Woodbug or Alaskan type?

[arojay]

I am thinking of milling some 2 side logs for a building project. I am a logger so I have logs and I would expect to mill the logs on landings. Logs will be standing dry/beetle kill white spruce 20 to 40 feet long, butts likely in the 22 inch maximum diameter class. There is a Woodbug rig for sale locally with 60 feet of carriage that got me thinking about the pros and cons of the different types. Folks I know who have used bandmills on this local timber say that the feed rate has to be slowed considerably to avoid inaccuracy because of a number of factors with the wood. Mobile dimensions and other circular mills work but, I'm not really interested in milling as a business. All opinions welcome.

 

[TNMIKE]

MotorSeven where are you?

Rick in TN is the woodbug man. Perhaps he can speak to your question

 

[woodshop]

... Folks I know who have used bandmills on this local timber say that the feed rate has to be slowed considerably to avoid inaccuracy because of a number of factors with the wood...

I'm curious exactly what you mean here. Spruce is not all that difficult to mill with a properly set up bandmill with a sharp blade and proper tension etc. If you're not planning on milling anything after these logs, go cheap... $200 gets you a 36" alaskan mill. Just remember with any chainsaw mill (including the woodbug) you lose a quarter inch of log in kerf waste every cut. That means for every 4-5 boards, you get an extra board with a band.

If you havn't read this yet, it gives an admittedly biased, but fairly thorough view of one option if you plan to milling more logs down the road as I do.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19709

 

[arojay]

Woodshop: What I am told is that spruce is very slow growing here because of short growing season. Wood is very dense for spruce. It is also dry, spruce beetle killed for the most part. The story is that the small bandmills like wood-mizer and norwoods have lots of waving and waning unless feed rates are slowed to the point of competing with chainsaw mills. I do know that fellows who also saw Sitka spruce from the coast at this latitude don't have these problems with the coastal logs. Like I said, I haven't tried it myself, just what I hear from users. Portability is probably one of my main things.

 

[AlasKarl]

Never heard of the http://www.woodbug.com/, they seem to know what they are talking about (but so does all advertising). Sure looks like an interesting concept, maybe someone who runs a woodbug can chime in.

 

[VT-Woodchuck]

I have an Alaskan, a Woodbug and I'm having a bandsaw mill built for me next spring. I will then be able to talk intelligently about all three. Right now I like the Woodbug over the Alaskan EXCEPT when I run into a log too big for the bug. Then I use the Alaskan to cut cants to put on the WB. Knotty spruce can be tough to cut with any rig but I find the chainsaw mills handle it better than my neighbors bandsaw mill. I'm sure others will disagree. If I had a WB available at a reasonable price, I would own it!
Let us know what you do and how you like your choice.

 

[slabmaster]

I'm curious exactly what you mean here. Spruce is not all that difficult to mill with a properly set up bandmill with a sharp blade and proper tension etc. If you're not planning on milling anything after these logs, go cheap... $200 gets you a 36" alaskan mill. Just remember with any chainsaw mill (including the woodbug) you lose a quarter inch of log in kerf waste every cut. That means for every 4-5 boards, you get an extra board with bandmill.////////// The truth is that what you don't get in sawdust,you end up with planer chips,as the bandmill wanders more than a chainsaw does.So you really don't end up with any more lumber using a bandmill after it is plained.Especually with smaller logs.You can get what is called timber bind on a bandmill.So the lumber ends up thicker in the middle of the board,which is refered to as [wagon tongue]. THat's why i use a csm over a bandmill.I'd rather have a little more sawdust on the ground than beating my plainer to death trying to correct the uneveness of the bandmilled lumber.Mark

 

[woodshop]

...The truth is that what you don't get in sawdust,you end up with planer chips,as the bandmill wanders more than a chainsaw does.So you really don't end up with any more lumber using a bandmill after it is plained. Especually with smaller logs. You can get what is called timber bind on a bandmill. So the lumber ends up thicker in the middle of the board,which is refered to as [wagon tongue]. THat's why i use a csm over a bandmill. I'd rather have a little more sawdust on the ground than beating my plainer to death trying to correct the uneveness of the bandmilled lumber.Mark

