Change of plans, What heat source would you suggest?

[STANG302]

First off I'll quickly explain the situation I'm in. A few years ago I purchased my grandmothers house after she was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. She did not have much time left so I bought the old house and 5 acres from her. Figured it wouldn't be to long and I'd be in the old house. Well turns out she's still kicking thank god. And was miss diagnosed. Which brings us to today she still lives in the house and made sure I could never kick her out durring the switch. So I'm stuck. Tired of renting and would like to move over onto the property. I thought of moving in with her and taking over the upstairs of the old house. But have finaly come to realize that the poor old house is in just to bad of shape take up residence in. It barely supports just her at the moment. Well and sewer have been problematic let alone the delapitated state of the house. That it just would not be able to support the both of us.

So I've finaly made the decision to build. What exactly, I'm still looking into it. But it will either be a large garage or pole shed 30x50 or 40x50 or so. Will be giving Cleary builders a call next week to see what they can do for me. They've built my dads pole shed and shop and have held up realy well. Will be splitting it up half garage and half living quarters. There are a few things I would have to do first drill new well or drill old well deeper, and install new sewer system. Realy hoping to get away with holding tanks only.

Next step is heat. Which way do I go?

I have acess to a realy nice Quadra Fire 3100 that my parrents used to use sparaticaly in there house. Ended up my mother was to affraid that using it would burn down her house. They swaped it out last winter for a wood pellet stove and now she's happy. It would heat my estimated 1000 sq ft just fine. But the down falls would be having to fill it up every 8 hrs or so. Generaly durring the work week I'm out of the house for 10-11 hours. So heat would be sparatic.

Option two would be to bit the bullet and step into an out door wood stove. Either one large engough to heat the whole building or one that would support the addition of an actual house If I started a family down the road. Then theres the issue of how do I hook it up. Run with in floor heat, which would be great to heat living quarters and garage. Or just run it in and hook it up to a standard furnace. There are alot of dealers around my area that sells these. Which are the good ones? What should I look out for? I'm in the country and don't have any close neighbors. Should I still be concerned with emissions BS down the road?

Open to other options. Just let me know.

Also odd idea. Has any one run in floor heat to the pad that the outdoor wood stove sits on?

 

[Clarkbug]

Sorry to hear about your predicament, but glad to hear that your grandmother is still kicking!

I would have to wonder if it would make sense to put the money from a new building into fixing up the house instead? I dont know what shape its in (other than bad) but do you intend to fix it up when you finally do move in? Or would you knock it down and start over? My $0.02 would be to spend the money on what you can in the existing house if you are going to eventually move in there.

If you are building a new pole shed and have to pour the slab, I would think that having the radiant heat is the best plan. I like the nice even heat, and its always good to work in a garage that has a warm floor. You could go with a forced air or radiator setup, but I would say pour the piping in the slab and call it a day.

As far as sizing an OWB, you would obviously want to size it for all of the buildings you would eventually heat, but Im not sure of how your efficiency will suffer having the larger furnace with a small area to heat.

Sorry I dont have more technical details, just really an opinion (like everyone else does, Im sure )

 

[CrappieKeith]

Since you have ducting it makes sence to me to add a wood furnace to it for under 2K.
Properlly sized and you could load it in the a.m. & p.m. for a full 24 hour burn.
Look at our BJ90.

 

[boostnut]

I know this isn't what keith wants to hear but if I were in your situation and was planning to pour a bunch of concrete I would be putting pex in the floor. There is the issue of how to cool the space in the summer but having a large heated thermal mass simply cannot be beat, especially if you're going to use the garage as a workshop in the cold months.

We have 50,000 sq. feet of manufacturing space, all of which is heated with pex in the concrete. We can't say enough about the effeciency and comfort that this setup supplies.

Just imagine the smile on your face the first time you crawl under your truck to change the oil in January and grab a warm wrench and don't freeze your $&%! off in the process. Just my .02.

 

[STANG302]

Since you have ducting it makes sence to me to add a wood furnace to it for under 2K.
Properlly sized and you could load it in the a.m. & p.m. for a full 24 hour burn.
Look at our BJ90.

The old house does not have any duct work to speak of. The only heat source is a furnace recesed in the floor centraly located on the first floor of the house. It protrudes down into dirt floor cellar (yes this house is OLD!). And to add the fact that my grandmother is on oxygen there is no way to add wood heat to the house. And it is to far gone to be saved. Lucky enough I have more than enough room to build else where on the property.

