Will felling and leaving the tree for a couple of weeks help dry it out?

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The difference might be most noticed in the first week of the drying time.

The trunk still has moisture it will be sending to thousands of leaves. The leaves are still trying to produce sugars, meant for the roots. Till they completely withered they would be drawing moisture from the xylem and producing sugars. At some point, the tree would shut things off, go into dormancy and wait for the roots to send more moisture and nutrients. After that it would probaly be trying to store its reserves, dropping the leaves.

Which has more surface area to lose its water from in the first week, the thousands of leaves hanging in the wind or the stack of rounds on the ground ?

It is debatable that in a years time the difference of waiting a week to buck and split would mean much. In 3 months time it might be enough difference to have burnable firewood sooner.

Untill it was tested thoroughly and the results accurately checked we won't know. While someone was at it, they might check to see if it dried faster after being split and stacked instead of just cut and stacked in rounds. And the difference between stored under a roof just getting exposure to wind against stacked in the open uncovered to solve the "wetting the wood" myth. Then be sure to note the BTU's from each of the different stacks to see where the greatest gains and fewest losses are made.

Untill it is proven either way it is a debatable point. Get it in early and get in more than you needed last winter.
 
personally, i never leave a tree. once it's down....i cut it up asap. i may not split it right away, but the last thing i'm worrying about is if a round is going to be 50 pounds or 48 pounds.

leaves do whither almost immediately once the tree is down, and i doubt they're going to extract enough "water" to even tell the difference in weight.

like Basso says: just git r done and stop being scientific about cutting a tree up.


There might be something to it, or more than we think. I have read that a mature hardwood tree loses over 40 gallons a day through evaporation. 40 gallons is 320 pounds. If a mature tree were to make a cord of wood and that cord was to drop 320 pounds in a few days how much is left before it is considered seasoned ?


If my income depended on producing sellable wood quickly, the difference between 2-3 months storage could mean a bigger operation. As it is, my own heat is my first concern, after that it makes some cash for us around Christmas and after the first of the year. I try to get mine in by April.

I'll still go with - get it in early and get in more than you needed last year.
 
Read my post again #16. There has been tests done. If you want dry wood fast cut it to short lengths asap.
 
IMO I think the most important part of drying firewood is to get it cut into at least 2 foot lengths and stacked and covered, splitting it doesn't help drying by much. I figure I can split it at my leisure, the main thing is get it cut. If you are in a pinch to burn green wood not having enough drying time, cut it into short 1 foot lengths or shorter will greatly improve drying time. Wood drys from the cut ends, just as you see the water boil out of it from the ends when you burn green wood. Think of the grain in wood like a piece of celery.

I was on the net last year looking for info on wood drying times and found this info from Firewood Ratings and Info
based on data from: U.S. Forest Products Laboratory

There are people who insist that wood should be dried (seasoned) for at least one or two years. Experimental evidence has established that this is nearly always unnecessary, as long as the pieces of wood are cut to length and stacked. Natural airflows through the stack, and particularly through the end cut cells of the pieces of wood themselves, dries them sooner than that. Experimental evidence has established that one-foot long cut pieces generally dry to acceptable levels in just two or three months. Two-foot long cut pieces take about six or seven months for similar acceptability. Four-foot long cut pieces DO require at least a year. Split pieces of wood tend to dry slightly faster than full diameter logs, but again by minimal amounts.

Associated with this, covering the woodpile with a tarp slightly improves this, but probably not enough to make the expense of a tarp worthwhile, except in a climate where rain and very high humidity is common.

There appears to be no value in drying firewood more than about nine months.
If wood is stacked in four-foot or longer lengths, the drying process is greatly slowed. In other words, if wood is cut to four-foot length and stacked, for nine months, and then cut to shorter burning length just before use, it will probably not burn well because it is still to wet (green).

Read my post again #16. There has been tests done. If you want dry wood fast cut it to short lengths asap.

Oh , in post #16, I didn't see any mention of felling it and letting the leaves wither, drawing moisture from the trunk. I guess I missed the part too where you provided a link for refference to
based on data from: U.S. Forest Products Laboratory
.

I recall reading an article along these lines, possibly even this same one, where the findings were posted, but not their data. I would liked to have seen some Moisture Content charts Charts showing the weekly measured differences over a 1 year or 2 year period for each of their test samples.

