chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've always run Stihl orange bottle bar oil. Does well but I was wondering if a lower viscosity oil would allow the saws oiler to pump a little faster or will this have no effect on pumping volume?
Bar oil? The other oil thread....Thin or thick?
- Thread starter chadihman
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Trx250r180
Saw polisher
the blue bottle of stihl flows faster ,the winter stuff ,i use it for milling
nyctreeman
ArboristSite Operative
I've been using Wal-Mart bar and chain oil for years, it works great, and it's made by the same companies.
All bar oil needs is the astringent, the relative thickness of the oil is irrelevant within normal parameters, obviously winter and summer viscosity is an issue for the flow, mainly needing thinner oil in winter, but the astringent is the key factor. You can use winter oil in summer with no problem at all.
The astringent is what makes the oil adhere better and not sling off as easy.
I've tested the astringent in Wal-Mart bar oil against several others, it's just as good, in some cases, it's better.
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
I run the husky oil in my stihls ,seems stickier to me ,just do not run the cheap red stuff ,your white plastics will change color after a while on a stihl
lasmacgod
ArboristSite Operative
In my limited experience, it seems that lower viscosity oil does pump better. I will be doing further experimentation in the coming months to determine if a lower viscosity oil will help compensate for stingy oilers on newer saws.
nyctreeman
ArboristSite Operative
Husky oil does have more astringent than most oils, this is true.
It's a little too much in certain conditions for my liking, but I've used it and it's good oil
Don't fancy paying $13.00 a gallon for it though.
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was thinking the pump would move the same amount of oil thick or thin unless it's to thick to get to the pump.
nyctreeman
ArboristSite Operative
In principle, this is true, however there is a resistance factor that exists even though you wouldn't notice it.
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
The engine usually warms the oil up enough ,the thicker stuff would actually stay on the chain better for lube ,if you are racing run atf ,less bar resistance ,thinner stuff is going to fly off the tip easier
sixteenacrewood
ArboristSite Member
I've been using canola oil for about 5 years now.
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
We buy Echo oil in 55 gallon drums and it works fine all year long. It pours like molasses this time of year when its cold but we keep it on the floor in the truck with the heat on so it stay pretty thin. Once the case heats up its gonna thin out anyways, pouring cold oil is the biggest problem IMO.
Astringent is a substance which causes biological tissue to contract or pull together. http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-an-astringent.htm. What is the astrigent doing in bar oil?
stihl waters
ArboristSite Operative
Posted this reply in firewood section earlier today.
Well up until 2 yrs. ago I was a faller for 30 yrs. and my 1st choice for best overall chain oil is definitely used motor oil. I can't speak for anything over an 18in. bar though. I had the option of using the so called real chain oil but didn't. Anytime I had to use the factory stuff I could immediately notice a lot more chain/bar noise,rattling chattering. I also noticed after I started using so called waste oil that bar life increased dramatically.Believe me you run a saw day in and day out you notice every little change ,noise etc. The 2 other guys on our crew noticed the same thing and one of them is a member here as well. My reasoning is what higher quality oil is there than good qual. motor oil,isn't
it designed for high temps.? Flame away but the proof is in the pudding and I've prob. did as much falling ,running chainsaws as most on here. Keeping in mind I said 18in. bar max is all I can speak to.
Well up until 2 yrs. ago I was a faller for 30 yrs. and my 1st choice for best overall chain oil is definitely used motor oil. I can't speak for anything over an 18in. bar though. I had the option of using the so called real chain oil but didn't. Anytime I had to use the factory stuff I could immediately notice a lot more chain/bar noise,rattling chattering. I also noticed after I started using so called waste oil that bar life increased dramatically.Believe me you run a saw day in and day out you notice every little change ,noise etc. The 2 other guys on our crew noticed the same thing and one of them is a member here as well. My reasoning is what higher quality oil is there than good qual. motor oil,isn't
it designed for high temps.? Flame away but the proof is in the pudding and I've prob. did as much falling ,running chainsaws as most on here. Keeping in mind I said 18in. bar max is all I can speak to.
