Will they survive?

[Neem]

I've been called by a friend to see this. Plenty of trees before offices were built. Most of the trees have been removed, some are still there. But to keep the garden at the same level of the road this is what they did.

This is a White Pine

These are Hackberries

Think is one year now the trees are in these conditions. .......just wondering if it takes lot of time before you see them starting to die or it's a quite fast process

heavy cold rainy day today


M

 

[Neem]

...messing up with pics...sorry

This is White Pine

M

 

[Neem]

Hackberries

M

 

[The Count]

hard to say; my guess is that depends on the folks over there.
probably they`ll be there for a while and then....civilization will take over as usual

 

[derwoodii]

Changing the surface grade around established trees can lead to ill health. Its generally a slow death as O2 is depleted from root zone, if soil heaped against trunk collar rot kicks in. In your pics I see root flare on most trees and at a guess none too much construction impact. I fear now poor drainage will add to lower the O2 n push em faster over the edge.
Sad that designer planned to keep the trees but may have condemned them by not seeking better advice even a post here would of cost nuthin and found great knowledge. sigh...

 

[The Count]

well, if they were my trees, I would dig and put a pipe to drain the excess water. when water goes into the soil, air gets out and the other way around. if too much water gathers, the metabolic pathways will lead to alcohol accumulation due to the stop of it`s metabolization. short term, it is reversible; long term induces death.
covering with soil to a level will mostly not result in death but the plant will stop there with development and as said, the trunk not being adapted, will rot. if it were a salix or taxodium, there would be no problem.

my opinion is this: the trees should go, the landscape should be prepared for new trees.
or if they were smaller,trim short the trees, dig them up with root diameter of 6 times the diameter of the trunk. beware of the season then.

however they are too big for that I am afraid.
good thing to see is that one tries to keep such trees.

 

[derwoodii]

Hey telep you have a plant genetics background a Q here about the absorption of sugar molecules up though a plants root hairs. Some debate if sugar diluted in soil can or can not move into plant root hairs and up wards to help plants metabolism recover from stress. Some say yes others say no due to osmosis barrier or other reasons. What your thoughts.

I got some background links to give if you need to study up on matter.

 

[treeseer]

hey check the isa journal author percival he did a corker of a study showing uptake

 

[derwoodii]

Yup ta got that, just a little debate about how its taken up, if at all. Does sugar just act upon the soil improving rhizosphere biomass or is taken up directly an assist trees metab. I kinda think its a bit of both more so soil activation a little uptake helping things along. Could never quite dumb it down enough for me to digest this sugar molecules in soil solution osmosis stuff. But it seems to work in the lab and sometimes perhaps in the field.

http://www.treelink.org/joa/2004/nov/percival11-04.pdf

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/93/2/221.full

Interesting stuff here I think Telep is a Transylvanian plant geneticist or a Djadadjii in the lab bottle washin so he might have view.

 

[The Count]

Hey telep you have a plant genetics background a Q here about the absorption of sugar molecules up though a plants root hairs. Some debate if sugar diluted in soil can or can not move into plant root hairs and up wards to help plants metabolism recover from stress. Some say yes others say no due to osmosis barrier or other reasons. What your thoughts.

I got some background links to give if you need to study up on matter.

well, usually a concentrated solution in soil, takes water from the plant (salt, sugar etc). the trend is to equalize the concentrations. however there are some means that a plant can develop in order to get the juice: accumulate a higher concentration due to synthesis of proline for ex. however proline and chlorophill have the same grandma: glycin betaina. when one is made, the other stops.

not sure what stress are we talking about.

an good example is the sugar beet that lives on the sea shores with lot of salt

sorry for the late answer but I just came from my far away place.

not sure if I have answered your Q

 

[derwoodii]

"not sure what stress are we talking about"

"not sure if I have answered your Q"

Ta telep kinda answered one gave me another had to look up Proline in plants.
Research says trees with poor vigor can get a health hit by just adding simple sugar to root zone. It works in labs and I have anecdotal field work showin good, zero or failed response so its out there to be further tested.

Howz that sawin going, what you get in the end?

 

[Neem]

Changing the surface grade around established trees can lead to ill health. Its generally a slow death as O2 is depleted from root zone, if soil heaped against trunk collar rot kicks in. In your pics I see root flare on most trees and at a guess none too much construction impact. I fear now poor drainage will add to lower the O2 n push em faster over the edge.

when water goes into the soil, air gets out and the other way around. if too much water gathers, the metabolic pathways will lead to alcohol accumulation due to the stop of it`s metabolization. short term, it is reversible; long term induces death.
covering with soil to a level will mostly not result in death but the plant will stop there with development and as said, the trunk not being adapted, will rot. if it were a salix or taxodium, there would be no problem.

Thanks. concequences will be seen first on leaves or on the wood? I mean... the tree starts to suffer and slowly slowly dies. there is a systematic sequence in the process that leads to death? like a sort of domino-effect...? don't knoww.it is possible to say which part of the tree will be damaged first and then step by step all the system collapse?

Forgiv my ignorance :deadhorse:

M

 

[Neem]

QUOTE=derwoodii;2532350]Sad that designer planned to keep the trees but may have condemned them by not seeking better advice even a post here would of cost nuthin and found great knowledge. sigh...[/QUOTE]

Sad that designer wasn't a better designer...

 

[Neem]

hard to say; my guess is that depends on the folks over there.
probably they`ll be there for a while and then....civilization will take over as usual

concretilization takes over......................as usual


Noroc

 

[derwoodii]

Thanks. concequences will be seen first on leaves or on the wood? I mean... the tree starts to suffer and slowly slowly dies. there is a systematic sequence in the process that leads to death? like a sort of domino-effect...? don't knoww.it is possible to say which part of the tree will be damaged first and then step by step all the system collapse?

Forgiv my ignorance :deadhorse:

M

Likely to appear slowly in branch tip die back or stunted leaves a reduction in tree vigor vitality
With water logged poor drainage they just drop dead with leaves left on but going brown over a few weeks.
Have some hope, I seen far worse acts and the trees defy all attempt to killem.

 

[Neem]

Likely to appear slowly in branch tip die back or stunted leaves a reduction in tree vigor vitality
With water logged poor drainage they just drop dead with leaves left on but going brown over a few weeks.
Have some hope, I seen far worse acts and the trees defy all attempt to killem.

no...not a question of hope...trees will have their way...cant be feeling sad for every wrong thing you see...too many...just trying to add material to my poor knowledge


and be careful...more you rep more i ask

 

[The Count]

when a tree is ill, signs are according to some factors; if the tree is small and just planted and conditions are bad, is more likely to show in apex; if stress occurs later, you`ll see it in the leaves.
wichever the case, your eyes, trained or not, will be receptive for sure to those changes.