Not all wood is equal. Some is straight grained, some cross grained and others are twist grained. On wood that isn't straight grained when it gets split it would expose more capilliary ends for faster drying. With straight grained wood, some ripping and tearing occurs as it is split which should also expose more capillary ends for faster drying. How much faster ? There is not data to indicate. You did mention that it is marginal. races are won and lost over the difference of thenths or hundredths of seconds. I'm not going to split hairs over seconds or minutes difference over the course of 3-9 months.

Trees transpire water through their leaves during the course of the day. The first time I read this the figure was 40 gallons or more per day. A quick internet search showed this amount to be low by todays standard. A few sites showed A mature Beech tree to transpire 70 gallons per day. Some other species on different sites showed upto 140 gallons per day of water lost to transpiration. Lets just use the Beech as an example. 70 gallons per day over 3 days while the leaves wilted is approx 200 gallons of water. That is 1,600 punds lost from a tree that might produce one cord. From this site A green cord of beech weighs 4900 pounds. From this site a seasoned cord of Beech weighs 3,757 pounds. If it needs to lose 1143 pounds of moisture to be considered seasoned and it could lose up to 1600 pounds in 3 days, by my thinking letting it set 2 days at 560 pounds lost per day and this puppy is prime for the woodstove.

We All should know this isnt true. At some point the tree shuts down and stops the flow to the leaves during stress. Whether it is an hour or a day or 3 days I havent a clue and don't know of anyone that actually does. But If it lost 70 gallons in the first day before it reacted to its stress half of the seasoning time is already done. On day 2 if it lost 1/3 as much we are getting closer to being halfway there in less than a week. The laws of diminishing returns comes into play quickly here. The leaves shut down and drop off. The capillary action stops. The trees design is to carry water up the trunk and sap back down holding moisture in the wood. After the capillary action has stopped processing it into firewood exposes the ends allowing the drying process to finish.

I'm a skeptic. I want to be convinced by someone or myself, instead of just accepting a statement as fact. A recent blowdown processed into firewood 6 days after it fell was ready much sooner than expected. It was in good health and produced over a cord and a half of good firewood. Nothing I could think of before this thread could be attributed to it seasoning out in half the time. I'm not conviced entirely but the evidence as I see it is pointing to the leaves being on and fully process after day seven.

For reasons already stated, I do think the wood will be dryer with the leaves left on for 3 -7 days before processing it. Dryer than it would be seven days after if it was felled, cut, split and stacked in one day. I'm not saying this is a fact, just my opinion.

I dont think that felling a tree and coming back a year later to get seasoned wood is going to be a realistic expectation. The trees design is to store and transfer water. If it has no place to go .... it stays wet inside.

This is not how I cut firewood. I cut it early and process it as I go along. I cant leave trees laying for days at a time along the fenceline or they disappear.
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I would think bucking it into 16-24 inch lengths would dry it faster since being it is getting dried into the sides of these bucked sections. I am like the other guy that said if he cut it it gets bucked split asap. I still think if you buck it it will dry faster. Just my opinion but you know the ole saying hahahaha.
 
Pacman, I dont blame you, any new idea that breaks from the norm isn't going to be easily accepted till it is proven and the results are easily repeatable. I am a skeptic and not fully convinced which way might be better. What I thought I knew about seasoning has worked for years the same for me as everyone else. If there is a faster way without kiln drying it I am interested in finding out about it. I'm not saying either way is right or which way might be best. It works for me to fell, buck and split it all in the same day then putting it in a covered stack to dry for several months. This way I know with unwavering certainty that it is going to be ready. If leaving the leaves on one week will take off one month (or more) of drying time that means I might be able to move more wood for sale through my sideyard and driveway faster. I generally run out of places to stack and dry it before I run out of year to cut it. And like now I have run out of wood to sell for the moment because I didnt have enough space to store more stacks of wood long enough to be sure it is going to be dry in time.

I know the wood I got from that one blowdown surprised me. Surprised me that it was ready so quick. It fell in early June, was cut on June 14th and made little smoke with nice heat in early August. I even pulled a few more pieces to be sure. I hadnt paid any attention before. I just cut it, split it as we went along and moved on. I wanted some semi-wet wood for a mosquito fire one night and grabbed these splits because it was what I was walking past when I thought of it. It should have been wetter. It didnt even sizzle. The split side took right off and it was what kept the fire going.

