Woodmaster OWB leaking!

[Rassmo]

I've had my Woodmaster 4400 since the fall of 06 so this is the 4th heating sesason I've been using it. I've been very happy with it until about 3 weeks ago when I noticed the water supply was low. Thought it was strange but filled it up and thought that should be it. Nope low again the next day so looking underneath and I see a pretty fast steady dripping. Started out I was putting in about 4 - 6 gallons a day but it flucuates. One day I put in 15 gallons.
I called Woodmaster and they told me to call my dealer. The dealer said on all the units he has sold there has never been a problem before. He came out and opened up the unit and concluded that it had coroded through at the bottom. I opened the side back up to see for myself but hard to tell in the tight quarters but I did gob a bunch of plumbers putty in the area it was dripping the push several pieces of lath under it to keep the putty as tight as possible then pushed more putty into the area. This was yesterday and it does seem to have slowed the leak some. (only added 3 gallons today.)
Woodmaster supposedly told the dealer they will pay for the repair but not the transport. (I guess the unit has to be removed and taken to shop to weld. Not a good option this time of year with all this snow!) or he could trade it out for a new unit but that will be a lot more $$$ for the trade.

I realize every product probably has a few units with quality issues. My issue is this. The unit is only 3 1/2 years old. I live in the city limits and have treated city water , not rusty well water. Every season I have drained the tank, refilled and added 1/2 gallon of Woodmaster's liquid boiler treatment. How could 1/4" thick steel corrode through??? I don't think you could fill a 1/4" thick steel drum with salt water and have it corrode through that fast. Heck maybe not even acid! Another thing is I don't think I could be comfortable with a patch up job and if it will hold. How good of weld job would it be?? When could I expect the next leak??

My feeling is that it should be replaced with new at NO cost or at least just the cost of the dealer to swap them out. I spent a LOT of money on this unit and expected a LOT of years of service.
I'm in no way bashing Woodmaster! I think they have an excellent, proven product. I may have gotten the one lemon. I'm just waiting to see how they stand behind their product under what sound like a very rare or unheard of leak. I'll post again when things are resolved.

 

[Circle B MN]

Have you been testing the water in the boiler for ph and nitrates regularly..? I would think that it would take some pretty harsh water to corrode the steel to the point of leaking. As for patching it, I see no reason not to, but I would look into fixing the cause of the corrosion as well. Best of luck.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Realy hard to have much of an opinion of why it is leaking when we are not looking at it. Is it near or at a seam? iIf so you could have a weld quality problem if not you could be dealing with a defect in the steel, a severe corrsion probelm or maybe a ding dong at the factory dropped a running 9" grinder on that spot and covered it up before the boss found out. I am with you though that in any circumstance 1/4" of steel is a lot to rot away in 4 years.

 

[ericjeeper]

Autozone sells Liquid Glass.. My buddy fixed his Taylor.. About five bucks a bottle. Throw about 5 bottles in it and see how many more years you can get out of her.

 

[northcountry]

your system is a "open system" If you do not keep up with balancing the chemicals in your boiler the oxygen in your system can and will act like an acid on the ferrous metals in your system. most likely there was a weld with a thin point or a structural anomaly in the sheet steel that made the area prone to the failure. upkeep on the oxygen scavenging chemicals bi-yearly at a minimum is a must. Closed systems require no chemicals because the oxygen is "used up" in the first time it is brought up to temp, open systems dont have that ability. if you start seeing premature pump failures and the like, this is most likely the culprit. Weld it up and keep going. an onsite weld is not all that expensive and would be best...I usually charge around $100.00 for dragging the welder and generator on-site.

 

[Keevan]

Autozone sells Liquid Glass.. My buddy fixed his Taylor.. About five bucks a bottle. Throw about 5 bottles in it and see how many more years you can get out of her.

Tell us more about Liquid Glass. thank you

 

[1harlowr]

What is the warranty from Woodmaster say they do after 3+ years?

 

[Rich Audiano]

Ten Year Limited Warranty on Fire Drum and Water Jacket

As my warranty reads:

In first year if unit leaks, they will replace it at no charge to you.

