i might be doing a bone head move here so flame me

[Chris-PA]

It's information like in this thread that gets me frustrated. Maybe it's my military background and doing what the manual says. If the manual says (recommends) to use a certain ratio (50:1) in both my Stihl and Echo tools, why wouldn't that be the proper amount? Same with the damn ethanol vs non-ethanol.

My truck (2010 Ram 1500) manual recommends 89 Octane with no more than 10% ethanol. So guess what? That's what I use!

Just change the damn manual for those of us who trust what the manual for a product recommends! Sheesh.

One can just follow the directions, or one can try to learn about how things work and to understand the reasons behind why those directions were written, and then make one's own decisions. There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches I guess.

No doubt that Dodge has a knock sensor, which means that if you use 87 octane it will simple retard the spark if needed, which will only result in a small reduction in power.

50:1 is effective for most uses most of the time but provides little safety margin, but there are other reasons it is recommended. My Dad always mixes at 50:1 and has no issues so far. Since I know how poorly the carbs (non-AT/MT) control the mixture on these saws, and since I've noticed that some saw models that used to recommend 40:1 later changed to 50:1 with no changes to the design, I'm not comfortable at 50:1.

 

[stihl sawing]

You mean were supposed to put oil in the gas? I always just sprayed wd 40 in the cylinder between fill ups.

 

[KenJax Tree]

You mean were supposed to put oil in the gas? I always just sprayed wd 40 in the cylinder between fill ups.

Fill ups of E85 right?

 

[mdavlee]

I don't understand what bore size has to due with anything. Oil ratio should be based on quality of oil, piston speed, compression, load, temps etc. Isn't Stihl synth oil rated JASO FD? That's a pretty high rating. People have been running 50:1 in saws for years with no problems. If you want a little more insurance or increase the performance of a saw, I agree you should increase the oil to compensate. I don't understand why anyone would run an expensive oil if you have to use 50% more oil. Klotz, Belray & Maxima are not cheap oils. Or am I wrong in thinking that running Stihl oil in a stock Stihl saw at 50:1 like Stihl recommends will provide years of trouble free use.

These oils are cheaper per gallon than ultra is in my area. Ultra is $2 a gallon to mix. I can run klotz for $1.50 a gallon.

 

[stihl sawing]

Fill ups of E85 right?

Well yeah. It's a lot cheaper.

 

[mdavlee]

What about those of us using canned fuel? I'm running the Husky 50:1 premix in my AT saws, and TruFuel 50:1 in all my other saws and 2-stroke equipment. Should I be adding oil to get to 40:1 or 32:1?

I would. Those strato saws are using less oil and that means less oil is getting through there for the same amount of fuel burnt. I've seen a blued crank bearing ona saw run on 50:1 it's whole life. I've pulled several 385/390 apart with blown crank bearings and main bearings. Run on 50:1 ultra. I wouldn't run a $69 Weedeater on the stuff at 50:1.

 

[mdavlee]

I'm curious. What does the manual for a new 372 recommend in say Australia, or perhaps the Asian market? I've read on here somewhere that they recommend much richer than our EPA mandated 50:1.

View attachment 370566

Edit: from the Husqvarna Aus website OM.

It's the 3120 that is 25:1 or no warranty. I think the 880 is the same over there too.

 

[Section VIII]

If there was ever an organization that needed a manual, it would be the US military.

Are you implying something?

 

[wyk]

I don't understand what bore size has to due with anything. Oil ratio should be based on quality of oil, piston speed, compression, load, temps etc. Isn't Stihl synth oil rated JASO FD? That's a pretty high rating. People have been running 50:1 in saws for years with no problems. If you want a little more insurance or increase the performance of a saw, I agree you should increase the oil to compensate. I don't understand why anyone would run an expensive oil if you have to use 50% more oil. Klotz, Belray & Maxima are not cheap oils. Or am I wrong in thinking that running Stihl oil in a stock Stihl saw at 50:1 like Stihl recommends will provide years of trouble free use.

Generally, the larger the engine, the less RPM it is capable of in regards to two strokes, and the less time they tend to spend at higher RPM's as well.

The only thing between your piston and cylinder is a minutely thin film of oil. Every thing a two stroke does makes it try and remove that film of oil. You makes your decisions and you takes your chances.