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not going to doubt you you've been doing something I've never done. My guess is a saw would be ok running used engine oil if it was collected in a clean jug and if the oil was changed at recommended intervals. After all that oil was run through a filter over and over again. I just don't think I could bring myself to pour black oil in a saw.
nyctreeman
ArboristSite Operative
It also causes oil molecules to contract or pull together, as well as molecules similar in electrical bonding to oils, like organic tissue.
Maybe it's not the best word to use, but it is the word that was originally used in the oil biz.
Basically what it does is give it that "tackiness" you see when you put some on your fingers and it produces that stringy adhesive quality.
That's not a function of the oil itself.
You could buy the thickest viscosity oil made and it would still not function properly as bar oil.
Two different animals.
lasmacgod
ArboristSite Operative
This, though my hypothesis is that the thicker oil may only partially fill the pump chamber/cylinder, giving a lower output whereas a thinner oil would more completely fill the chamber/cylinder, thus providing a higher output per pump stroke.
I had been working on my dad's old Stihl bar oil from the 80s. That stuff is super thick, even in the summer. With modern saws, I don't have the oil on the chain I would like to see, especially when cutting dead wood. Modern 30wt bar oil seems to be a bit thinner, and appears to keep the chain coated better.
I only made the observation recently, so I will be comparing that old Stihl bar lube, Husqvarna summer 30wt bar lube, and a winter concoction I mix up by adding 5W-20 motor oil with that old Stihl bar oil, mixed by feel. I think its roughly a 50:50 mix.
Why these? Its what I have on hand. I may also add even more 5W-20 to my winter blend as well to see what happens. That old Stihl oil is certainly not lacking in tackifier.
I don't get to get out and cut as much as I like, so it may take me a while to get it done. Even then it will be more a gut feeling than anything else. I really don't cut enough to be able to scientifically analyze bar/chain wear, or compensate for varying environmental conditions. One thing I guess I could verify in just running a tank of each back to back is how much oil I use per tank of fuel between them.
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
A trick a faller told me one time is if the oiler feels like it is getting stingy ,run a tank of mix in the bar oil ,it will flush any gunk/sawdust buildup out of there ,not sure how your jeans would smell doing that though ,have never tried it myself .
nyctreeman
ArboristSite Operative
That might work on an old saw with a manual oiler, but I wouldn't put those chemicals in my automatic oiler modern seals and close tolerance metals.
I knew an old timer who insisted used motor oil was ok for bar lube ... and in the days of Mall Chainsaws ... maybe it was
lasmacgod
ArboristSite Operative
I can't bring myself to run used motor oil, either. However, I will say that I believe the thinner oil may work just fine. Not exactly the same thing, but when Ford made the switch to 5W-20, I approached it with caution. After a few used oil analyses, I found I had less wear metals in my oil than with a higher viscosity oil, even 5W-30. Many people believed that the tolerances on the engines at the time were tighter. Fact is, they weren't. The 5w-20 just flowed easier, thus the pumps were able to pump a higher volume of oil through the bearings. Now, the newest engines in which the engine oil also plays a part in cam phasing and hydraulic cylinder deactivation like the Hemi, the viscosity is more critical.
In some applications, high viscosity oils will shear down to a lower viscosity quickly, losing the effectiveness of the oil. To start with a thinner oil that doesn't shear down is much better. The guys running 6.0 PowerStrokes discovered this, and is why many run 10W-30 instead of the traditional 15W-40 oil.
TL/DR version -- a high volume of low viscosity oil that gets everywhere it needs to will work better in most situations than a lower volume of a higher viscosity oil. The lower viscosity oil will penetrate to the rivets better and should reduce component temperatures as well. Again, just hypothesis.
In some applications, high viscosity oils will shear down to a lower viscosity quickly, losing the effectiveness of the oil. To start with a thinner oil that doesn't shear down is much better. The guys running 6.0 PowerStrokes discovered this, and is why many run 10W-30 instead of the traditional 15W-40 oil.
TL/DR version -- a high volume of low viscosity oil that gets everywhere it needs to will work better in most situations than a lower volume of a higher viscosity oil. The lower viscosity oil will penetrate to the rivets better and should reduce component temperatures as well. Again, just hypothesis.
