Cat Mufflers and the EPA Bad???

[nikocker]

It seems on this site that any talk of a saw being equipped with a CAT muffler or an EPA saw meets with a big time negative reaction. "EPA saws are a POS" etc.

I for one have the new 346XP in the Etech version, and almost to a man from the guys on this site I received suggestions like "order the Non - cat muffler it will run better, won't burn up" etc.

I guess the question I have is is there a way of telling if there is an actual higher incidence of saw failure - just because the saw is Etech or CAT-muffed or is it merely a perception or speculation? How do you know?

Has any one other than the saw manufacturers done any testing to prove wrong this fear that members have that an Etech saw is doomed to fail if left unchecked? I have a bit of a hardtime believing that they are just "bad" because they are Etech. If they were, why would Husky warrant them for two years like all their other saws?

The reason I mention Husky while I'm on the subject of manufacturers addressing the problem -- is that it seems Husky has dived headlong into the EPA and Etech arena with a number of Etech saws in their offerings. Yet on the Stihl website they only list 4 saws as being "green" and three(3) of those are electric!!! The only gas model listed is the 441!

I don't know but it seems like Stihl may be complacent in letting some other company do the R&D to solve the emmission/performance equation. Or maybe they're not going to do something until they are forced to!?

Just curious as to what you all think. I'm going to run my NE346 the way it was designed and I'll let you all know if I have problems.

Al

 

[huskydave]

The cat muffler holds more heat therefore increasing operating temperature. The unrestricted or muffler modded muffler expells the heat quickly and gives you more usable power.

 

[nikocker]

I understand the rational -

But does it mean the saw WILL fail or is it designed to run that way? Husky thinks it will run that way, cuz they warrant it for two years!

Al

 

[huskydave]

It will not fail if it is adjusted properly. If you paid for a saw capable of 4 horsepower why settle for 3.5 because the exhaust is too restricted.

 

[HUSKYMAN]

I havent seen anyone say a saw with a cat muffler will live a shorter life. I am sure they will live long happy lives or the manufacturers would not sell them and risk their reputations.

Cat mufflers are better for the environment be worse for performance. This forum is about getting the most out of your saws so no one wants a cat muffler. If you went to a treehugger site then they would chastise us for removing the emissions equipment.

If you want to keep your saw stock with the Cat muffler and do your share to help the planet go ahead. Your saw will give many years of good service.

I myself like to save the environment in everything EXCEPT my chainsaws, thats one little area in my life that I refuse to cut back on.

 

[country boy]

Just my own personal experience with my 2159 with the cat . When i first got the saw went to block up a couple of trees with it during the summer and that darn muffler got so hot it was just about unbearale to hang on to the saw. so i ordered a new non cat muffler and huge difference in getting hot. My 353 husky ran it for a very short time and started melting plastic on top cover that didnt impress me much so i modded that one . I guess my biggest gripe is the heat that these produce .

 

[nikocker]

Not sure

It will not fail if it is adjusted properly. If you paid for a saw capable of 4 horsepower why settle for 3.5 because the exhaust is too restricted.

Husky Dave - I paid for a saw rated at 3.7 hp just like the non Etech is rated at 3.7 hp - but who's doing the tests to say the Etech is DOWN on power compared to the Non Etech? Has any reputable source run them head to head?

Sure anything can be modded, no argument there, but the point of my initial question was to find out if there was factual evidence ( tests , surveys etc.) that definitely proved CAT muffed and Etech saws where more prone to failure.

Thanks - Al

 

[huskydave]

Well I think that a cooler running aircooled engine will last longer. If that were not true we could start cutting cooling fins off our flywheels to make them lighter. You could post a thread with a poll to see what the others think if you want. I don't think a survey has been conducted but it may not be a bad idea to start a poll.

 

[Lakeside53]

I'm not so sure an engine runs materially hotter.

Cylinder fins didn't increase when they closed up mufflers and added cats to existing models. Even Stihl's BR420 blower didn't increase cylinder fins when they put the cat on, and that muffler runs incredibly hot.


