spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
relative to round grinders?
Why do square grinders cost so much
- Thread starter spacemule
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BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
I imagine round grinders out sell square ones 100:1 or more. Volume of sales lead to lower price.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
With the faster cutting speed of square, wouldn't it seem logical that the difference in demand is directly attributable to price? Is this not a catch 22?
HuskyPete
ArboristSite Member
When I was at Madsen's a couple of weeks ago I asked them the same question. They said it is easier to fit a square peg into a round hole than it is to fit a round peg into a square hole. I had never looked at it like that before. Now it makes sense to me, and I'm surprised they don't cost more! Boy, you can learn something every day around here.
joatmon
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Stihl Hyde
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So they can get ya when you try to find a grinder
deezlfan
Meadow River Lumber Co. 6
Since each of these processes requires you to line up four contact surfaces, One is no harder to do than the other. I fail to see how it relates to making or grinding chain.
Boogieman142
ArboristSite Guru
as an incentitive to learn how to file square.
because of lack of compitition ... there's only Silvey and Simington currently offering new square grinders. Simington keeps such a low profile, most don't know they are still in business. no web site to get info... their business mostly comes from local purchasers.
for the longest time I though Silvey was the only mfg offering square grinders. as for demand... IMHO the high price has chased most away.
look in the valorabe racing cut thread to find all sorts of folks interest in buying a cheap file guide for square chain. unfortunately it's been a year since the product was announced. it's still vaporware.
for the longest time I though Silvey was the only mfg offering square grinders. as for demand... IMHO the high price has chased most away.
look in the valorabe racing cut thread to find all sorts of folks interest in buying a cheap file guide for square chain. unfortunately it's been a year since the product was announced. it's still vaporware.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
Square grinders are more expensive because not everybody in the world loves square ground chain 
opcorn: I don't know one dealer in Australia that has ever even stocked it (I'm sure someone has somewhere though? I tried a loop once but from memory I got it from the US I think? It was blunt in 5 minutes)
Maybe the US and parts of Europe are the only square grinder customers in the world?
Supply and demand and all that jazz...
opcorn: I don't know one dealer in Australia that has ever even stocked it (I'm sure someone has somewhere though? I tried a loop once but from memory I got it from the US I think? It was blunt in 5 minutes)Maybe the US and parts of Europe are the only square grinder customers in the world?
Supply and demand and all that jazz...
B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
I do think Silvey's prices on grinders, esp the top square grinders are a real price gouge. $2000 for a Pro Sharp? Ripoff.
Having said that, for me buying the PS was money very well spent and changed my life.
And it is cheap when I consider it gives me free quiet horsepower (and much less cutting time) for all my 3/8 saws for many years. Per saw per month is probably works out to a $1.
And grinders save a lot of money over files.
My biggest issue with the grinders like the ProSharp is that they are crude and primitive. Have not really advanced for many years (no market).
Turn the job over to the Japanese or the Germans and for that kind of money you would end up with a machine that was much easier to use and far better quality and precision.
Having said that, for me buying the PS was money very well spent and changed my life.
And it is cheap when I consider it gives me free quiet horsepower (and much less cutting time) for all my 3/8 saws for many years. Per saw per month is probably works out to a $1.
And grinders save a lot of money over files.
My biggest issue with the grinders like the ProSharp is that they are crude and primitive. Have not really advanced for many years (no market).
Turn the job over to the Japanese or the Germans and for that kind of money you would end up with a machine that was much easier to use and far better quality and precision.
Nothing but supply and demand. The grinders themselves are very simple.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
I've never seen a square grinder, and have never seen square ground chain in person. How hard would it be to make modifications to something like an Oregon grinder to allow square grinding? Do you think there would be a market for a conversion kit?
won't say that it's not possible to convert an oregon grinder into a square one. but it would be pretty difficult at best.
the angles involved are completely different. that said... attachments are available for Stihl USG grinder to convert to Square. but those are super rare. there might be 2-3 folks on AS that's got the square stihl attachment. plus they only fit on stihl USG grinder, which is pretty pricey too.
IMHO demand has always been there for square chains. just that the combined barrier to entry of $1,000 for a base square grinder and square chains go dull very quickly when cutting dirty wood. solution of course is don't cut dirty wood with square and be ready to invest $1,000+.
yes hand filing square chain is difficult to master, can be done. what no one can get around is the extra time hand filing square chain takes. 15-20 minutes per chain (not referring to touching up). some are faster but not by much. no way I've got patience to hand file say 5-6 chains.
hopefully if and when a hand filing system for square materializes at an affordable price point. a load more folks will experience the joy of using nice sharp square chains.
until then... if you don't have $1,000 ... the only other way is get lucky and find a used square grinder. someone posted on AS about selling a simington 450... I was the lucky one that got to him first. $275 shipped to me. don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen again
by the way that $275 was just a start.... ended up spending $2k+ on all the support tools, bulk chains ($235 per roll) and a silvey round grinder.
the angles involved are completely different. that said... attachments are available for Stihl USG grinder to convert to Square. but those are super rare. there might be 2-3 folks on AS that's got the square stihl attachment. plus they only fit on stihl USG grinder, which is pretty pricey too.
IMHO demand has always been there for square chains. just that the combined barrier to entry of $1,000 for a base square grinder and square chains go dull very quickly when cutting dirty wood. solution of course is don't cut dirty wood with square and be ready to invest $1,000+.
yes hand filing square chain is difficult to master, can be done. what no one can get around is the extra time hand filing square chain takes. 15-20 minutes per chain (not referring to touching up). some are faster but not by much. no way I've got patience to hand file say 5-6 chains.
hopefully if and when a hand filing system for square materializes at an affordable price point. a load more folks will experience the joy of using nice sharp square chains.
until then... if you don't have $1,000 ... the only other way is get lucky and find a used square grinder. someone posted on AS about selling a simington 450... I was the lucky one that got to him first. $275 shipped to me. don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen again
by the way that $275 was just a start.... ended up spending $2k+ on all the support tools, bulk chains ($235 per roll) and a silvey round grinder.
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HuskyPete
ArboristSite Member
Go to Race Saws and you will find threads where people have modified Stihl or Oregon bench mount hand grinders to file square chain. I plan to do it but haven't put the time or effort into it yet.
Square grinders are more expensive because not everybody in the world loves square ground chain
Blunt? You mean Blount, don,t you?
tdi-rick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Blunt? You mean Blount, don,t you?
No, I'd reckon he means blunt (good play on words
)I'm guessing it became round ground pretty quickly.
Often wondered how square would go in what we have to cut here. Looks like Matt has answered it.
Methinks it's a race only proposition in these parts.
You only have to see the sparks fly in clean timber to understand why semi and chipper outsells chisel by some untold amount here.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
No, I'd reckon he means blunt (good play on words
I'm guessing it became round ground pretty quickly.
Often wondered how square would go in what we have to cut here. Looks like Matt has answered it.
Methinks it's a race only proposition in these parts.
You only have to see the sparks fly in clean timber to understand why semi and chipper outsells chisel by some untold amount here.
Yeah Rick
It certainly wasn't green clean timber I was cutting. Square cut like a banshee for, um, 2 minutes You're right though mate. There is definately a reason why you can hardly buy even full chisel around here. I have some for personal use but don't keep any in stock. I'd get a bad reputation pretty quick if I started recommending full chisel around here - I'd quadruple my file sales though!