Although that is not a bad Idea for what I plan to build. I'll have to look more into that type of setup.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I'd put a propane furnace in and use the free wood stove as supplemental while I am at home. Sounds like your situation is not a permanent thing and kinda make-do till the situation changes. There's no way I'd go to the expense of an OWB for something that might change in 3 or 4 years.

Ian

 

[STANG302]

I'd put a propane furnace in and use the free wood stove as supplemental while I am at home. Sounds like your situation is not a permanent thing and kinda make-do till the situation changes. There's no way I'd go to the expense of an OWB for something that might change in 3 or 4 years.

Ian

Well yes this is sort of a temporary thing. The old house is not salvagable. And will be donated to the local fire department to do training in. But do not plan to build a house till I'm married and want to start a family. Which hopefully will not be any time soon. Maybe in another 5-10 years? We'll see. But when I do it will not be in the same location as the old house.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Hey...it's all good what this fellow decides on.
I have been and will continue to be a source not the only source.

My view is this.
With a warm air wood or wood/liquid fuel furnace you can heat on gravity...no power.
You can filter the air...cool the air...kill airbourne pathogens in the air, but not with in floor heat from a boiler.
You can also heat with less wood...which means less work loading ,cutting ,splitting,stacking.

Dollar wise you'll save several thousand in up front costs too.

Working on floors under trucks I've always laid on a creeper.

 

[STANG302]

Hey...it's all good what this fellow decides on.
I have been and will continue to be a source not the only source.

Working on floors under trucks I've always laid on a creeper.

Same here normaly.

Looked at the Yukon-Eagle III/electric. And have a few questions. Is the electric furnuce UL certified? Also looked like the oil and gas compatables also have a auto fire starter. Does the electric have this same auto start feature? Other wise they look like a viable option that could heat the entire garage and living quarters.

Also that water heating attachment looks promising also. Thats one feature I like about the outdoor stoves also. Run an electric water heater in the summer and run wood heated water in the winter.

 

[angelo c]

Stang,
Think two steps ahead. Will you ever need a garage with a great workshop and a small apartment above it ? you could live in that for at least 2 kids...
then build up your nest egg and build the dream house as you grow to need it or fill it up more with happy little feet.
Wish Grandma well and build the new garage/apartment and move her in for now. that's a built in daycare system to me !!! The wood/heat thing will work itself out. keep your eye on the big targets and the little ones shoot themselves...

I wonder if you could poor the slab later on and build the "apartment" first. Garage doors are expensive. I would frame them out but not buy them now. I'm mentally doing this on the cheap. HTH. adding a second floor is fairly inexpensive when you already have a foundation.

good luck !

Angelo

 

[Valkyrie Rider]

I'd say even if you are on the fence with how you would want to heat the building but radiant is an option.... put the tubing in the slab so it's there should you change your mind down the road.

 

[chainsawaddict]

I'd put a propane furnace in and use the free wood stove as supplemental while I am at home. Sounds like your situation is not a permanent thing and kinda make-do till the situation changes. There's no way I'd go to the expense of an OWB for something that might change in 3 or 4 years.

Ian

I agree. Quadrafires are great stoves, and if you insulate that 1000 square feet really well you arent going to burn much wood at all.

Someday if you move into the house and decide to do an OWB over there, you wont have to feed two OWBs for hot water in each place.

Im still the kinda guy that prefers a woodstove to an OWB though. Like having the fire inside, watching the dog sleep by it...i just prefer the aesthetics of it. jmo.


edit: the only thing i would do different than ian is install 220volt radiant cove heaters as your backup instead of a propane furnace.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Hey Stang!

What does Farmington Township (or the county for that matter) say about using a pole building as a residence? I've had the same thoughts, but figured the zoning would be a killer.

My vote in your situation would be an OWB with floor heat. Backup or "zone" heat could come from the Quadrafire inside. Always nice to have a "Plan B" when the power goes out. Plus, a nice fire could help with that "family planning" down the road!!!

Before you go the shed route, give Larry or Phil at Collova Builders a call. They can build a pretty nice little house for not a lot more than you'll have into the shed and the apartment, and if you ever decide to sell, the value would be higher.