No offence intended towards ya slabmaster, but from my experience, and many a sawyer I've talked to over the years, there is little "truth" in any of what you state above. I don't know... maybe where you come from folks don't know how to set up a bandmill (tension, alignment) so the blade doesn't wander as much as you say it does, or produce that "wagon tongue" even in knotty difficult logs. If you have to "beat your planer to death" correcting the "unevenness" of bandmilled lumber, there is something wrong with the bandmill. I've milled thousands of feet of all kinds of wood mostly with my little handheld Ripsaw bandmill, but also with a csm. On average, my worst bandsawn boards are usually better than my best chainsawn boards as far as smoothness of the board. Thus the chainsawn boards usually take MORE passes through the planer than the bandsawn boards to get down to S4S for the woodshop, not less as you say. That's on top of taking a quarter inch of kerf to begin with. Not trying to pull anybodies chain (pun intended ) , but in my humble experience, you got the bandsaw/chainsaw mill thing backwards. A properly set up bandsaw mill will cut more boards, and IN GENERAL smoother ones than a chainsaw mill. If you look close at how the rings line up in the end of this log, and thus how little kerf was taken for these 4 cuts, you can see what I'm talking about.

btw, I understand not everybody wants or can justify the cost of a large cast iron planer, but if you're using one of those lunchbox portable planers to turn roughsawn lumber into S4S dimensioned lumber, you better take it easy. They're just not designed to have hundreds of feet of rough lumber run through them. You'll end up beating the bearings to death and wearing those universal motors out quick if you're gonna do that all day long.

 

[slabmaster]

No offence intended towards ya slabmaster, but from my experience, and many a sawyer I've talked to over the years, there is little "truth" in any of what you state above. I don't know... maybe where you come from folks don't know how to set up a bandmill (tension, alignment) so the blade doesn't wander as much as you say it does, or produce that "wagon tongue" even in knotty difficult logs. If you have to "beat your planer to death" correcting the "unevenness" of bandmilled lumber, there is something wrong with the bandmill. I've milled thousands of feet of all kinds of wood mostly with my little handheld Ripsaw bandmill, but also with a csm. On average, my worst bandsawn boards are usually better than my best chainsawn boards as far as smoothness of the board. Thus the chainsawn boards usually take MORE passes through the planer than the bandsawn boards to get down to S4S for the woodshop, not less as you say. That's on top of taking a quarter inch of kerf to begin with. Not trying to pull anybodies chain (pun intended ) , but in my humble experience, you got the bandsaw/chainsaw mill thing backwards. A properly set up bandsaw mill will cut more boards, and IN GENERAL smoother ones than a chainsaw mill. If you look close at how the rings line up in the end of this log, and thus how little kerf was taken for these 4 cuts, you can see what I'm talking about.

btw, I understand not everybody wants or can justify the cost of a large cast iron planer, but if you're using one of those lunchbox portable planers to turn roughsawn lumber into S4S dimensioned lumber, you better take it easy. They're just not designed to have hundreds of feet of rough lumber run through them. You'll end up beating the bearings to death and wearing those universal motors out quick if you're gonna do that all day long.

That picture your showing is a large log.I simply stated that smaller logs don't fare too well in a bandmill.I don't mill over 24" logs too often,and never beat on a cheap planer all day long as you suggested.I have a three knife planer that will work hard if i want it to,but my boards off my csm don't wagon tongue.so it isn't worked hard at all.In fact, most people that see my lumber think it's already plained right off my csm. Mark

 

[slabmaster]

No offence intended towards ya slabmaster, but from my experience, and many a sawyer I've talked to over the years, there is little "truth" in any of what you state above. I don't know... maybe where you come from folks don't know how to set up a bandmill (tension, alignment) so the blade doesn't wander as much as you say it does, or produce that "wagon tongue" even in knotty difficult logs. If you have to "beat your planer to death" correcting the "unevenness" of bandmilled lumber, there is something wrong with the bandmill. I've milled thousands of feet of all kinds of wood mostly with my little handheld Ripsaw bandmill, but also with a csm. On average, my worst bandsawn boards are usually better than my best chainsawn boards as far as smoothness of the board. Thus the chainsawn boards usually take MORE passes through the planer than the bandsawn boards to get down to S4S for the woodshop, not less as you say. That's on top of taking a quarter inch of kerf to begin with. Not trying to pull anybodies chain (pun intended ) , but in my humble experience, you got the bandsaw/chainsaw mill thing backwards. A properly set up bandsaw mill will cut more boards, and IN GENERAL smoother ones than a chainsaw mill. If you look close at how the rings line up in the end of this log, and thus how little kerf was taken for these 4 cuts, you can see what I'm talking about.

btw, I understand not everybody wants or can justify the cost of a large cast iron planer, but if you're using one of those lunchbox portable planers to turn roughsawn lumber into S4S dimensioned lumber, you better take it easy. They're just not designed to have hundreds of feet of rough lumber run through them. You'll end up beating the bearings to death and wearing those universal motors out quick if you're gonna do that all day long.

