Poping trees

[alleyyooper]

Another cold night here at 15 below then a little wind making it feel like 23 below. Walking back to cut some more fire wood and get it split to handling size I could hear the trees popping like I never have this winter.
We have had some really sunny days with the temps in the teens so I got to thinking the sap is probably starting to flow some.

Al

 

[mainewoods]

No sap here yet as I have been snapping off tips of the maple branches to check for flow. Not a drop of sap to be found. Took down several white ash the other day and they were very dry also. They have already started to check on the ends since being exposed to the bone dry arctic air we have been "enjoying" for the last few months.

 

[Whitespider]

Except for a small few tree types, it ain't temperature that causes sap to start running, or leaves to fall, or whatever... it's the ratio of daylight to darkness that does. As the days get longer the trees start waking-up, as the days get shorter the trees go to sleep... temperature has nothing to do with it. As I started this post though, there are a small few that will react to temperature... I believe some of the soft maples do.
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[mainewoods]

Sorry spidey, but sugar maple sap flow is entirely temperature dependent. Temperature rises above 32* cause positive pressure to build in the tree. A drilled hole on a tree facing a southern exposure will drip sap and a hole on the north side of the tree will not until the sun comes around and hits it. Once the air temp gets well above freezing all holes will drip sap.

 

[djones]

On top of all that, I'm not ready to start tapping just yet, can't get into the woods.

 

[Whitespider]

Sorry spidey, but sugar maple sap flow is entirely temperature dependent. Temperature rises above 32* cause positive pressure to build in the tree. A drilled hole on a tree facing a southern exposure will drip sap and a hole on the north side of the tree will not until the sun comes around and hits it. Once the air temp gets well above freezing all holes will drip sap.

Not quite... the mechanism you're talking about has noting to do with sap (or moisture) flowing up into the branches. The phenomenon that occurs during the Maple sugaring season has nothing to do with natural sap flow... and it's unique to Maples. Without a wound or tap hole, there is no flowing of the sap... because it's coming from the branches, not the roots. Yes, the thawing and freezing of the sugaring season does cause positive pressure in the upper parts of the tree... but the sap has nowhere to "flow" unless a wound is introduced. Root pressure cannot not occur until the ground thaws, and the mechanism that "pulls" sap up into the branches cannot occur until there are leaves, and the opening of the buds is dictated by the ratio of daylight to darkness in hard maples. So no, Sugar Maple sap "flow" is not temperature dependent... but temperature is what allows you to "drain" sap from the upper part of tree during the sugaring season. Actually, if the tree was pulling sap up from the roots (i.e., if sap was "flowing") it would make lousy syrup.

 

[Marshy]

I'm no expert in the matter but my neighbor collected upwards of 850 gallons in sap last week and weekend when we had sustained temps in the 40's and ground still frozen. The warm rain was probably like a hot shower for them and woke them up. Prior to that warm spell temps were in the 20 for high for weeks. Maples will flow sap with some good sunshine and +32*F after just a day or two with a frozen ground and health amount of snow cover...
Guess what, this week the temps are back into the teens again the sap stopped flowing! Seems quite temperature dependent to me.

Either way I'm ready for some of mother earths candy.

 

[Vermonster]

Not quite... the mechanism you're talking about has noting to do with sap (or moisture) flowing up into the branches. The phenomenon that occurs during the Maple sugaring season has nothing to do with natural sap flow... and it's unique to Maples. Without a wound or tap hole, there is no flowing of the sap... because it's coming from the branches, not the roots. Yes, the thawing and freezing of the sugaring season does cause positive pressure in the upper parts of the tree... but the sap has nowhere to "flow" unless a wound is introduced. Root pressure cannot not occur until the ground thaws, and the mechanism that "pulls" sap up into the branches cannot occur until there are leaves, and the opening of the buds is dictated by the ratio of daylight to darkness in hard maples. So no, Sugar Maple sap "flow" is not temperature dependent... but temperature is what allows you to "drain" sap from the upper part of tree during the sugaring season. Actually, if the tree was pulling sap up from the roots (i.e., if sap was "flowing") it would make lousy syrup.

You really should ****.

 

[benp]

Lately, the woods sound like multiple drive by's going on.

 

[John R]

Another cold night here at 15 below then a little wind making it feel like 23 below. Walking back to cut some more fire wood and get it split to handling size I could hear the trees popping like I never have this winter.
We have had some really sunny days with the temps in the teens so I got to thinking the sap is probably starting to flow some.