The other side of the equation is that more HP = more heat... An engine is far less than 100% efficient....

 

[Kansas]

Great idea a poll on the subject I would really like some folks with actual facts to weigh in on this subject!

I have taken the cat off my 359 because it always seemed to be doggy and underpowered and I have adjusted the carb to the best it can be, I have not tried it out yet but I have high hopes for it!

 

[Kansas]

It will not fail if it is adjusted properly. If you paid for a saw capable of 4 horsepower why settle for 3.5 because the exhaust is too restricted.

Good point, I have an idea about that because as a kid I played around with tuning 2 stokes and back pressure causes the biggest problem in tuning a 2 stroke, the lack of back pressure is almost as bad as too much.

Ok so do we trust Husqvarna to know how to tune these saws with a cat on or do we assume we can just throw parts (all be it factory parts) at an E-Tech and get a positive pre epa result hummm? I am one that is planning to swap a cat out also but I understand the tuning issue and have absolutely no way to prove how much power is gained or lost???

 

[huskydave]

Any good dealer can adjust your saw to run properly. I have no doubt that a cat muffler transfers more heat to the cylinder and increases the operating temperature. It is almost imposible to prove how this effects the life of the saw. Their are so many factors that effect the life of the saw such as oil/fuel ratio, type of fuel, type of oil run, how the saw is cared for how it is run example: with a dull chain or not, if it is adjusted correctly etc...

 

[nikocker]

No Treehugger Here

If you want to keep your saw stock with the Cat muffler and do your share to help the planet go ahead. Your saw will give many years of good service.

I myself like to save the environment in everything EXCEPT my chainsaws, thats one little area in my life that I refuse to cut back on.

Huskyman - I think it's safe to assume that chainsaws by their nature are sort of anti-envioronmental and like you I'm a guy that likes saws - I own six! I'm going to run my saw the way it came not to prove that I'm environmentally conscious but to gain first hand info on wether or not Etech saws are less reliable than non Etech saws! I'm really hoping that they are just as dependable!

Al

 

[nikocker]

I agree!

Any good dealer can adjust your saw to run properly. I have no doubt that a cat muffler transfers more heat to the cylinder and increases the operating temperature. It is almost imposible to prove how this effects the life of the saw. Their are so many factors that effect the life of the saw such as oil/fuel ratio, type of fuel, type of oil run, how the saw is cared for how it is run example: with a dull chain or not, if it is adjusted correctly etc...

+1
That's what I was getting at - - there ARE a lot of factors that effect the saw's life. That's what puzzled me - why there seemed to be this big negative attitude toward Etech saws just because they were Etech or CAT muffed.

Al

 

[Lakeside53]

Apart from a handfull of guys on other forums, and some AS members, nobody else give it a second thought. Buy saw... cut wood..

 

[GASoline71]

Apart from a handfull of guys on other forums, and some AS members, nobody else give it a second thought. Buy saw... cut wood..

Don't forget to "break it in"... LMAO...

Gary

 

[nikocker]

That's what I'll do!

Apart from a handfull of guys on other forums, and some AS members, nobody else give it a second thought. Buy saw... cut wood..

Got the buying part done -- need to get back in the woods!
Al

 

[nikocker]

Don't forget to "break it in"... LMAO...

Gary

Hey Gas -
What EPA approved oil mix would you recommend for break in?
Just Kiddin'
Al

 

[Kansas]

Hey y'all I just got my non-epa exhaust for my 346 in the mail so I probably will give it a try this coming weekemd. I will let you guys know how much cooler it runs and if I was able to adjust the carb correctly etc.

I am not a big believer in changing things especially on new equipment so this is a stretch for me, my E-Tech 359 is my only experience with cats and I really believe it showed the signs of being restricted. My 346NE doesnt seem to mind the cat though so who knows.

 

[retired redneck]

cat mufflars

cat mufflars are a big joke only raise price of saw use 91 or better oct and full syn oil mixed right for saw no smoke little pol