Young generation of tree workers

[IcePick]

I've just about had it. A young guy has been shoved onto my crew because of his ineptness on his former crew. It was either get fired or I try him out. Well, he's a good climber(lots of potential I should say) so I told the boss to send him my way, I can work with him. Well after saving his job, this joker comes aboard with absolutely no appreciation, he doesn't listen, he's a cocky S.O.B, and even when I snap on him it goes in one ear and out the other immediately. Can he really be this stupid? Keep in mind he's been with this company for a year and a half, and of course, he thinks he's the #### and the only one capable of climbing nasty stuff (even though I've been doing it for FIFTEEN years now).

I've no energy left dealing with this #### anymore. I've already grounded one guy who came into the company with lies of doing crane removals etc...even though he struggles to climb a ####ing crab apple, and since he is nothing more than a ground guy (in his mind he's master climber) anymore, he bumbles around picking his ass.

These young punks that come into this business are a joke in my mind. Most of them show no respect for the veterans and feel like since they went through a semester climbing course that they don't need to listen to anyone because they know it all.

Anyway this kid is not the first pain in my ass. I've dealt with this #### for years now. The problem with this industry is that only a small percentage of employees know their role and how to make a successful company keep rolling smoothly. I guess I do, but it's stressing me out and now I'm thinking about getting out of the residential line of work once and for all after fifteen years. Or else I need to shake things up on my crew and start parting ways with guys I've been working with for a while. I've never had anyone fired, but it's getting to that point.

Thanks for listening to my rhetorical complaining. I've got three options: Be a dictatorial ass of a foreman and make this kids job miserable, put up with it and wait for him to do something stupid to get fired, or just get him fired right away. Right now the thought of putting up with this for the rest of my working career is depressing beyond belief. The fun is gone from the job, and I'm only half way to retirement (even though I'm certain I will work until the day I die).

 

[superjunior]

they're all worthless and weak

 

[tree MDS]

The biggest punks seem to come from bartlett. I don't know what that place does, or what goes on there, but it's like they brainwash them into thinking they're all precious, or something, (the two I'm thinking of in particular, sucked pathetically too!!) it's amazing!!

 

[Treetom]

Get rid of the SOB. You're doing a job you love and appreciate. That arrogant punk is just taking some of the joy out of your carreer.

 

[formationrx]

...

punch him in the head and put him thru the chipper...

 

[TreeAce]

and here I thought it was only my new 22 year old that new everything. Except how to run ropes properly, tie basic knots (although he has "mastered" tieing a rope onto another rope), use a saw properly, and rake up to my standards. Other than that he is great . He is the grandson of a buddy of mine who is/was a heck of tree man. So now young bucky thinks he is grand fathered in some how. I was able to point out to him the other day that if he didn't stop saying "oh, I know that"...even when it maybe true, that i was gonna take issue with it. I then went on to explain that replies such as....."OK", "will do", "I am on it" , "sounds good" are much better. He actually kept his mouth shut and I havent heard "I know that!" since. On a brighter note, he does show up on time and he keeps his cell phone in the truck where it belongs.

 

[sodbreaker]

Arrogance and a cocky attitude are found in all age groups.

 

[beastmaster]

I think anyone of any age who wants to do hard physical labor, that is filled with danger, to only make barely a living wage must have a screw loose or no other options. I don't see a pool of young, smart ,sharp, motivated guys lining up to be tree trimmers.
20 years ago a climber could make 120.00 bucks a day or more. That was decent money back then. In all those years to now .that is still what a working climber makes. I know there are exceptions but thats still what a novice climber is going to make.
When I was working on bug trees for forestry in the 80's we thought we were the elite, you want to talk cocky and arrogant. We were highly trained at removing trees.
The few really good young climbers I've run across either start their own show or move on to a real job in another field. So were left with a lot of losers and neverdoweller who have no one to pit their skills against or the desire to learn more or be better and have inflated egos.
I probably just described myself at 25 .
All that being said, there are a few young guys and gals who shine, their naturals they learn fast and they have good common sence, their out there, and their a pleasure to work with. Those others? I miss the days you could take them behind the building and the foreman would look the other way as you read them from the book

 

[IcePick]

Of course you find cockiness at all age groups. I fit that bill in the mid-thirties range. However when it comes time to tree work, to getting things done, the cockiness of all crew members needs to gel and be understood by one another. It's a ying-yang kind of thang. Some guys don't get it. I could sit here and write pages and pages on my philosophy of tree work, but I won't.