Even with that large log your cutting in the picture,if you look about half way down the top you can see the rise in the middle of the log.That's the wagon tongue effect you get from a bandmill.A thinner blade will never cut a flatter board than a wide blade.Bandblades aren't even close to being as wide or stable in the cut as chainsaw bar and chain width.It's common since,that a scroll saw won't cut as strait as a hand saw in the cut because it isn't as wide or stable going down the slab.Mark

 

[MotorSeven]

60' of Woodbug????....wowdroolwow! Man you could make some killer beams with that rig. Anyway, if you are just taking off 2 sides(slabs) & doing some dimensional lumber for yourself, the 'bug would work fine. I have never used an Alaskan, but reading here convinces me that is a good system also. Like VT said, the 'bug has a 20" max diameter, so you will have to pick on the smaller stuff. What are you building...cabin/house/barn & what size? Since you are a logger, moving the logs around is not an issue? I run an 066, & i am thinking for alot of big/long logs i would go with an 088(or a non-Stihl equivalent). A band wil most definatly do the job & it may be a competive price compared to 6 sections of 'bug.
RD

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Wow! This thread should get to be fun to watch. By the way Slabmaster, I stand with ya. And I do own both a bandmill and a chainsaw mill.

Rodney

 

[MJR]

A csm seems perfect for you. I would dig deeper into the issues with the band saw millers around you. The more you know the better. The best of luck.

 

[woodshop]

Wow! This thread should get to be fun to watch. By the way Slabmaster, I stand with ya. And I do own both a bandmill and a chainsaw mill. Rodney

"fun to watch?" Sorry to ruin your spectacle there Rodney, but you can sit back down, we're just exchanging ideas and experiences here. The issue I was trying to make was that in general, and I stress the word general, most sawyers agree that a bandsaw will slice more usable lumber from a given log than a chainsaw mill will however smooth the surface is. Especially taking into concideration the planing that the boards then need since in my experience my chainsawn boards need more planing than my bandsawn boards do. My point was that contrary to slabmasters experience, mine has been that a bandsaw will indeed saw flat true boards IF it is set up right, AND it has a sharp blade in it. Small logs, large logs... doesn't matter what size the logs are. As soon as my blades start to dull, sure it starts to wander just like the bandsaws in my woodshop do when the blades get dull. AND just like a chainsaw mill will when the chain gets dull. Slabmaster pointed out that the top of that log in my pic was not true and flat which proved his point that a bandsaw won't slice true. Well, the top of that cant, as well as the vertical side of that cant you see in the pic, was sawn with my chainsaw mill, not my Ripsaw bandsaw!! I saw my logs into cants with a csm first before I attack them with my bandsaw. Saves bandsaw blades. Along those lines however, I agree with slabmaster that a properly set up csm with a good wide guide will slice flat lumber, and if you use special ripping chain designed to leave a smooth cut, you can get some surprising results. I also agree than the wider the blade, the more stable and true (in general, lots of other variables there). But in general a csm smoother and more yield than a properly set up bandmill? Can't agree with that one... my experience has shown me different.

So Rodney, you can "stand" anywhere ya like, but you won't convince me or most others that your csm gets you better yield than that bandsaw you have. If it does, you're doing something wrong, and probably wasting a lot of time and wood in the process.

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Woodshp, I'm not going to mix many word's with you. I fully unerstand that you're the dude here with the "golden tongue or golden fingers" or ever what you want to call it. I also understand you got more than you share of "yes men" here. So the thing is, I don't find a thing wrong with what Slabmaster was saying. I do however, have a little trouble with all you called the man. So, if you want to jump on me, well just come on. I'm not a "yes man" and will tell you just where you can jump.

Hope this helps
Rodney

 

[Nikko]

Just curious how long the chainsaw bar needs to be for a Woodbug?

 

[MJR]

The debate on mill types has been well said many times here. I am surprised no one has brought up a swing mill yet. The person asking the question pointed out he has one project in which he will be milling only two sides of the log. He is a logger so he must have some decent saws. A csm seems to be a perfect fit with the lowest capital expense. Nikko, use the search option here. There is some great information posted by the people responding to your post. As you can tell by their passion in their responses they are very good with the equipment they run.

 

[slabmaster]

Just curious how long the chainsaw bar needs to be for a Woodbug?

There are 2 woodbug sizes.Your bar can be 24" or greater for the regular woodbug and largest dia. log it can cut is 20".The baby bug can use a smaller bar 16" and larger and will cut a 11" log or smaller dia.Hope this helps,Mark

 

[MotorSeven]

Just curious how long the chainsaw bar needs to be for a Woodbug?

30"

 

[MotorSeven]

Slab, a 24" is too short since you need a few inches on the nose to go in the track & alot more above the sled where the saw attaches. 28 or 29" min but you could use longer than 30" if you had one laying around. It just has to be drilled for the sled mounting bolts.

RD