Building An 064 With A MS 660 BB Kit

[Mastermind]

I don't want to derail your thread too far, Randy, but as long as you're comparing apples to grapefruit.....I'll throw in an orange.

Those 262 #'s are almost exactly what that Dolmar 119 was stock and I went and "improved it" on the intake and it seems lazy to spool up now......Sometimes a guy needs to accept what works I'm thinking.:msp_confused:

The Husqvarna has less case volume than a Stihl. They like different numbers. The 262 is a fairly large bore sitting on a small case. The gain I had in intake timing occurred as a result of dropping the jug. I didn't change port height or trim the skirt.

I know little about a Dolly.

 

[Mastermind]

I don't want to derail your thread too far, Randy, but as long as you're comparing apples to grapefruit.....I'll throw in an orange.

Those 262 #'s are almost exactly what that Dolmar 119 was stock and I went and "improved it" on the intake and it seems lazy to spool up now......Sometimes a guy needs to accept what works I'm thinking.:msp_confused:

Derailing is a way of life. Where did your numbers end up Rob?

 

[jockeydeuce]

The Husqvarna has less case volume than a Stihl. They like different numbers. The 262 is a fairly large bore sitting on a small case. The gain I had in intake timing occurred as a result of dropping the jug. I didn't change port height or trim the skirt.

I know little about a Dolly.

Being the noob that I am at this stuff, maybe increasing the intake timing with the case volume the Dolly has is a bad thing?.....No knowledge comes without some mistakes.

I still haven't had time to test run the thing in some wood, so maybe it will shine once the revs are up.

Anyway.....Back to big bore 064's.

 

[parrisw]

It opens and closes at 68° from TDC so you can double the number to get duration on the intake port.

Right. Don't know what I was thinking. Thanks.

I got one of those 262, I've never actually used it, just fired it up once. Its in such nice shape I hate to make it dirty. I thought about porting it too, but I think I'll just leave well enough alone.

 

[jockeydeuce]

Derailing is a way of life. Where did your numbers end up Rob?

Stock #'s (Duration).....I thought the Ex and Trans were close enough to perfect so left them.

Exhaust... 160*
Transfers...120*
Intake.......138*

My final #'s

Exhaust... 160*
Transfers...120*
Intake.......156*

 

[Mastermind]

Stock #'s (Duration).....I thought the Ex and Trans were close enough to perfect so left them.

Exhaust... 160*
Transfers...120*
Intake.......138*

My final #'s

Exhaust... 160*
Transfers...120*
Intake.......156*

I would have taken a smaller bite.

When I see an engine with a short intake duration I change it in small amounts. Your transfer numbers, is that the opening point or duration???

 

[jockeydeuce]

All those #'s are duration, Randy......Like I said, "Live and learn".:bang:

 

[Mastermind]

All those #'s are duration, Randy......Like I said, "Live and learn".:bang:

It ain't cooked yet. How much compression is it making?

Could you raise the transfers 2 degrees?

 

[jockeydeuce]

It ain't cooked yet. How much compression is it making?

Could you raise the transfers 2 degrees?

I probably could, but I don't have those sweet 90 degree tools you have (yet). I blended the transfers toward the intake with a stone.

I haven't actually checked the comp with a gauge yet.....I will test run it as is for a tank or so before making any more moves on it.....I was going to cut some cookies this weekend, but it's -20 outside and I just don't have the ambition.....I'm more into throwing another log on the fire.

 

[Mastermind]

I probably could, but I don't have those sweet 90 degree tools you have (yet). I blended the transfers toward the intake with a stone.

I haven't actually checked the comp with a gauge yet.....I will test run it as is for a tank or so before making any more moves on it.....I was going to cut some cookies this weekend, but it's -20 outside and I just don't have the ambition.....I'm more into throwing another log on the fire.

OK now I remember why I live in Tennessee.

Raising the transfers a few degrees should get back the snap. You could thin the flywheel key and advance the ignition timing a couple of degrees too. Easy to change back if it does no good.

 

[jockeydeuce]

I appreciate the input!!! I'm going to see what it does in the cut.....If it's got top end torque and can hold some RPM, I won't change anything...It's not brutally lazy. Just not the kind of snap I've seen in other saws that I've just widened the ports and done lots of blending on....This project was all about experimenting and having some fun scattering some aluminum....This is the first one I actually slapped the degree wheel on

 

[Scooterbum]

Great thread Randy
I have 2 064's on the bench right now waiting to see the final outcome.

Well 1 at least, the 1 is getting an old flat top 066 topend. But the other...........well we'll see.

I'm finishing up that early 066 I want to send to you when you get time.The little one gave me permission to go out in the shop this morning.

