661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[mdavlee]

Plug out of the 046. Been in there since I rebuilt it 1.5 years ago.

 

[whitedogone]

Plug out of the 046. Been in there since I rebuilt it 1.5 years ago.

View attachment 429502

Where did you get a hand model?

 

[Miles86]

Hey-

Notice that every factory oil for saws is sae 20 wt. (aka "injector" oil). I think this is due to the carburetor setup at the factory. A heavy oil like k2 or 800T (sae 40wt) might cause a need to slightly richen the tuning to compensate for the change in specific gravity (density) of the fuel mix? It probably wouldn't be noticed.
http://www.racegas.com/article/26
https://www.motul.com/system/produc...Factory_Line_Off_Road_TDS_(GB).pdf?1388420010
http://www.echo-usa.com/getattachment/d5e66496-3079-4374-82c2-ad427eb044e2
http://www.maxima.co.jp/images/msds/2stroke/FormulaK2.pdf

Motul oil has higher specific gravity than typical factory oil (echo) and also higher than K2.
Factory must feel the lighter oil is adequate (for warranty at least)?

 

[windthrown]

I dont think noodling is near as hard on the saw as ripping or milling though

That is correct. Noodling is the easiest way to cut wood with a chainsaw. The next easiest is cross cutting (what they are designed for). The hardest way to cut wood is ripping (chainsaw milling).

 

[windthrown]

Ack Ack!

 

[windthrown]

Also round filed full chisel loops will usually stay sharp longer than square filed. That is because there is more steel behind a round filed point than square filed. I also have found that semi-chisel round filed will stay sharp longer than full chisel round filed. That is because there is no sharp tip on semi-chisel to dull like full chisel. Some chains will vary though and this is not always the case.

Also full skip is good for noodling because it keeps the revs higher and there is more space between the cutters for the long noodles. But we are off topic here! This is supposed to be an OIL THREAD!


Ack Ack Ack Ack!

 

[_RJ_]

You guys are going to freak when you learn about bandsaw mills...

 

[Bwildered]

Just because you don't understand, doesn't mean it's rubbish.
Saw design, as in cylinder coatings, ring and piston designs and materials havent really changed since the days when 32:1 or less was recomended by the saw OEM'S. So, it's rubbish saying today's saws are designed for a certain ratio..
THe fact is ratios requirements are set by load and rpm. 50:1 came into vogue as a way to limit smoke emissions while still using realativley poor quality oils.

It is a free world so you can waste your oil & money anyway you like, but preaching about it without even testing anything then quoting irrelevant material is the impossible thing to swallow, tests have been done verified by witnesses & since then it's been a waffle fest about anything & everything but some simple testing, I don't know where you have been hiding but modern 2 stroke race bikes can run at 60:1 recommended by the manufacturer, maybe it's a time warp thing not to notice! LOL
Thansk

 

[windthrown]

You guys are going to freak when you learn about bandsaw mills...

I know about them. My neighbor in Southern Oregon had one. Made board stock by the thousands of board feet. I used to see logging trucks go the wrong way up through our easement and another mile up to his property. He got logs by the truckload for milling. One time he had a huge 6 foot DBH Ponderosa pine delivered, and he sliced that thing up like it was pasta.

 

[_RJ_]

I know about them. My neighbor in Southern Oregon had one. Made board stock by the thousands of board feet. I used to see logging trucks go the wrong way up through our easement and another mile up to his property. He got logs by the truckload for milling. One time he had a huge 6 foot DBH Ponderosa pine delivered, and he sliced that thing up like it was pasta.

That's my point. Chainsaw milling has its place. Exclusively using a chainsaw to mill and argue ratios with people that are using their saw differently isn't going to get us anywhere.

I'm not just replying to you, but rather to anyone who reads this. Different regions, methods, objectives and etc... dictate what ratios we should run.

