being a sub.

[superjunior]

I do a lot of work for other companys, mostly landscapers, a couple concrete guys, a fence company, even a couple other tree services. All that subbed work probably makes up a third of our sales and gives us plenty of exposier.

Most recently I met with a very large landscape outfit who was looking for a tree service to sub their work to. After a couple meetings we decided to go ahead and roll with these guys. Their main concern was if we would be able to keep up with the volume of work they were going to send our way. Also the owner was real concerned if we had company logos on our trucks, ect..

They've been feeding us about 5-10 leads a day and it has been pretty hectic dealing with them so far. Dealing with different officers of their company, fielding leads in the office and field, trying to get things faxed back over to them the same day - its been kinda rough..

So just recently I noticed they want everything in writing to them under a "tree service" name, not their REAL company name. Then I noticed that they are advertising like crazy in all the gold clipper and coupon books under their new "tree service" name. I'm starting to not like this so much.. It's one thing for me to do subbed out work for another company, but its another thing for me to pretend I'm an officer of a fake company - even having to introduce myself to their potential clients as such..a totol lie..

It makes me feel dirty.. I donno. Money is money but I'm just not liking this at all and I'm starting to wonder how it will effect my company in the long run. What do you guys think?

 

[Blakesmaster]

I do a lot of work for other companys, mostly landscapers, a couple concrete guys, a fence company, even a couple other tree services. All that subbed work probably makes up a third of our sales and gives us plenty of exposier.

Most recently I met with a very large landscape outfit who was looking for a tree service to sub their work to. After a couple meetings we decided to go ahead and roll with these guys. Their main concern was if we would be able to keep up with the volume of work they were going to send our way. Also the owner was real concerned if we had company logos on our trucks, ect..

They've been feeding us about 5-10 leads a day and it has been pretty hectic dealing with them so far. Dealing with different officers of their company, fielding leads in the office and field, trying to get things faxed back over to them the same day - its been kinda rough..

So just recently I noticed they want everything in writing to them under a "tree service" name, not their REAL company name. Then I noticed that they are advertising like crazy in all the gold clipper and coupon books under their new "tree service" name. I'm starting to not like this so much.. It's one thing for me to do subbed out work for another company, but its another thing for me to pretend I'm an officer of a fake company - even having to introduce myself to their potential clients as such..a totol lie..

It makes me feel dirty.. I donno. Money is money but I'm just not liking this at all and I'm starting to wonder how it will effect my company in the long run. What do you guys think?

Sounds like a bad deal to me. Branding is very important, just look at AA and his dumb operation. He didn't know a thing about tree work but he developed a brand people trusted. Sounds like this guy is doing the same thing. IMO, you'd be better off developing your own brand and letting this new "tree service" eat it.

 

[Grace Tree]

I do a lot of work for other companys, mostly landscapers, a couple concrete guys, a fence company, even a couple other tree services. All that subbed work probably makes up a third of our sales and gives us plenty of exposier.

Most recently I met with a very large landscape outfit who was looking for a tree service to sub their work to. After a couple meetings we decided to go ahead and roll with these guys. Their main concern was if we would be able to keep up with the volume of work they were going to send our way. Also the owner was real concerned if we had company logos on our trucks, ect..

They've been feeding us about 5-10 leads a day and it has been pretty hectic dealing with them so far. Dealing with different officers of their company, fielding leads in the office and field, trying to get things faxed back over to them the same day - its been kinda rough..

So just recently I noticed they want everything in writing to them under a "tree service" name, not their REAL company name. Then I noticed that they are advertising like crazy in all the gold clipper and coupon books under their new "tree service" name. I'm starting to not like this so much.. It's one thing for me to do subbed out work for another company, but its another thing for me to pretend I'm an officer of a fake company - even having to introduce myself to their potential clients as such..a totol lie..

It makes me feel dirty.. I donno. Money is money but I'm just not liking this at all and I'm starting to wonder how it will effect my company in the long run. What do you guys think?