Also there's a box going out on monday for ya'. What color on the sticker stuff again? I forgot 10 minutes after we got off the phone:redface:

 

[Mastermind]

Great thread Randy
I have 2 064's on the bench right now waiting to see the final outcome.

Well 1 at least, the 1 is getting an old flat top 066 topend. But the other...........well we'll see.

I'm finishing up that early 066 I want to send to you when you get time.The little one gave me permission to go out in the shop this morning.

Also there's a box going out on monday for ya'. What color on the sticker stuff again? I forgot 10 minutes after we got off the phone:redface:

White on the stickers Steve. I'll have to store them for God only knows how long. I need a paint job on the old car.

This build is turning into something I never planned from the onset. The more I think about it the more sense it makes. The big bore could probably use the added case volume that a spacer under the jug will provide. The 395 piston is on it's way from Greece.

 

[mtngun]

The early 066 jugs have around 162-166 on the exhaust and 160-166 on the intake and 20 or so blowdown will hands down wax the behind of any of the later model decomp jugs with 170 or more on the intake and exhaust. That's in stock form BTW.

Compression ratio matters, Wiggs.

Think of selecting a cam for a small block chevy. A hi duration cam that works well in a high compression engine will be gutless in a low compression stock engine. You have to match the duration to the compression ratio.

The current Bailey's 066BB has a much higher compression ratio than the late model OEM jugs. The higher compression ratio tolerates more duration, yet still produces satisfactory mid range power.

My stock 066BB gave the fastest milling speed of any 1 piece top end I tested. Plus, it could comfortably lug down to 6000 rpm, while most OEM top ends are gutless below 8000 rpm. Plus, it used less fuel than any other 1 piece top end I tested.

Part of the problem I see on these build threads is that you guys test saws by cutting cookies. A 460 may smoke a 880 cutting cookies, but the 880 will smoke the 460 on a mill. 066's are not made for cutting cookies. If you want to give them a good work out, put them on a mill and test the milling speed. Whether a BB "winds up" as fast as a red light is absolutely meaningless on a mill.

 

[Mastermind]

Compression ratio matters, Wiggs.

Think of selecting a cam for a small block chevy. A hi duration cam that works well in a high compression engine will be gutless in a low compression stock engine. You have to match the duration to the compression ratio.

The current Bailey's 066BB has a much higher compression ratio than the late model OEM jugs. The higher compression ratio tolerates more duration, yet still produces satisfactory mid range power.

My stock 066BB gave the fastest milling speed of any 1 piece top end I tested. Plus, it could comfortably lug down to 6000 rpm, while most OEM top ends are gutless below 8000 rpm. Plus, it used less fuel than any other 1 piece top end I tested.

Part of the problem I see on these build threads is that you guys test saws by cutting cookies. A 460 may smoke a 880 cutting cookies, but the 880 will smoke the 460 on a mill. 066's are not made for cutting cookies. If you want to give them a good work out, put them on a mill and test the milling speed. Whether a BB "winds up" as fast as a red light is absolutely meaningless on a mill.

What you are saying is completely true. I agree with your line of thought most of the time. I will say this though, I've never cut cookies with either my red light or this big bore saw. Nor have I milled with either. I ran them both with bars 28" long, noodling blocks in to manageable pieces so I could finish them with the log splitter. The big bore just ain't there with my older saw. There could be other factors at play to cause this, I don't claim to have all the answers by any means. I am enjoying the conversation though.

 

[parrishturf]

What you are saying is completely true. I agree with your line of thought most of the time. I will say this though, I've never cut cookies with either my red light or this big bore saw. Nor have I milled with either. I ran them both with bars 28" long, noodling blocks in to manageable pieces so I could finish them with the log splitter. The big bore just ain't there with my older saw. There could be other factors at play to cause this, I don't claim to have all the answers by any means. I am enjoying the conversation though.

Hey...

Did you get it running, I followed along as you posted and I am not sure if you tested yet or not. I would love to see a video!

 

[Mastermind]

I'll upload a video. It's boring to watch to me though. I've got it back apart putting a 395 Husqvarna piston in it right now.

 

[Mastermind]

[video=youtube;ci3EHPNKL18]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci3EHPNKL18[/video]

 

[parrishturf]

I think that saw cuts pretty well. I know it is not the monster you had hoped for yet, but look at the results. You took a tired old 064 and invested some time for sure but no where near the cost of new Stihl parts and that saw is ready to go to work again. I look forward to seeing the new pistons results.

You said you raised the ports 2 degrees, since I don't use a degree wheel yet could you estimate how much that is in thousands.

 

[jpankey]

yeah I am waiting for the upload video . I just recently posted my 064 running . I hope to get video today of it attacking some wood . I went the other way I guess 185 psi compression from milling the base down on a H@L supply bb kit. Its hard to hold the phone thats videoing and work the trigger but it got some video.