They then do not address anything between then and year 6 they say they will pay 70% of any warranty work. Year 7 60% Year 8 40% of warranty year 9 20% of warranty work and year 10 is at 10% of warranty work.

Then a bunch of lawyer speak that they will not pay to ship,for antifreeze, or any damages their faulty product may cause, etc,etc.etc.........

So my interpretation is the louder you scream about wanting a new unit at little or no cost the better you may be.

Tell them you want satisfaction or you will make it your life's work to run down their product on every outdoor wood burner site and other forum you can find.

Best of luck getting it resolved.

 

[Rassmo]

Have you been testing the water in the boiler for ph and nitrates regularly..? I would think that it would take some pretty harsh water to corrode the steel to the point of leaking. As for patching it, I see no reason not to, but I would look into fixing the cause of the corrosion as well. Best of luck.

First I've heard of any such tesing needed. Can'r find my manual at the moment but I don't think it mentions that. Just a yearly drain, flush and fill and add new water treatment which I did. I'm sure the water used isn't harsh. Same water from the city tower that we use for every household purpose. How many OWB users do the water testing mentioned above?? If it's standard practice I'll add it to the maintenance schedule.

 

[MNBobcat]

Rassmo,

When you installed your OWB you should have poured a couple of gallons of anti-corrosion additive into the water. This additive is critical for all OWBs -- it protects the pump and the boiler. The water testing is to make sure you have the proper PH and enough anti-corrosion additive in the water. You should test whenever you add water.

 

[Rassmo]

Rassmo,

When you installed your OWB you should have poured a couple of gallons of anti-corrosion additive into the water. This additive is critical for all OWBs -- it protects the pump and the boiler. The water testing is to make sure you have the proper PH and enough anti-corrosion additive in the water. You should test whenever you add water.

The Woodmaster 4400 come with 1/2 gallon of boiler treatment which on their web site says good for 150 gallons. The 4400 holds 120 gallons I believe. They say nothing about testing the water. The city water here is considered very good coming from a 750 ft well and treated at the water treatment plant. I don't believe following the companies instructions on anual drain flush and fill and treat that 1/4" thick steel would corrode through in 3 1/2 years. Still waiting to hear back from Woodmaster on this.

 

[MNBobcat]

Rassmo,

For your amount of water it does sound like you added enough treatment. My OWB holds closer to 400 gallons and I added 2 gallons of treatment. The water testing for my OWB is to test nitrates and PH.

I talked to a boiler guy with 35 years experience awhile back. We weren't talking about the water, but as I was going to leave he stopped me and said that the most important thing with a boiler is to stay on top of the water treatment. Makes sense to me.

I'd suggest being on the safe side and test the nitrate level and PH of your water at least every 6 months.

I doubt that your water had anything to do with the leaking. As you said, 1/4 inch is pretty thick to be damaged in that short amount of time. But if it was me, I wouldn't remove the boiler for repair if there was any possibility someone could come out and weld it where it sits.

 

[builder1101]

i'd put money on a weld. may not be your problem, but i'd make chances of a leak happening where material meets instead of going through a sheet somewhere. unless WM's have dead spots in their water circulation? sediment will collect and all those chemicals you add won't get mixed well.

i looked at them all. some had some sketchy welds.

and i couldn't believe it, but a CB 6048 didn't impress me one bit. At least not the one i looked at. maybe it was a friday afternoon Beer:30 quick weld together job, but i didn't like it one bit.

all the welds inside the firebox were tiny puny welds. not a nice full wide angle fill. it honestly looked like beads of toothpaste all over the place.

Disgusting.

 

[MNBobcat]

i couldn't believe it, but a CB 6048 didn't impress me one bit. At least not the one i looked at. maybe it was a friday afternoon Beer:30 quick weld together job, but i didn't like it one bit.

all the welds inside the firebox were tiny puny welds. not a nice full wide angle fill. it honestly looked like beads of toothpaste all over the place.

Disgusting.

The welds on the cb 6048 must be good enough because you don't hear of them leaking. Also, could be they are welded inside and outside and you were only seeing the one side. I have a CB 6048 and couldn't be happier with it. I wouldn't want an e-classic or any other boiler. I've been forced to burn wet, green wood this year and I can't believe how it doesn't seem to matter at all. This thing just works. I'm not going through a lot of wood. I go out every couple of weekends and cut for a day and that gets me through the next month. I'll be cutting tomorrow and should get enough wood to get me through March. I have enough already to get me through this month.