It will take several more times for me to try it before I am convinced. I cut a small Elm last month and left it till the leaves crumbled before getting to the rest of it. It shouldnt be ready till next year. But I will be pulling samples out of it come Spring and through the Summer just see what it is going to be like. For now I will stick with what I know is true and works. If it reduces the drying time one month and I can leave it lay a week before finishing it what is there to lose ?

Any wood I cut right now I wouldnt expect to be ready before mid-Febuary. By that time nearly everybody is going to have in what they should need. I dont know that I'd benefit from it having to wait that long to sell it. If it was ready by mid-January ... OH yeah ! Money in the bank and a brighter year ahead for us.

LOL I know the old saying and aint none of them any prettier than the next one.
 
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But my experience in the woods providing softwood firewood for the members of the public who are older and disability is that if you want:
The wood to be dry, light and split easy
you buck it as much as possible.

Caveats on letting hardwood sit without being split.

If a tree has just died, it will dry out slower if cut down than if left standing.
Unless you buck ut up.

Look at how moisture flows through a tree. Up and down along the length of the cells. Not out through the bark.

Cut open those cells and the moisture goes fast.
 
I think I'm with you KsWoodsMan. I started this thread because I had a hair-brain idea that letting the tree "wither" might make it a hair lighter plus season a little quicker. Since I have to remove many more trees and I can drop them a lot faster than I can buck, split, and remove them, I think I'm going to drop a few and let them wither a while as I'm working on the others. The only down side I see to this is the ground being a little more cluttered.

So will the tree season faster if it's allowed to "wither" for a week rather than just bucking it the same day? I don't know the answer, but it does make sense to me that since the tree is still trying to pump water to the leaves after it has been dropped, it does sound logical that this natural and organic water removal/movement (withering) should work a little fast than evaporation from just bucking the tree... at least for the first few days. I'm not spilting on site, so it's basically withering vs. bucking. As was mentioned before regarding the seasoning, it probably won't matter much 6 months from now if the tree was bucked today or next week, but letting the tree wither for a few days before that bucking could make a little more impact. I guess the way I see it, I don't have much to lose by going this route.
 
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I guess I really wasn't talking about the subject at hand. I get my logs delivered in 8 foot length, I don't cut down my own tree's. I agree that it might make sense to let them sit on the ground and let the leaves suck out moisture for a week or so, it can't hurt. But if I let my loggers load of 8 footers sit in the pile whole they just don't dry. My main objective is to get them all cut up into about 18" then worry about splitting them.
 
I have seen it stated that if the tree has leaves, it is best to let the leaves finish out if dry wood is the objective. The reasoning is as stated above that the leaves aspirate the moisture into the air. There is a lot more surface area to the leaves than the cut ends of a bucked up tree.

Sometimes it is not practical to do this. I think you will find that by letting the leaves die you will not have the water running out of the end grain when you are bucking it up. If you can cut it down one weekend and buck it up the next without it disappearing or being in someones way then do it. A lot of times cleanup needs to happen immediately.

None of this applies of course if the tree is dormant during the winter. This seems to be when I have the most time to cut them down.

Don
 
I'm not argueing for or against any certain way of drying , simply voicing some thoughts on the question. It sparked an interest of my own. The subject has come up before and was shot down immediately because it wasn't the accepted method.

Coldfront : I can see the point to processing whole logs when delivered. You are spot on with that. Otherwise they might never cure or season.

Smokechase II : You are probably right. Since softwoods dont lose as much moisture through the needles/scales compared to leaves on a hardwood. Right agaain that the moisture doesnt exit through the bark as fast as it does from the end grain. So opening them up sooner, bucking to length and stacking means faster drying time for softwoods.

Doing the testing correctly to find the absolutely fastest way to dry hardwood would be a tredious , time consuming task. The # of possible ways to dry wood that may or may or may not be effective can be put in a post but to time consuming to read. Testing would have to be done on multiple species cut during several different times of the year. It would also need to be done in several different locations of the contenent. No two areas have exactly the same weather or humidity which could vary the results.