Also, not everyone who is worth a salt goes on to do his own thing at a younger age. That is quite a generalization of and even an insult to those veterans with twenty years of the industry under their belt putting food on the table for themselves and their loved ones. I could have done my own thing, still could, but not everyone needs to be a chief to be successful. The world is full of too many chiefs and not enough indians.

 

[beastmaster]

Of course you find cockiness at all age groups. I fit that bill in the mid-thirties range. However when it comes time to tree work, to getting things done, the cockiness of all crew members needs to gel and be understood by one another. It's a ying-yang kind of thang. Some guys don't get it. I could sit here and write pages and pages on my philosophy of tree work, but I won't.

Also, not everyone who is worth a salt goes on to do his own thing at a younger age. That is quite a generalization of and even an insult to those veterans with twenty years of the industry under their belt putting food on the table for themselves and their loved ones. I could have done my own thing, still could, but not everyone needs to be a chief to be successful. The world is full of too many chiefs and not enough indians.

By no means did I intend to insult anyone. I would be insulting my self if that was the case. Those of us who for what ever reason find tree work a perfect fit are in a category all by its self. Were the grease that makes the industry work, with out us there would be no companys.
I was that cocky, arrogant kid, but with close to 30 years under my belt, and having made every mistake, and being humbled more then once, I have replaced bravo by confidence. Mine and yours and many other veterans of the trees, are in a class of its own. That is why we can have a thread like this. Not many will survive the cut, Were not a dime a dozen we hopefully get paid what were worth. Not to sound cocky or arrogent, but were Professionals. But you have to wonder where tomorrows professionals are going to come from, but then again that is probably what they thought 25 years ago about us. When they lay me to rest, I'll more then likely still have my saddle on. No I meant no insult to to those who are real tree guys.

 

[DeAvilaTree]

I've been climbing for 20+ years, I learned alot of tricks from the guys that taught me that you just don't see in modern arborculture, once and awile I get a young kid that thinks he knows it all, and when you show him an old trick he shuts right up and looks at you funny. I haven't been climbing since my accident last July, I was hit with 13kv and fell 40'. I'm back in the bucket truck and I climb trees with lots of limbs. But now more than ever I have to rely on other climbers to help me with my business. I completely understand your pain. I guess you just have to sort thru all the riff raffs until you find a keeper, and when you do pay him well and hold on to him/her it will be worth it in the long run.

 

[tree MDS]

I remember your story!! Glad to hear you're up and fighting again man!!

Hang tough brother!!

 

[MacLaren]

I think anyone of any age who wants to do hard physical labor, that is filled with danger, to only make barely a living wage must have a screw loose or no other options. I don't see a pool of young, smart ,sharp, motivated guys lining up to be tree trimmers.
20 years ago a climber could make 120.00 bucks a day or more. That was decent money back then. In all those years to now .that is still what a working climber makes. I know there are exceptions but thats still what a novice climber is going to make.
When I was working on bug trees for forestry in the 80's we thought we were the elite, you want to talk cocky and arrogant. We were highly trained at removing trees.
The few really good young climbers I've run across either start their own show or move on to a real job in another field. So were left with a lot of losers and neverdoweller who have no one to pit their skills against or the desire to learn more or be better and have inflated egos.
I probably just described myself at 25 .
All that being said, there are a few young guys and gals who shine, their naturals they learn fast and they have good common sence, their out there, and their a pleasure to work with. Those others? I miss the days you could take them behind the building and the foreman would look the other way as you read them from the book

Seems you nailed it. Its like talent follows money now more than ever

 

[mitchellmead9]

Arrogance and a cocky attitude are found in all age groups.

I agree, there seems to be more young ones because they haven't had the chance to be humbled yet - older guys who started arrogant are either soon humbled, fired, or of course, "weeded out".

