A Felling Question

[pdqdl]

Yep. You should have connected those dots a long time ago.

1. Tree work is dangerous. Make a stupid mistake and you can die.
2. Tree work is still dangerous, even when you think you know what you are doing.
3. Tree work is still dangerous, even when you know damn sure what you are doing.

So...what is your point again?

Why don't you tell us a bit about yourself and your experience; then we can perhaps make some snappy conclusions about your "on the job" safety habits.

 

[Bwildered]

Yep. You should have connected those dots a long time ago.

1. Tree work is dangerous. Make a stupid mistake and you can die.
2. Tree work is still dangerous, even when you think you know what you are doing.
3. Tree work is still dangerous, even when you know damn sure what you are doing.

So...what is your point again?

Why don't you tell us a bit about yourself and your experience; then we can perhaps make some snappy conclusions about your "on the job" safety habits.

To go on the offensive is no defence for your methods, which has also been pointed out by others. As far as me, I made all those mistakes & more decades ago, the difference being I never was much for exceptionally long winded silly defences of the stupid dangerous things I did.
Thansk

 

[pdqdl]

I don't think anyone yet has identified anything stupid or dangerous that I have done. There has been an awful lot of ill-informed conjecture, but quite frankly, you guys don't know **** about what actually occurred, nor can you judge any of the actions I described.

When you look for something to criticize, it is easy to find. It is pretty easy to run your mouth (or typing fingers), but it is a lot more difficult to be correct. That is a rather skilled observation that I changed to the offensive; I am impressed by your talent. Pretty good at this internet trolling thing, aren't you?

BTW: that is defense & defenses. Spelled with an "s", not a "c". Just poking at you, 'cause it is fun. We both seem to enjoy the same trait, don't we? I see that in the only other thread that you have posted in, you were accused of being a former member that was banned. The offensive post seems to be deleted, no doubt by a moderator. What's up with that?

 

[square1]

I forget the actual numbers but most fatalities in manual falling happen within 6 or so meters of the stump

This may be one of those stats like most automobile accidents happen within 25 miles (where most driving is done) of home. It stands to reason, becaue unless you can run as fast and scream as loud as some here (with or without your saw in hand), you're going to be within 6 meters of the stump when the payment comes due.

 

[pdqdl]

I was going to bring that little gem up, too, but I just didn't get around to it yet.
Thansk.

 

[olyman]

I have not yet begun to give you crap.

Your profile says you are a logger. I'm guessing that you are good at your job and understand what it takes to survive in that environment. Now please take a lesson and learn something different: tree service ain't logging, and our goals and methods are different.

You should also understand that I have no real respect for anyone online who argues from their opinions and ignores the facts. Given that you loggers seem to have this foolish notion that you are the only persons truly qualified to cut down trees and that anyone you disagree with who is not a logger is inherently wrong, I am not surprised by your statements. I have had quite a few of these bickering matches with other loggers, and they usually take this trend: "don't argue with me, I am right because I am me, and since you are not, you are wrong."

much troof,,and you stated it so eloquently......only loggers know how to fell tress,,,pffffft!!!!

 

[Bwildered]

I don't think anyone yet has identified anything stupid or dangerous that I have done. There has been an awful lot of ill-informed conjecture, but quite frankly, you guys don't know **** about what actually occurred, nor can you judge any of the actions I described.

When you look for something to criticize, it is easy to find. It is pretty easy to run your mouth (or typing fingers), but it is a lot more difficult to be correct. That is a rather skilled observation that I changed to the offensive; I am impressed by your talent. Pretty good at this internet trolling thing, aren't you?

BTW: that is defense & defenses. Spelled with an "s", not a "c". Just poking at you, 'cause it is fun. We both seem to enjoy the same trait, don't we? I see that in the only other thread that you have posted in, you were accused of being a former member that was banned. The offensive post seems to be deleted, no doubt by a moderator. What's up with that?

we only know what you told us & we responded to that. It seems that if anybody disagrees with you they are a troller, BTW defence is spelt with a "c" in the English speaking world.
Thansk

 

[Bwildered]

This may be one of those stats like most automobile accidents happen within 25 miles (where most driving is done) of home. It stands to reason, becaue unless you can run as fast and scream as loud as some here (with or without your saw in hand), you're going to be within 6 meters of the stump when the payment comes due.

no its one of those stats that tells where tree fallers die & if you want to reduce the risks of dieing you move outside that distance in the escape zone.
Thansk

 

[HuskStihl]

There's humbolts........and then there's dumbbolts!

Technically a Swanson.

 

[bnmc98]

Quote me, or back off. I guess the 3rd option is to continue making absurd assertions in the absence of the facts.

here goes - probably a waste of time but....

`
The problem is the way you worded everything in that post.
You said you trained him and then proceeded to tell us all the things that he did to set up the worst possible scenario for that situation, all under your supervision. [Oh contraire! I didn't say anything about the worst possible scenario, and I didn't say that I trained him. This is the first day that he worked around me as an employee for another contractor.]