Go with what works best for you for drying your heating wood. The accepted method is to process it immediately, getting it into a stack ASAP. Everybody agrees ( I hope ) to keep it off the ground so it isnt wicking up ground moisture. Some will say 6 months is enough or a year or 2 years depending on the species. This is all long standing, good practice for firewood. Your mileage may vary.
 
Putting this to the test...

I was originally thinking it would be too difficult to semi-scientifically test this, but the more I think about it, maybe not.

Test:

Using a tree that's fairly uniform in diameter at the base (maybe 6" to 10" in dia.), drop tree on day one and cut a few 16" billets off the trunk end of the tree. Immediately label and record the weight of the cut billets. After one week of withering, cut a 16" billet off the end which was exposed to air for the week and disregard this sample. Then cut and record the weight of a few more billets freshly cut from the withered tree. As this point you could split one of the billets from each as a sub group to show how much splitting contributes to the seasoning process, if you wanted to prove what we already know.

Over the course of the next year or two, each sample (which would be stored in the same manor) can be weighed at regular time intervals and the data plotted. At some point the wood should all reach an equilibrium.

I suspect if withering the tree did have any significant effect, that you should see it in the curve or shape of the curve as the wood seasons.

Thoughts or better ideas???
 
Rather than weigh the billets and try to compare them in that fashion, why not just use a quality moisture meter and take several readings as time goes by?

As you move up the tree, the billets will get smaller and lighter as the diameter shrinks. The weight drops at an increasing, nonlinear rate. A log with twice the diameter of another the same length will have four times the weight.
 
Rather than weigh the billets and try to compare them in that fashion, why not just use a quality moisture meter and take several readings as time goes by?

As you move up the tree, the billets will get smaller and lighter as the diameter shrinks. The weight drops at an increasing, nonlinear rate. A log with twice the diameter of another the same length will have four times the weight.

The meter I have only goes to 35%, all samples will no doubt be above that. Also, the only way to get accurate readings with a meter is to split the wood open at the time of each reading... which kind of defeats the purpose here.

I realize the size and weight of the log will change as you work up the tree, that's why each billet would have to be directly compared to itself over time rather than each other. If there's a significant delta in the first week (air dried vs withering), I would think it would show in the curve when weight is plotted over time. As each slowly seasons, wetness should initially drop off fairly quickly and slow as it gets toward equilibrium.
 
Water loss

Very interesting discussion. I would think the water loss would be in the small stuff (under one inch) and would not really dry out what you would use for firewood.
 
Wet1 : I follow the idea you have here. That you would record the weight of each piece as it is cut from the tree, wether it is cut the moment it hits the ground or the following week. If you can get two samples that are very close in volume to start with and of nearly equal dimensions for the test. You could consider them to be of equal or very nearly equal weight at the beginning. The lengths and diameters would need to be ther same. Once cut from the trees the exposed surface diameter would need to be the same also so as not to skew the results in one direction or the other. It might also be feasible to take samples from a limb also. To test the smaller portions of the wood that wouldnt require splitting before use.

If the samples have to be split for moisture readings, they could be wrapped with cellophane leaving the cut end exposed so only moisture was allowed to escape there. Or a hole could be drilled into the center of the wood and a cork or stopper used to plug the hole. The cut end of the withered sample could be covered with celophane to keep moisture from exiting except to the leaves. If this was done you might not have to cut a full 16" from the end to get to wood that was only affected by the vascular action and not by evaporation.

I was thinking along the line of 6 trees grown side by side. All cut on the same day. Three cut and processed immediately and the others left to lay and wither. I think you found a good way to test the theory without finding 6 similar trees on the same stand of ground. And weighing them before you start.

bushinspector : If a tree is designed to move water from the trunk to the smaller branches and then to the leaves, wouldn't the trunk would have to run out of water first before the leaves reacted to the drought ? In theory the small branches would be the wettest part of the tree when the leaves dropped off. Maybe the trunk shuts off the flow instead of just running out first. I doubt the mechanism is that complicated. It would make for a good dersign. As I understand it the trees metabolism is slow enough that by the time the leaves got the message to drop off there wouldnt be much moisture left to support them. Dropping off woud be a natural reaction to drought instead of responce to a communicated message.
 
