Chain sharpening

[Ax-man]

Learn to file by eye and by hand with a file. It is not hard but does take practice. I have a hard time understanding why people find hand filing so difficult.

Grinders are a pain to me. You have to take the chains off and then put them back on.

I do this for living so filing by hand is no big deal. I have a grinder and have tried some of the guides that are out there. I still get the best results with a file and find myself going back to filing by hand simply for the simplicity and speed of hand filing.

I have tried to teach my son who is also in this business of ours. He just doesn't have my touch and uses a guide that clamps onto the bar. He gets good results, better than I could ever get using one. I have been impressed with his improved sharpening. He has the patience for using a clamp on file guide. It is a slow going affair though. I can do two large saws to his one.

This might be an option for you.

 

[Typhoon]

I agree with the three posts before mine. Hand file! I learned from a logger, who just didnt have time to set up a grinder, file guide, etc. He filed his chains in about 5 minutes, and they were like new. I learned and perfected it myself and I am glad I did. Saves time. I usually find a log or a stump, make a cut into it about 1/3rd the bar depth (to use as a makeshift vise to hold the bar) then go to town on it. 5-7 minutes it is as sharp as new, and cuts perfectly true. I carry a spare chain only in case I damage or rock one out bad. I do believe there is an art to it, but once you got it, you got it. Plus, by using a file, you don't take the temper out of the steel like you do with a grinder. Stays sharp longer. And file guides, imho just get in the way!

 

[ggosling]

Thanks,for all the advice.

I ordered a file guide/frame from my supplier a stihl product he recommended and now will try to get a decent grinder.

Has anyone had any experience with the Super Jolley, is it worth the extra coin or should I do I look for a 511a or replica?

Garry

 

[MCW]

Go to your local dealer, tell him you want to buy some files and you want him to show you how to sharpen. If he won't do that, he's not the guy you want to do business with anyhow, so move on to another dealer who will.

Why would you trust a dealer to show you how to file? Some may know what they're doing, the rest would just make out they know. The only guys I would trust to show me how to properly file would be forestry guys (no offence to anyone else here) as they most definately have to know what they're doing as it's their livelihood (I'd trust BobL too as he does it on long milling bars for fun). I wouldn't trust one dealer in my area to show you how to file (including myself) as they only grind chains anyway.

Both. File for touch ups or final edges. Grinder for heavy sharpening.

You didn't buy cheap saws; I would recommend getting good quality files and a good quality grinder (Oregon 511A / Tecomec / etc.). Less fussing to 'mod'/fix it, parts available, better re-sale value, etc. Lots of posts on grinders in A.S. if you search for them.

Sharpening might be monotonous, but should not be tedious. Use good stuff to give yourself an 'edge'.

Philbert

Well said mate. No "Anti-grinder" propoganda in that comment

anyone who considers themselves a "cutter" should be able to hand file. always learn to hand file before using a grinder.

This Redgum below soaked up about 6-7 chains. Non stop cutting for over a hour. If you're in a forest with nice green, clean wood by all means touch up your chain with a file. I felled a hard as steel Box tree just out of the shot about half this tree's size. With some termites and dirt in the centre I went through 3 chains just to get it on the ground. I went through a further 3 chains for about a 1/4 pf the wood in this Redgum.
Myself and the guy in the photo both own chainsaw supply businesses but also cut hardwood for firewood. With tough, dirty timber like this you'd spend more time filing than cutting. We'll just swap out chains and grind them later. We can both file OK, but it's too time consuming under some conditions. We work full time in other jobs during the week so don't have enough time to cut what we need to on weekends, certainly not enough time to file every blunt chain.

Once you learn to file you can sharpen a chain faster than you can swap one out.

Maybe you should start using a few longer bars - I think you'll change your mind. Definately won't apply with the following bars...

I'll give you a race. You filing and me swapping
Not trying to be nasty, it's just not the case at all.

 

[Vibes]

Come on MCW, you should be able to file that skip tooth in half the time. Ha ha.

Just curious though, do you notice if the saw is working harder when you run your hardnose long bars. I run an 18'' hardnose on my 2065 and don't notice any decrease in power.

 

[Philbert]

Once you learn to file you can sharpen a chain faster than you can swap one out. I only carry a spare in case of breakage.

I agree with MCW. Touch-ups are one thing. I do storm damage clean-up and frequently find 'surprises' (rocks, metal, roofing, etc.) in the wood that dull a tooth back a long way. Carry 3 chains per saw and swap them out in the field, then grind/sharpen/repair back at the shop.

Different strokes . . .