It sounds like they're trying to build an identity as a tree service and suck up market share using your skills and equipment. While that may work for you now, there may come a point where, as their business increases, you become less important to them and interchangeable with some other tree service. Kind of like the independent contractor installing satellite dishes. I'm probably full of crap but you just may be building up your future competition.
Phil

 

[superjunior]

Sounds like a bad deal to me. Branding is very important, just look at AA and his dumb operation. He didn't know a thing about tree work but he developed a brand people trusted. Sounds like this guy is doing the same thing. IMO, you'd be better off developing your own brand and letting this new "tree service" eat it.

It sounds like they're trying to build an identity as a tree service and suck up market share using your skills and equipment. While that may work for you now, there may come a point where, as their business increases, you become less important to them and interchangeable with some other tree service. Kind of like the independent contractor installing satellite dishes. I'm probably full of crap but you just may be building up your future competition.
Phil

kinda what I was thinking too. I'm pretty much competing with myself here. It was a different story when I thought I was doing subbed work for a landscape company but they're even advertising as a local familly owned tree service. Totol bulls##t..

 

[NCTREE]

Don't do it, you'll regret it at some point. Yeah the works nice but eventually you get screwwd in the deal.

 

[tree md]

I went through that same deal a few years back. I got out while the getting was good. Only time I will sub is if I am in another state doing storm work or something like that. I'm not into helping out my competition. Why work for a lower percentage to build someone else's name??? Nothing good can come from that.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Sounds like a bad deal. I wouldnt say introduce yourself with there company name. Also, my name stays one the side of my trucks. Its free advertising. I would just tell them your concerns and tell them you will be happy to sub for them, but your not gonna lie. If a customer asks, your gonna tell them that your a sub. When I have someone help me out, if a customer askes, I tell them that they are helping me out, and that they subs. No matter if you do good work or not, you get caught lying to a customer, it will spread like wildfire.

 

[Treewound]

I agree with several of the others who responded to this thread. They are using you, your skills, your equipment, etc. to build up their reputation, and you are in fact competing against yourself.
I am assuming that the money is good otherwise you would not work for them. The key here is when you start to sacrafice your clients to meet the commitments of "their" clients!
Also, at some point, they will realize that a significan portion of "your" business is doing "their" business. That is when they may start to put the sqeeze on you on what they are willing to pay you. Can you afford to, or do you want to expand your business to meet their needs and your own? If you do, what happens to the equipment and staff if/or when they decide to put the squeeze on you?
In this economy this is a tough decision, nobody wants to pass on any business. Remember to keep control of your own destiny.

 

[flushcut]

Run, don't walk away. They are using you. If you want to keep working with them then put your foot down otherwise you will used and abused. I would keep your signage on your trucks period, you are subbing for them not a employee. It sounds to me that they want to have a tree service but don't want the overhead. I have seen this kind of BS before and it does not end well bad feelings and lawsuits to follow.

 

[tree md]

Lots of landscaping outfits try to expand to the tree service market. How I deal with this is to advertise in their venues and categories, distinguish myself as a tree service and advocate why going with a tree service is more beneficial. If they want to advertise and compete in your arena then there is nothing stopping you from advertising and competing in theirs.

 

[Pelorus]

That large landscape outfit is obviously doing something "right" with their brand marketing if they are able to feed you that large call volume. BUT, if they are behaving unethically, which they are by the sounds of what you wrote, I'd be inclined to fill my work week with other leads.

I sub on a regular basis for two other tree services - the business relationship has worked out well (for going on 15 years for both). You get to see how others run their operations firsthand, what equipment works / doesn't work for them, etc. It has also allowed me to spend little time & money on advertising/marketing. (kinda ashamed to admit I don't even have a website yet - still in the Dark Ages). It has also allowed me to take on jobs that would have otherwise been beyond the scope of what I could have done with the equipment I have. I help them, they help me.