 

[Youngbuck20]

AH HUM......Im a young "punk", by the sounds of things. I find that almost every older person ive worked with, with the exception of the crew i work with now, are arrogant know it all's because they have been doing"it" for x number of years. I have been the uh dog for every job ive got, and so i should of been. I dont say I know things that i dont, i run back and forth doing what im told when im told and how to do it. i clean up while they have a smoke or sit in the truck or speak with the HO just to be told it isnt good enough. i put up with the "veterans" telling me how to do it their way, the only right way of course. an idea? nope, go do your job the way i want it done. i grew up on a farm bustin my ass cause we cant afford any machinery. worked construction in almost every trade bein someones b!tch. I have to say ive found the older generation to be shall we say ignorant to any new changes techniques or ideas. ive worked along side some pretty useless people my age and i know its frustrating as hell but just the same, the ole boy barks orders and sits on his ass while you do it the wrong way. cant have patience and teach someone something, just watch them struggle till they snap and quit their job. the crew i work with now are within 25-40. all good guys, all willing to help you learn and help you along the way, dont make you do things you arent comfortable with. People never change, every generation has the same sort of people, just diff ages. I have worked way too hard to be called a young punk or useless. there are good workers willing to learn, maybe you just gotta stop hiring guys that wear their pants below their ass or up above their belly button.

 

[pro94lt]

I'm a young guy myself and can vouch that my generation is horrible. None of them want to work, it's always someone elses fault and someone owes them. It"s a real real problem for employers across the board not just in the tree industry

 

[beastmaster]

Most novice climbers don't like being told how to do their job, even if they are doing it wrong. I was a hard head too back before they invented the wheel. Some old guy would tell me, do it this way or say,'' might be easier if you did this''. I wouldn't listen. But I found out its not so much they knew it all, they just knew what worked. I am careful not to bruise any ego's when I work with younger climbers. I might make a suggestion and slide it in off handed.
I have trained a few climbers over the years, and I tell them,''learn my way first, then you can change up later if you want. Some times I have to say, don't ever do it like I just did, The do as I say not as I do speech.
I was working on a crew last year and they use to get me so frustrated. I lost my temper more then once. One day I asked them, "are you guys stupid or what. Your not learning even basic stuff like tying a knot. Their answer surprised me. No were not stupid, we just don't care. There it is in a nut shell.
I do care, but you can't force a person to. I had good teachers when I was learning. I trusted them. If they said I could do something in the tree, I would put my own fear or nervousness aside and do what they told me. I learned a long time ago its easy to be a big frog in a little pond. But you one day start with a new crew or company and your short comings are obvious. There are some masters out there who put even a good climber to shame. Best be humble, and learn what you can. Everyone has something they can teach ya. Otherwise you become that guy who after 10 years only has 1 year experience 10 times.
Some of you cocky young punks, are going to go on to be masters, then you'll understand. It's all part of life.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Tru dat beasty! I was trained by a ol schooler, total A hole to everybody, but he was freakin bad a s s in the air. Hard as a Marine D.I. and as knowledgeable as Botanist. Would scream at me for screwin up, my wife hates his guts! BUT! He taught me well, gave me the ways to do it that work and would talk to me while hanging out in the tree, explaining the way of the Jedi. It sucked for a long time, having him around, but I knew I needed it, he kept me far away from the darkside, so I told my wife to deal with it. He was like a old crusty SgtMaj that just got put in charge of the base daycare. His opinion of the new guys "baaaaaah, they all suck" New guys are not willing to get told they are a dumb as s, they want to be coddled and lightly groomed. I have my oldest out now, he wants to learn (FINALLY!!!!!) He is my son, so he knows how I am, he has the thick skin that is needed, I have built it up over the years busting his ba lls on a daily basis, driving the way things work in his head, so he should do well. I plan on having him pretty proficient in the tree by the time he goes back to school, that way, he could get on at a outfit around there, on breaks and such to make some coin, starvin student and all. When it is all said and done and he is a full blown preacher, black and white collar, I hope he will pray for the tree as he prunes it!

When it comes to the new gen, I gotta say that all the good ones are serving in the sandbox, stop in to your local Marine Recruiter office, let them know your looking, if you are, they will put ya down. Most Marines, when they come home, check in there, just to say hi and get a pulse on the community. They are drug tested,combat tested and most of the time have thickest skin than any of us could ever hope for. Good place to find that kid that can be taught, and you wont hurt his feelings.

Watched the inside scoop on Barrett fire arms last night on Nat Geo. All U.S. outfits get their Barrett .50 cal Sniper rifles maintenance'd there at the factory. Inside of a scope cap, a young sniper wrote this, BTW, this weapon came from Afghanistan. "GOD, forgive me for what I am about to do, but these bastards must die" Again, most of the good kids currently have a job to do.