Al

I've noticed the popping of the trees too.
What causes it.

 

[Whitespider]

You really should ****.

So your're saying what exactly??
That I'm incorrect?? Or I'm an azz because I am correct??
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[mainewoods]

Well, not entirely correct spidey. Sap flow is regulated by the thaw and freeze cycle. Temperature absolutely affects sap flow. The sap only runs for a few weeks until the temp stays above freezing at night. There is positive pressure in the tree during warming and negative pressure during freezing at night. The rising pressure created by warming temps is what causes sap to flow out of any opening in the tree, be it a broken branch, a nick in the tree or a drilled hole.There is no root pressure involved in sap flow, it is pressure created by the freeze/thaw cycle. But I am a child of the 50's, I'm a lover not a fighter.

 

[Whitespider]

But I am a child of the 50's...

 

[NSMaple1]

mainewoods has this nailed.

Temperature has everything to do with it.

 

[Vermonster]

So your're saying what exactly??
That I'm incorrect?? Or I'm an azz because I am correct??
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No, what I said was you really should "shut the f### up", but the filter starred out the abbreviation for that.
You just blather on about anything and everything, and majority of the time you are dead wrong. People grow weary of your constant spamming of everything firewood and heating related.
Vermont is the largest producer of maple products in the US. I've spent countless hours tapping, gathering by bucket, hooking up pipeline and lots of time in the sugar house. Your idiotic comments on what makes sap flow is just another example of your bloviating nonsense.

I believe it's time you join a select group of near do wells on what I refer to as the Iggy (ignore) list. Good bye and good riddance.

 

[Whitespider]

People grow weary of your constant spamming...

You speaking for others now??
And prove me wrong about the sap if'n you're so sure.
The "running" of the sap (which is what happens during the sugaring season, it "runs" down and out of the tree) is not the same thing as the "flowing" of the sap (which can only happen after the leaves come out, and the sap "flows" up to the top of the tree)... and the leafing-out is triggered by daylight, not temperature. The sugar in your maple sap was made by the tree during last years growing season... the spring thawing and refreezing creates the pressure that allows you to simply drain it from the upper tree. Sap cannot rise to the treetop without two things, transpiration from the leaves causing a partial vacuum and a phenomenon called root pressure, which can only happen after the ground thaws... or at least is partially thawed.
So prove me wrong if you're so damn sure. Heck man, there's hundreds of books on it... should I suggest one for you??
Prove me wrong ‼
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[slowp]

Can any of youse take a camera with da sound out dere and record the noise? I've never heard it.

 

[Whitespider]

I've noticed the popping of the trees too.
What causes it.

Well... since my authority as a know-it-all is being challenged I can answer that also.
The sap of a tree is sort of a natural anti-freeze... temperatures must be something well below 32° before it will freeze solid, that temperature depends on the type of tree. When high/low temperatures are in the right range, the sap will thaw and freeze, thaw and freeze, thaw and freeze... causing the wood and bark to expand and contract. When these variables are correct to create excessive pressure, it can cause the bark to split... resulting in the "pop" noise you hear. The splits are normally small and near impossible to see, they heal-up fast as the tree comes to life in the spring... occasionally the split can be large enough to easily see if you know what to look for.
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[Marshy]

Can any of youse take a camera with da sound out dere and record the noise? I've never heard it.

I'll see if I can get a sound clip, I have a recorder on my phone. As long as the air isnt dead still I should be able to capture something, a little wind helps cause some pops. Its becomes more promenant when you have some serious temperature swings like we had 10 days ago. It was high of 40*F and low in upper 30's for a couple of days and then high of 10*F the next. I thought the trees were splitting open they were popping to hard. Not sure its doing it anymore as the temps have been in the low 20's for the last few days...

 

[slowp]

OK, if you live in an area with slope and terrain, you will note that not all trees come out of dormancy at the same time. Nor become dormant at the same time. Which they would if they only were affected by length of days. Temperature plays a part. We people of the mountains can tell you that you will need to be very very careful if allowed to log in lower elevation stands in May and June. However, you could get away with being a bit more careless if you were in the high country at the same time. Those higher elevation trees stay dormant longer. When the "sap" starts flowing up into our conifers, the bark is affected and it is easily scarred up. Trees harden up after a couple of months and are at their hardest and less prone to damage from bumping them with machinery, logs and other trees in the winter. Trees on a southern exposure will also have a longer growing season than those on a northern exposure slope. And so on...

Elevation affects temperature which plays a part in the growing season of trees. Look up photosynthesis in trees.