Philbert

 

[sbhooper]

If you are just an occasional cutter, a good grinder is a big investment for no more than it is used. Hand filing is not difficult. I have finally gotten comfortable with it after lots of trial and error and using a couple different guides. The STihl file guide (or Oregon) is a real good one and gives you the angle marks and your file is at the right depth. The rakers are very important and are easily adjusted with a good gauge like a Fil-O-Plate from Carlton or the single-prong gauge from Oregon.

I only replace a chain when it is worn out. When it is time to gas up, I also file the chain as I am usually ready for a break anyway. I have a board with a C-clamp that I use to hold the saw while I file it-as good a a vice. It only takes 5-10 minutes to sharpen the chain depending on how much rock or wire you hit with it.

You don't have to worry about the motor quitting on a file.

 

[BobL]

I'll give you a race. You filing and me swapping
Not trying to be nasty, it's just not the case at all.

It depends if you are talking a full sharpen or just a touch up, and with the CS in or out of a mill. If one starts out with a well sharpened chain and the rakers set a little over deep a complete resharpen is unnecessary and only a light touch up (2/3 strokes per cutter) is needed

With 42" bar and 5 skip 404 chain in twin bar clamp type type mill, I reckon I could come close to beating you. I can touch up a cutter in about 2 strokes or 3 seconds. a 5 skip chain on a 42" bar only has about 12 cutters so that about 40 seconds by the time I walk around the mill to file from the other side. How quickly can you swap out a chain on a CS in a mill?

Even on a 3/8 - 42" bar with full comp 3/8 chain I touch up the whole chain in ~200 seconds. I prefer to do this rather than swapping out. I'm not doing this for a living so time is not an issue for me.

 

[Philbert]

I only replace a chain when it is worn out.

I respect the different approaches and preferences regarding sharpening, but this comment brings up a related issue: sprocket wear.

Most of the chain companies discourage mating a used sprocket and a new chain, or vice-versa, due to uneven wear. Oregon, for example, recommends rotating 2 - 3 new chains with a new sprocket, then replacing the sprocket when the chains are worn out.

I know that this is an approximate measurement, and is good for them to sell more sprockets, but if you are using up chains one-at-a-time, rather than rotating them, you may be causing extra wear on your sprockets and drive links than you would by swapping between a few chains on a regular basis.

Philbert

 

[TraditionalTool]

No matter what you decide, learn to file!

Garry,

No matter what you decide, definitely learn to sharpen by hand with a file as the lowest common denominator. Being able to sharpen with a file is a skill that everyone using a chainsaw should know, IMO, because you can do wonders with a $2 file in the woods. This is not rocket science after all...

Make sure you always use a handle on the file tang also, even if just a twig and/or stick laying around.

Cheers,
TT

 

[edisto]

I always have filed by hand, and I must be screwing it up, because there doesn't seem to be much to it.

Now that I'm doing more cutting than I used to, I bought a Granberg File-N-Joint guide (the kind that attaches to the bar) so that I can make sure the angles are right once I get through a substantial portion of the tooth...basically, to let me "reset" the angles to where they should be because I know I'm not ever going to be exact by hand.

I'm guessing the reverse process (starting with the guide) would be a great way to learn how to sharpen by hand. As others have noted...it is an essential thing to learn, because you will cut more effectively if you can touch up the chain every tank or 2.

 

[AUSSIE1]

:greenchainsaw:

Why would you trust a dealer to show you how to file? Some may know what they're doing, the rest would just make out they know. The only guys I would trust to show me how to properly file would be forestry guys (no offence to anyone else here) as they most definately have to know what they're doing as it's their livelihood (I'd trust BobL too as he does it on long milling bars for fun). I wouldn't trust one dealer in my area to show you how to file (including myself) as they only grind chains anyway.

This Redgum below soaked up about 6-7 chains. Non stop cutting for over a hour. If you're in a forest with nice green, clean wood by all means touch up your chain with a file. I felled a hard as steel Box tree just out of the shot about half this tree's size. With some termites and dirt in the centre I went through 3 chains just to get it on the ground. I went through a further 3 chains for about a 1/4 pf the wood in this Redgum.
Myself and the guy in the photo both own chainsaw supply businesses but also cut hardwood for firewood. With tough, dirty timber like this you'd spend more time filing than cutting. We'll just swap out chains and grind them later. We can both file OK, but it's too time consuming under some conditions. We work full time in other jobs during the week so don't have enough time to cut what we need to on weekends, certainly not enough time to file every blunt chain.

Maybe you should start using a few longer bars - I think you'll change your mind. Definately won't apply with the following bars...