As long as it is a two - way street, I don't see anything wrong with being a sub. I have also been involved with a couple of "characters" over the years who believed I could be their ticket to fortune. Those business relationships never lasted very long at all, and offhand I can recall one who died, one who eventually declared personal bancruptcy & lost his house & marriage, and one other fellow who just about went belly up, but had to scale back his Become a Millionaire scheme drastically. That last guy was a decent builder, who had the notion that he would become the kingpin of an organization that would have a landscape division, tree service, pool maintenance, house renos, etc.

 

[arborjockey]

I get hired to cut 1-2 days a week for other tree companies. For a landscape company, ohhh...I don't know their insurance usally covers up to 16' so they try to sub the rest out to cover their ass. But 10 leads a day in these times is rare. Are you charging them good $. You have to pay for what you don't know and they don't know trees. Make them work around you and meet your schedule. Tell them your the baddest sum ##### in the county and their lucky to have you help them out. 10 leads a day id hire someone to work directly with them.

 

[Como]

Nothing wrong about operating as a DBA.

Whether you want that sort of relationship is another matter.

 

[formationrx]

random thoughts.....

....i would not put up with that ####.... one of the reasons i have a bus. is so i can be independent.... if you dont 100% trust who you are working with you'll end up being used, abused, and tattooed... i learned the hard way.... when i started out i helped 2 other companies..... the first one did not know anything and i tried to help them.... but the owner was too much of a macho stunt man... he did not listen and thought he could do everything..... i watched him destroy power lines... climb up a 40 ft painters ladder with an extendo saw... drive his bucket thru town with phone lines dragging behind it and the gate swinging wide open.... i told him to FO..... the other company was a landscaper crew... they just plain bugged me to death and always tried to make me feel guilty if i could not drop everything and go help them... i got tired of it.... SJ i think your nose is starting to smell something.... dont let that hint of stink now turn into burnt diaper later....

 

[himiler]

Agreed on the smell test, also if it doesn't pass the Boy Scout Law test then walk away.
I watched a company sub for another larger company until one day the larger company replaced them with their own in house crew. Guess who went bankrupt. The company you're talking about has already demonstrated no loyalty to you but expects 100% from you. Every time you dedicate time and effort to them takes away from you and your future and adds to theirs.
Steve
A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

 

[treeclimber101]

I am a sub too man for a very large company , and they even made me magnetics for the trucks , and after almost 5 years I can still depend on them for a very large portion of the work we do , and honestly were all someones whore at some point , it just helps when it pays well the taste is much easier to swallow

 

[TimberJack_7]

Hey Dan, is it that company from out on the west side? The way you described him sounds an awful lot like the one I spoke to back in late November, early December, especially the part about being able to handle their volume of work and logos on the door. The guy sounded like kind of a prick so when I looked at a job for him over in Mayfield Heights, I threw him a number that was a little on the high side and never heard back from him. Went through my emails to see if I could find his name and the name of the company but I must have deleted all the info. Seems like his last name was italian....

 

[TimberJack_7]

He had me go look at two trees in an apartment complex, one was a pin oak and I think the other was a locust....did you end up looking at those also? Apt. complex was Golden something right there by 271 and Mayfield/322.

 

[superjunior]

He had me go look at two trees in an apartment complex, one was a pin oak and I think the other was a locust....did you end up looking at those also? Apt. complex was Golden something right there by 271 and Mayfield/322.

BINGO!! we have a winner here! I actually got that job from them Mike, LOL! I think they've called every tree outfit in the city. I'll pm you with the dirty details but I think I'm out... My phone's ringin off the hook anyway, I don't need this BS from dirty players, I'm quite happy with the honest folks I deal with

 

[superjunior]

Really appreciate everyones input here, gave me lots to think about. As a few mentioned money is money and there really isn't nothing wrong with subbing (works well for me) but the people I sub for and sub for me have a good level of ethics and respect, guess that's what it really boils down to...

Gonna tell the new kids on the block to take a hike..