 

[Derf]

yep,, another oil thread,,,been doing a lot of research on the different oils,, reason for that is that the echo power blend that i have been using keeps going up and up in price,, right now it is 2.50 for a 2.6 oz bottle,, enough for 1 gallon,, so i decided to do a lot of reading to see what everyone else is using,,,, i have been using the echo power blend for years with no issues but then i only cut maybe 5 cords a year too,,, i do go though a lot in my weedeater though,,, so i stopped a oreileys and got a quart of of the lucas,,,, for the 10 bucks i can mix 2x's more with the lucas then i can the echo,,, so let the flaming begin
View attachment 370079

+1 more, I've been using it and like it- performance and cost wise.

 

[naturelover]

Well, the 441 is run on Stilh motomix at 40-1. Mixed believe a tablespoon of Ultra with the quart to achieve that mix.

Also mix depends on the machine. My Gale/Evinrude outboard gets run at 16-1, but it has sleeved crank bearings instead of the rollers found in them later on.

Forget what year they changed over, but believe they were recommending 40-1 or 50-1 before the government had much to do with it.



Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Rx7man]

Here's a good thread on oil mix, from 2 stroke dirt bikes
http://forum.dirtrider.com/discussion/7169620/spooge-101-/p1

With my now-ported husky 65's (180 psi compression), 32:1 is nothing too rich, and there's NO smoke when I'm running them hard.. If I'm going to be cutting big logs, I'll mix 25:1, if I'm just putzing around with little stuff it's 32:1.
I *notice* the saw is down on power if I use 40:1 Before the rebuild, one saw had about .080" ring gap... that ring was VERY worn, and there was some scuffing on the piston and cylinder, though I'd reuse them if I needed to.

I've had great luck with lucas oil products... a gallon of 2 stroke synthetic is about $25 here and I'll probably be switching to it after I run out of the little cans.

I usually mix my oil so that I have a bit of haze, but not a cloud of smoke...

 

[Deleted member 83629]

i run 3 ozs per gallon of echo powerblend
it cost 45$ for a 1 gallon bottle and the shipping is free
the more jugs you buy the cheaper it is
http://www.russopower.com/products/echo-50-gallon-mix-of-2-cycle-oil-6450050-4/

 

[Deleted member 83629]

my grandpa has a old late 80's ryan trimmer and he says the only way it lasts is to mix 6.4 ounces of oil to l gallon of gas
20:1 seems to be working, but the skeeters hate it lol.

 

[Rx7man]

I think one of the reasons ported saws need more oil is because the crankcase gets emptied out more each time, thus the oil doesn't have much time to land on a surface and wet it... besides the fact that they pretty much all run 25% faster or more. I don't think I'd ever go as rich as 16:1... maybe in a race saw? I couldn't imagine working around one of them.
We have a Stihl 105 weedeater, it seems to do well on 40:1

 

[Deleted member 83629]

im still glad for modern oils think of how bad the smoke and fumes where when saws used a non detergent sae 30 with the gas
and the excess coking and plug fouling.

 

[gaspipe]

I've been a dirt bike guy my whole life, and I run the saws, blowers, whackers, etc all on the same stuff. 32:1 non-ethanol 93 octane gas with amsoil dominator that costs me $10/qt. Not that I care much about brand, but that stuff is readily available here and seems to get the job done. If it smokes, it probably needs rings. I run the KTM440's & 550's, the Kawi H2, 500EXC Husky and my GasGas 300 on all the same premix as my yard power stuff.

 

[Rx7man]

gaspipe, you seem to be talking about apples and oranges... if it smokes and it's a 4 stroke it needs rings.. Smoke would certainly not be the criteria for a 2 stroke needing rings though

 

[Moparmyway]

gaspipe, you seem to be talking about apples and oranges... if it smokes and it's a 4 stroke it needs rings.. Smoke would certainly not be the criteria for a 2 stroke needing rings though

 

[gaspipe]

gaspipe, you seem to be talking about apples and oranges... if it smokes and it's a 4 stroke it needs rings.. Smoke would certainly not be the criteria for a 2 stroke needing rings though

OK...Rx7man, first I will apologize for the way I wrote that. Semantics suck. I couldn't tell whether you were intending to be inflammatory, or just wondering what the heck I was talking about. My bad there. Smoke may not be a criteria for rings, as you say, but it certainly can be a wear symptom for a piston port two stroke. When the compression ring(s) are at the end of their useful life, these things will load up and make plenty of smoke out the exhaust. Reed valvers even worse. And no, I'm not talking about a four stroke, but I am assuming you are referring to the oil control rings, be them from a two or four stroke piston. All things equal, when I see one of my simple ring dingers getting smokey, compression check next. Then move deeper.

With your post, it's obvious.