Matt, everything said here makes perfect sense for your situation.
I can see what your saying.
I don't use my saws for work. I use a mechanical harvester for that.
I never use a grinder for my saws. I don't own one.
If I had to carry a 1/2 doz. chains I'd still hand file.
I agree with Bob that with a sharp file two to three passes is enough and the time taken.
Get the sunlight on the right angle and you'll see how much you are actually removing. It's a fair amount.
Doing it by hand gives a better feel for it. To me it 's a bit like using a 9" angle grinder to do a job a dremel could do if you get my drift.

Now getting back to the harvester chains we use a coupla grands worth grinder, liquid cooled and I still hate what it does to the chains.
But with chains on tap, and loss of production at stake, this grinder is necessary.

BTW Matt, youv'e got some lovely toy's.

BTW, those that think you'll trash chains learning you shouldn't. Your cutting speed might be down a bit, but that should be about it.

 

[MCW]

Just curious though, do you notice if the saw is working harder when you run your hardnose long bars. I run an 18'' hardnose on my 2065 and don't notice any decrease in power.

The longest hardnose bar I have is a GB Hard Top in 36" for the 3120XP. I can't notice any decrease in power. The 60" bars I have are roller nose which are a very good bar. Maybe you thought they were a hard nose in the photo?

With 42" bar and 5 skip 404 chain in twin bar clamp type type mill, I reckon I could come close to beating you. I can touch up a cutter in about 2 strokes or 3 seconds. a 5 skip chain on a 42" bar only has about 12 cutters so that about 40 seconds by the time I walk around the mill to file from the other side. How quickly can you swap out a chain on a CS in a mill?
Even on a 3/8 - 42" bar with full comp 3/8 chain I touch up the whole chain in ~200 seconds. I prefer to do this rather than swapping out. I'm not doing this for a living so time is not an issue for me.

Ya got me there Bob Bringing mills into the equation isn't fair With a 42" bar in a mill you wouldn't only come close to beating me, you would beat me. I haven't used my mill much as yet but intend to hand file when milling as the bar is a pain to get out. I also plan on grinding a fair few of the cutters off.

 

[AUSSIE1]

Ya got me there Bob Bringing mills into the equation isn't fair With a 42" bar in a mill you wouldn't only come close to beating me, you would beat me. I haven't used my mill much as yet but intend to hand file when milling as the bar is a pain to get out. I also plan on grinding a fair few of the cutters off.

So how do you guys file the right side with the saw in the mill?

 

[MCW]

So how do you guys file the right side with the saw in the mill?

Good thinking mate. Best you ask Bob I haven't filed anything in the mill yet. Have hardly run it to date. Got a stack of logs to play with but haven't had the time to mill much yet unfortunately. I sold out of firewood already this year so have been cutting that in my spare time instead.

 

[AUSSIE1]

Good thinking mate. Best you ask Bob I haven't filed anything in the mill yet. Have hardly run it to date. Got a stack of logs to play with but haven't had the time to mill much yet unfortunately. I sold out of firewood already this year so have been cutting that in my spare time instead.

Sounds like Bob might be a contortionist!

 

[tdi-rick]

<snip>
I felled a hard as steel Box tree just out of the shot about half this tree's size. With some termites and dirt in the centre I went through 3 chains just to get it on the ground. I went through a further 3 chains for about a 1/4 pf the wood in this Redgum.
<snip>

I did my 'first year apprenticeship' on a big old dead Yellow Box over 46" across the butt where it was felled and it bifurcated about 5' above the scarf, with two big termite chimneys up each trunk.
Cut, swap chain, cut, swap chain, cut swap chain, cut touch up first chain....and all with a 64cc saw :censored:

There's still about 2 tonnes left that I'll get around to cleaning up when I build the 7900, and then I'll get more filing practice. At least I've knocked 99% of the dirt out of the guts now, but you can't get it all.....

 

[AUSSIE1]

I did my 'first year apprenticeship' on a big old dead Yellow Box over 46" across the butt where it was felled and it bifurcated about 5' above the scarf, with two big termite chimneys up each trunk.
Cut, swap chain, cut, swap chain, cut swap chain, cut touch up first chain....and all with a 64cc saw :censored:

There's still about 2 tonnes left that I'll get around to cleaning up when I build the 7900, and then I'll get more filing practice. At least I've knocked 99% of the dirt out of the guts now, but you can't get it all.....

C'mon Rick ease up, I had to look up "bifurcated" LOL.

 

[tdi-rick]

So how do you guys file the right side with the saw in the mill?

Use a circular saw Lucas mill and not a slabber :greenchainsaw:

(My mate next door just bought one )

 

[AUSSIE1]

Use a circular saw Lucas mill and not a slabber :greenchainsaw:

(My mate next door just bought one )

Yeah I've run various machines of mates over the past.
They cringe when they see some of the wood cut for firewood.