Well and sewer problems are not hard at all to solve, just not cheap. I went to a submersible pump about 2 years ago after living my whole life with a Monitor jack pump that always broke at the most inconvenient times. I'm a happy guy now, I don't miss the clack-clunk-clack sound every time the pump kicked on one bit. One more shameless local guy promo: Vern Jelle has done all the well work here for as long as I can remember, heck of a guy, I wish I'd have listened to him 15 years ago and put in a submersible then.

 

[STANG302]

Hey Stang!

What does Farmington Township (or the county for that matter) say about using a pole building as a residence? I've had the same thoughts, but figured the zoning would be a killer.

My vote in your situation would be an OWB with floor heat. Backup or "zone" heat could come from the Quadrafire inside. Always nice to have a "Plan B" when the power goes out. Plus, a nice fire could help with that "family planning" down the road!!!

Before you go the shed route, give Larry or Phil at Collova Builders a call. They can build a pretty nice little house for not a lot more than you'll have into the shed and the apartment, and if you ever decide to sell, the value would be higher.

Well and sewer problems are not hard at all to solve, just not cheap. I went to a submersible pump about 2 years ago after living my whole life with a Monitor jack pump that always broke at the most inconvenient times. I'm a happy guy now, I don't miss the clack-clunk-clack sound every time the pump kicked on one bit. One more shameless local guy promo: Vern Jelle has done all the well work here for as long as I can remember, heck of a guy, I wish I'd have listened to him 15 years ago and put in a submersible then.

I'm in the same boat with the well. Got the old jack pump running constantly. Just had the leathers and a few sections of pipe replaced that rusted out. Earilier this summer and cost me a but load! Still having problems with the well. Vern told my dad we could either drill that well deeper (Sucking up sand every now and then) and install a submersible pump or drill a new well. Looked around the property this weekend and decided on spot. It's not close to where the old house is located. So a new well will have to be drilled.

I do know the collova's. And they do good work. Just not ready for a house just yet.

I still have to look into the details from farmington town ship. But it has been done. Just down the road west of farminton town haul are two setups like I'm looking to build. So there has to be a way around it. One other problem I'm going to have is that I'm going to need a new driveway installed. And I know they gerally do not allow dual driveway's on small plots of land like my 5 acres.

 

[pwl]

Strag, I only belong to two forum's, this one and garagejournal.com. Check them out, there is a ton of info about exactly what you are talking about.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Same here normaly.

Looked at the Yukon-Eagle III/electric. And have a few questions. Is the electric furnuce UL certified? Also looked like the oil and gas compatables also have a auto fire starter. Does the electric have this same auto start feature? Other wise they look like a viable option that could heat the entire garage and living quarters.

Also that water heating attachment looks promising also. Thats one feature I like about the outdoor stoves also. Run an electric water heater in the summer and run wood heated water in the winter.

Yes the wood/electric is UL listed.
The electric will not light a fire like the gas or oil option will.
All Eagles are UL tested and listed for both the US and Canada, however Canadian (CSA) code does not allow for wood/gas like we do here in the U.S.for the last 35 years.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Have you looked at the steel quanset hut type buildings? My FIL built one of those, 2/3 living quarters and 1/3 garage.

Ian

 

[Cerran]

You can get 10-11 hours of heat out of a Quad 3100 no problem. At least enough to keep the fire going for a re-load. I do it all the time here on my 3100i insert.

The trick is to use good seasoned wood and get the fire going good and bank it down before you leave.

 

[STANG302]

Have you looked at the steel quanset hut type buildings? My FIL built one of those, 2/3 living quarters and 1/3 garage.

Ian

I have. And for the size I'm looking the price realy isn't any better than going with a stick built pole shed. The other concern I had was how to effiencently insulate for our wi winters.

Good to hear that the eagle is ul listed. And one more odd question for you. Has any one used the aux water heater in the eagles to run in floor heat?
I don't know what the average water flow rate is on the out door setups. I'm guesing the flow would be to low. Just courious.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I have. And for the size I'm looking the price realy isn't any better than going with a stick built pole shed. The other concern I had was how to efficiently insulate for our wi winters.

I think my FIL framed the living area inside as if it were the 2nd story of an A frame house and just insulated between the studs like normal. You could blow insulation into the ceiling like normal too.

The advantage I see is that the metal is self supporting so when you no longer needed it for a place to live, you could gut it, put a big sliding door on both ends and Tada! A barn is born.

Ian