The meter I have only goes to 35%, all samples will no doubt be above that. Also, the only way to get accurate readings with a meter is to split the wood open at the time of each reading... which kind of defeats the purpose here.

I realize the size and weight of the log will change as you work up the tree, that's why each billet would have to be directly compared to itself over time rather than each other. If there's a significant delta in the first week (air dried vs withering), I would think it would show in the curve when weight is plotted over time. As each slowly seasons, wetness should initially drop off fairly quickly and slow as it gets toward equilibrium.
Well, I suppose there are a few major problems with all of this discussion that need to be addressed:
(1) Tree removal companies have to remove the tree the day it is dropped unless huge. Most property owners would tolerate nothing else.
(2) Many large trees have to be pruned from the top down using a cherry picker before they are dropped to prevent damage to surrounding property and obstacles.
(3) If the tree is left there for a month or so for the leaves to do their work, what prevents thieves from plundering the spoils?
(4) If we are only talking about a month's difference in water that the leaves would draw out, does it really make that much difference?

Just MHO.
 
Well, I suppose there are a few major problems with all of this discussion that need to be addressed:
(1) Tree removal companies have to remove the tree the day it is dropped unless huge. Most property owners would tolerate nothing else.
(2) Many large trees have to be pruned from the top down using a cherry picker before they are dropped to prevent damage to surrounding property and obstacles.
(3) If the tree is left there for a month or so for the leaves to do their work, what prevents thieves from plundering the spoils?
(4) If we are only talking about a month's difference in water that the leaves would draw out, does it really make that much difference?

Just MHO.

Actually treeservice wood isnt considered firewood till the tree is removed. They are getting paid to remove the tree. Not to make firewood from it. The firewood is an after thought , at best.

The trees that have to be taken from the top down wouldnt be good candidates for this sort of test. The idea with them is get them down safely and quickly. The income from technical takedows far exceeds the price of the firewood in the tree.

I dont know of a hard wood that takes a month for hte leaves to dry out if cut off at the base. If theives wernt a problem for the 3-5 days it takes for the leaves to dry. Where is the issue ? If they pose a threat then there is always the old reliable method of processing and curing that takes 6-9 months.

A months difference might mean the difference between wood being ready in 4-5 months instead of 5-6 months. You could season more wood faster having more ready to sell at the start of the burning season or not having to hold back selling it because it just isnt quite there yet. Who says it is only a month that is gained ? This was only a speculative figure that might have been underestimated. It might turn out to be 2+ months difference. This might mean the wood is ready in 50% to 65% the normal time.

Not all wood is going to come from treeservices. I have gotten some from them and have to take what they are offereing or they don't come back. Mostly, the wood I sell and use to heat with comes from what I cut myself. Some places I might have the leisure of felling enough to keep me busy the next time I come back. I'm thinking of trying it to see the difference from years past. Other places it would block the township road or would dissappear before morning.

Wood thieves were a problem in grandpa's day too. He wasn't a betting man and wouldn't bet it to be there when he was ready for it unless it was stacked in the yard.
 
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My bet is that any gain from the 'withering' is going to be so minor that the tests would not detect it. IOW - the withering just ain't worth the wait.

The 'trees expire x amoutn of water' ignore the fact that they only do that if they have access to more water i.e., have not been cut. I am not from Missouri but until someone can produce some relieable test results I will stick with 'it is an old wives tale'.

Harry K
 
My bet is that any gain from the 'withering' is going to be so minor that the tests would not detect it. IOW - the withering just ain't worth the wait.

The 'trees expire x amoutn of water' ignore the fact that they only do that if they have access to more water i.e., have not been cut. I am not from Missouri but until someone can produce some relieable test results I will stick with 'it is an old wives tale'.

Harry K



I'm with you on wanting it to be proven. I'm not about to definitively say "Yes it dries faster". Until I can prove it to myself or see reliable test results one way or the other. Till then, I will stay with what works for the majority of what I cut for heat. Ed pointed out not all wood can be processed in this manner even if it did aid the drying time. Of course not every circumstance is the same. Even small gains are still gains and all add up. Of course the drying time is a moot point if you are already 2-3-7 years ahead.

The main reason I want to try it for myself is to know for sure. I risk losing some whole trees that are laid down, but not as much of a loss if I was to process them and leave them in the field.
 
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