I figure if I ever do have a problem with a leak I'll fix it myself. There isn't much to a boiler. They are pretty simple. I can climb in there and weld whatever might need to be welded.

 

[builder1101]

The welds on the cb 6048 must be good enough because you don't hear of them leaking. Also, could be they are welded inside and outside and you were only seeing the one side. I have a CB 6048 and couldn't be happier with it. I wouldn't want an e-classic or any other boiler. I've been forced to burn wet, green wood this year and I can't believe how it doesn't seem to matter at all. This thing just works. I'm not going through a lot of wood. I go out every couple of weekends and cut for a day and that gets me through the next month. I'll be cutting tomorrow and should get enough wood to get me through March. I have enough already to get me through this month.

I figure if I ever do have a problem with a leak I'll fix it myself. There isn't much to a boiler. They are pretty simple. I can climb in there and weld whatever might need to be welded.

so their's two ugly beads per seam?

I could make an weld and have it work. just as long as it works? holding pressure after built is one thing, not leaking years later is another.

i guess i'm getting at if one is to dump $12,000+ on a setup, some quality isn't asking too much. seeing pretty painted tin sheeting, fresh warning and direction stickers, and a shiny smoke stack is only a fraction of the picture.

 

[MNBobcat]

so their's two ugly beads per seam?

I could make an weld and have it work. just as long as it works? holding pressure after built is one thing, not leaking years later is another.

i guess i'm getting at if one is to dump $12,000+ on a setup, some quality isn't asking too much. seeing pretty painted tin sheeting, fresh warning and direction stickers, and a shiny smoke stack is only a fraction of the picture.

True, but on the other hand you're the only person I've heard claiming they have bad welds and yet nobody ever posts that the boilers leak. I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt and suggesting maybe the good welds are on the other side that you couldn't see. Heck, they may even be robotically welded and the side you saw welded by hand. Whatever the case, people aren't complaining they leak.

 

[builder1101]

True, but on the other hand you're the only person I've heard claiming they have bad welds and yet nobody ever posts that the boilers leak. I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt and suggesting maybe the good welds are on the other side that you couldn't see. Heck, they may even be robotically welded and the side you saw welded by hand. Whatever the case, people aren't complaining they leak.

i said some of the welding looked ugly on different manufactures. I was not making the point if a weld is ugly it will leak. The price range and what CB's rep is, because my buddies was already going and didn't have a chance to see a virgin firebox, then looking at one at the dealer, i was surprised.

by no means do i have any welding certifications, but i've fabbed enough and broke enough things to understand joining material together, in my own mind, i did not like how the bead was high, humped between the seams, looking like ferret turds set end on end. I was just angry at the fact i've done better in my free time with nasty rusty material and this was a unit being sold for big dollar made with new sheets fresh from the foundry.

That unit was probably sold and works perfectly without issues.

Some here have mentioned water quality and treatment, and everyone knows you'll increase problems when welding material together, then if it was 1 full sheet, so I mentioned to the OP's question his leak might be from a weld, instead of a corrosion hole in the material.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Rassmo,

When you installed your OWB you should have poured a couple of gallons of anti-corrosion additive into the water. This additive is critical for all OWBs -- it protects the pump and the boiler. The water testing is to make sure you have the proper PH and enough anti-corrosion additive in the water. You should test whenever you add water.

Here's the lowdown on OWB water treatment chemeical content from a pro, who takes care of my condenser water treatment here at work.....at least for the CB treatment, don't know what chemicals may be in other brands...
The two primary ingredients in CB water treatment are potassium hydroxide and sodium nitrite. The potassium hydroxide maintains a neutral PH, if your water is too acidic or alkaline, other means of neutralization may be needed. The sodium nitrite is the corrosion inhibitor part of the mix. It uses the oxygen in the water to convert the chemical so it will inhibit corrosion.
For me, it has worked well, I use 1 gal. in my CB5036. Test regularly, make sure the PH stays neutral.