 

[Incomplete]

Tru dat beasty! I was trained by a ol schooler, total A hole to everybody, but he was freakin bad a s s in the air. Hard as a Marine D.I. and as knowledgeable as Botanist. Would scream at me for screwin up, my wife hates his guts! BUT! He taught me well, gave me the ways to do it that work and would talk to me while hanging out in the tree, explaining the way of the Jedi. It sucked for a long time, having him around, but I knew I needed it, he kept me far away from the darkside, so I told my wife to deal with it. He was like a old crusty SgtMaj that just got put in charge of the base daycare. His opinion of the new guys "baaaaaah, they all suck" New guys are not willing to get told they are a dumb as s, they want to be coddled and lightly groomed. I have my oldest out now, he wants to learn (FINALLY!!!!!) He is my son, so he knows how I am, he has the thick skin that is needed, I have built it up over the years busting his ba lls on a daily basis, driving the way things work in his head, so he should do well. I plan on having him pretty proficient in the tree by the time he goes back to school, that way, he could get on at a outfit around there, on breaks and such to make some coin, starvin student and all. When it is all said and done and he is a full blown preacher, black and white collar, I hope he will pray for the tree as he prunes it!

When it comes to the new gen, I gotta say that all the good ones are serving in the sandbox, stop in to your local Marine Recruiter office, let them know your looking, if you are, they will put ya down. Most Marines, when they come home, check in there, just to say hi and get a pulse on the community. They are drug tested,combat tested and most of the time have thickest skin than any of us could ever hope for. Good place to find that kid that can be taught, and you wont hurt his feelings.

Watched the inside scoop on Barrett fire arms last night on Nat Geo. All U.S. outfits get their Barrett .50 cal Sniper rifles maintenance'd there at the factory. Inside of a scope cap, a young sniper wrote this, BTW, this weapon came from Afghanistan. "GOD, forgive me for what I am about to do, but these bastards must die" Again, most of the good kids currently have a job to do.

Where is the ABSOLUTLEY AWESOME button for this???!!

Attitude Reflects Leadership. No matter the trade. As a Job Sight Boss your responsibility is to the safety of your crew and the customer and their property and to the productivity of your employers company. If an employee will not listen and obey you (specifically shut his mouth when told) he has no business being on your crew: he is a danger and a liability, a law suit waiting to happen; I will take a Slow Leak over a loose cannon any day, but will abide neither long. Your employer, by placing you in charge has tacitly endorsed your opinion; if he won't listen to your professional, experienced opinion, then possibly he doesn't value you or your input and you need to seriously examine your professional relationship.

Young bucks should be given the chance to shape up: on Friday night pull them aside (alone, they'll appreciate that if not respect you for it) and give them their options: shape up or ship out. Let them think about it over the weekend and see what Monday brings. I had an employee who was just not a good fit, scared of heights a Slow Leak, so I met him one morning in his car and basically said "Hey, it's not a good fit". But he really wanted the job, so he applied himself and overcame his impediments. I was proud of him and we parted on good terms at the conclusion of the project. But it was also my job to know what his strengths and weaknesses where, and to task him appropriately.

But many of you are right: my generation is soft and spoiled and we are Momma's Precious Infants, who think we deserve all the best that the world has to offer, on a silver platter. But that's your generations fault. Your peers spoiled us. The key is patience, and a firm hand, and a prospectors eyes to find the nuggets. But just like in mining, you gotta get rid of the crud as fast as possible to get to the gold. So you go through ten employees in as many weeks until you find that perfect Prospect. That is not a bad thing. You begin to develop a reputation of excellence and the scrubs stop applying and the best want to work for you. Case in point, Steve Jobs: a tyrant who had Prospects lined up around his building for a chance to work for him.

No help is better than bad help.

 

[reynog61]

Some young guys just want to work.

I am new to the industry, just over a year in and climbing the whole time. I work hard and do my job so I can live my life. If you want a good climber that will move on a rope go put a job ad in your local rock climbing gym. Save time by getting someone who thinks 100ft up is privilege and not a chore. Age is not the issue I think your guy has an attitude problem and I'll bet cold hard cash his ol' man is the same way. Find someone with an open mind not experience or whatever they may claim they have.

I don't mean to bring back a dead topic but I'm with youngbuck and I think I've heard enough of back in my day stories. Trees have not changed and climbing is still climbing.