I do like the testing of the different mix brands. I will say I have learned some stuff from those conversations. I think it's too easy and too often we find what works and just stick with that without exploring other options. Kind of like sticking with one brand of beer or whiskey and never seeing what else is out there.

 

[Moparmyway]

5 gallons of H1R with VP SEF as fuel.
Non-adjustable carb, slight lean bog at throttle tip in ............ never at full throttle long enough to wind it up to full RPM

What was in it before H1-R?

Absolutely nothing ........... it was brand new, and run exclusively on VP SEF with H1R @ 32:1 for 5 gallons.

I purchased the 5 gallon container and put in 20oz of H1R ............. then only used that fuel for this motor. This motor saw nothing else and this piston looks like this. The discolored skirt has very fine scratches in it, and have a good look at the exhaust port.

This bike runs lean with 32:1 H1R, yet shows no carbon on the piston top and no build up in the exhaust port.
The last thing I want to point out is that the exhaust port has a small little window at the top center of the port. It allows some exhaust to exit prior to the whole port being opened. What advantage does this offer, besides inducing a "pre-flow" into the exhaust port, and why would this be beneficial ?

 

[smokey7]

What is the opinion of the pit bike top end. Just my opinion but i think that looks terrible. Is that varnish just below the rings? To me for only 5 gallons with such "premium products" i would look for better. That bike should still look new for the low load its getting. Maybe h1r is not suitable for the application. What does everyone else think?

 

[Andyshine77]

Absolutely nothing ........... it was brand new, and run exclusively on VP SEF with H1R @ 32:1 for 5 gallons.
The last thing I want to point out is that the exhaust port has a small little window at the top center of the port. It allows some exhaust to exit prior to the whole port being opened. What advantage does this offer, besides inducing a "pre-flow" into the exhaust port, and why would this be beneficial ?

It's a way to reduce compression during starting I believe.

 

[mdavlee]

That bike piston looks like crap. Super burns about like that if it's not run hot enough to burn clean.

 

[Moparmyway]

Super burns about like that if it's not run hot enough to burn clean.

Evidently, so does H1R

 

[Trx250r180]

I fooled around with a loop of square a member sent me years ago. It cut ok in sugar maple, but wasn't a ton faster than my hand filed round. I found it a ***** to touch up using a goofy file and by the time I had sharpened it a half dozen times it was cutting slower than my round.
I am sure it's great stuff, but I don't have the need, nor desire to fart around with it. I also have never seen it used in the woods logging up here.

I gave up on it after my first attempts also ,then i got a grinder ........ after i found some angles i liked ,it made filing easier once i understood the cutters more ,am still learning new stuff after a few years of doing square now ,i find the 6 sided file to do a good job ,holding the file right while cutting takes a while to master ,once you do a touch up is as fast as doing round ,when cutting with square it takes a lot of the load off your saw vs round ,the off the roll stuff is ok ,but it can be made better

Saw was ran with 800 and topped off with the VP 94 and K2. It didn't blow up with the 2 oils mixed a little.

Have you tried .404 milling yet ?

 

[mdavlee]

I gave up on it after my first attempts also ,then i got a grinder ........ after i found some angles i liked ,it made filing easier once i understood the cutters more ,am still learning new stuff after a few years of doing square now ,i find the 6 sided file to do a good job ,holding the file right while cutting takes a while to master ,once you do a touch up is as fast as doing round ,when cutting with square it takes a lot of the load off your saw vs round ,the off the roll stuff is ok ,but it can be made better



Have you tried .404 milling yet ?

On the 084 and 088 I used it. I haven't tried on the shorter bars.

 

[Moparmyway]

,i find the 6 sided file to do a good job ,holding the file right while cutting takes a while to master

I have had good results with them 6 sided files (3 corner) on .404 and .375 ...................... they wont work on LoPro or .325

 

[Ron660]

I also use the 6-sided files - Vallorbe brand. I've got a triangle one but haven't used it.

 

[Ron660]

This model is similar to the Vallorbe.