I was training a climber a week ago; we were sending down a 26" cottonwood. We had climbed and removed the branches that weighted the tree toward the fence we were obliged to miss. It was still leaning a bit to the west, and we wanted it to go to the SE. He wanted to put a rope on it and pull it over with my 9500 bobcat & winch, but I told him to just cut it down.

The problem is that this was not an employee and that it was not exactly my position to "train". This was a young fellow working for another contractor who just happened to be a bit green, even by his own admission. I had previously discussed him learning things from me, but it certainly was not a formal training situation.

`
Now you say there was no escape route either. [No I didn't. We were completely open on about 120° around the tree. I stated only that he left the last essential part of the cut in the most difficult position to reach]

More on the training too in green

Part of my training style is to tell people how to do things, then let them try to do it. Review, then repeat. He and I had discussed how to set the tree where we wanted it, and I had told him how to make the face cut. After that, it was all on him. There wasn't any unusual risk to this tree, although he created some by leaving the last uncut part of the tree on the most difficult side of the tree: where there was no escape path.

`
You are in a thread about how to fell a tree and here is the scenario you just painted:

I trained a rookie [No, I never called him a rookie. This is a young fellow that climbs trees for a living, swinging from a rope with a chainsaw. He had about 2 years of professional climbing experience with 3 different companies]

This was a young fellow working for another contractor who just happened to be a bit green, even by his own admission.

The problem I had was this
We are in a thread on how to cut down a tree..
You paint yourself as someone with experience and described a training situation you did...
You left out parts that you later brought up that bring some clarification, however it comes across that you trained the person to do what he did and let him do it that way.
It is one of the most dangerous ways to cut a tree like that in a already dangerous job.

I wont address your other stuff like personal attacks on loggers and me, just not into that game.

 

[square1]

no its one of those stats that tells where tree fallers die & if you want to reduce the risks of dieing you move outside that distance in the escape zone.

I don't doubt your statement. My point is the time it takes a tree being felled to cause injury or death is less than or equal to the time it takes to traverse 6 meters in the majority of situations with regard to the work conditions. It stands to reason the highest percentage of injuries and deaths occur within 6 meters. It would be interesting to know what percentage of those killed or injured inside the 6 meter zone had not yet began their escape.

Although my initial post was somewhat tongue in cheek with reference to running with or without your saw while screaming like a girl, trust me I do make safety a top priority. I want to return home every day no worse off than when I left. I wish everyone the same success.

 

[Gypo Logger]

If we can survive the trees attacking us, we can sure endure ruthless attacking by fellow members .Lol.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=UUBrYP6l33_UxuJlTsTR_z7A&v=X9Co0ieERww

 

[square1]

If we can survive the trees attacking us, we can sure endure ruthless attacking by fellow members .Lol.

I like your video, but can't bring mysef to click the "like" button due to the lack of screaming as you ran.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I really wanted to scream, but was too busy filling my pants and it wasn't with sawdust.Lol

 

[MustangMike]

And here I thought this thread would be over when I used the great advice to drop these tree w/o incident!

I still thank everyone for their advice, but really did not expect the rest of this!

 

[square1]

And here I thought this thread would be over when I used the great advice to drop these tree w/o incident!

I still thank everyone for their advice, but really did not expect the rest of this!

It's raining here, what else am I going to do?

 

[Gypo Logger]

And here I thought this thread would be over when I used the great advice to drop these tree w/o incident!

I still thank everyone for their advice, but really did not expect the rest of this!

I'm glad your tree didn't go sideways, but it appears your thread did. Lol

 

[Bwildered]

I don't doubt your statement. My point is the time it takes a tree being felled to cause injury or death is less than or equal to the time it takes to traverse 6 meters in the majority of situations with regard to the work conditions. It stands to reason the highest percentage of injuries and deaths occur within 6 meters. It would be interesting to know what percentage of those killed or injured inside the 6 meter zone had not yet began their escape.

Although my initial post was somewhat tongue in cheek with reference to running with or without your saw while screaming like a girl, trust me I do make safety a top priority. I want to return home every day no worse off than when I left. I wish everyone the same success.

One a tree starts to tip it easy to retreat a safe distance, over cutting or cutting the hinge off doesn't give enough time, me personally I take three big steps, leave the saw then take a good few more looking over my shoulder as I go to where I look & get ready to move again if needed, when falling timber up to 50 meters high stuff can be easily broken off & flicked back way past the stump, I've never seen anybody screaming as they run away, maybe we have tougher girly man types here.
Also here tree climbers & fallers need to get the same training to fall trees, fallers don't get the other skills of climbing which arborists need.
Thansk

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Thansk

You really need to edit the signature on whatever device you're posting from. Unless, of course, your name in Thanks.

 

[Bwildered]

If we can survive the trees attacking us, we can sure endure ruthless attacking by fellow members .Lol.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=UUBrYP6l33_UxuJlTsTR_z7A&v=X9Co0ieERww

I liked the baseball cap hard hat.
Thansk