Choke(Tautline/Blake's) at this point in rough calculations. Also, the smaller diameter cords, can have a lower tensile percentage loss from the tight bight around a krab and host line too; if their stiffness X height leverages tension in the line less than same for larger diameter rope(for friction hitch) choice. 3/8" Flat Tenex has fair tensile and little tensile loss on bend around host line or krab for friction hitches IMLHO. Some recon stuff is pretty thin line, but single use. i think we need stuff beyond single use diameters, just for wear etc.

But, i think you can be more confident here, i think most that have passed this way had similar questions/ doubts at some point. Besides, some of the tensile numbers come out unexpectedly in your favor; except if you find yourself running the saw in your lap!
 
Tom Dunlap said:
The odd, 5,400# breaking strength was based on the diameter of A-plex, the first synthetic climbing rope developed specifically for arbos.

:bowdown: Cool little piece of info, Thanks Tom!:bowdown:
 
Good info. It had occured to me that the 5400lbs was exactly Arbor Plex's breaking strength. That's what I used to climb on. Now I climb with the 3-strand New England Safety Blue. Yes it has a lot of friction but it has a higher breaking strength, and it looks like good rope. Maybe next time I buy one though I will take everyone's advice adn get a 16 strand. I think after reading all this, I feel safe using the prussik cord I have since as mentioned, its doubled So with the 3380 breaking strength, that should turn into 6760, a number more t my liking.
 
Another explanation for the 5400# is that we consider the safe working load to be 1/10 of breaking strength or 540#. The average knot weakens the rope by 1/2. So you are now at 270#, which catches most climbers. Like Tom said, I never saw a climbing rope break in the manila days. Did see one used as a rigging line break on a light pull. Found out later that it had been laid over the top of a garden tractor battery in the shop. Fumes weakened it.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Those of us from the manila rope generation can share zero stories about natural fiber ropes breaking from a climber's weight. Even using Arborplex, 5.4k# breaking strength, has plenty of strength.

The odd, 5,400# breaking strength was based on the diameter of A-plex, the first synthetic climbing rope developed specifically for arbos.

Don't forget that you're climbing on a doubled, DdRT-system, so each leg supports [theoretically] half of your load. You also have to consider shock loading to your whole climbing system, from the tie in point to your harness.
holy manilla!
 

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