Changes to Stihl for 2010

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Wild Knight

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I have heard some rumors that Stihl is having to adapt or change its saws to meet 2010 emission regulations. Is this true? If so, are either the 361/441 already compliant?

I ask b/c I am going to be getting a bigger saw in the next year or two, and I am curious if I should get one before the regs go into effect, or if the new compliant motors are going to be even better than what is one the shelf right now.

Anyone with any insight into this?
 
Why do you think that?

I am not privy to any info, just don't see enough activity in the pipeline to have everything but the 441 gone by 2010.

So I am guessing it will be a softer start than some are saying. I've been wrong before. Just look at my stock investments for the last few years...
 
All saws will be strato charged.

Homeowner/smaller OPE will be strato larger OPE will be 4-mix.... bet on it.
 
All saws will be strato charged.

Homeowner/smaller OPE will be strato larger OPE will be 4-mix.... bet on it.

I know, but at what exact date will dealers forced to be 100 percent compliant. That will be the question. Like digital TV.

I will not be surprised if that date is NOT Jan 1, 2010.
 
I know, but at what exact date will dealers forced to be 100 percent compliant. That will be the question. Like digital TV.

I will not be surprised if that date is NOT Jan 1, 2010.

Those dates were not moved back for Tier I, II, or III Diesel.

The date is set and not likely to be moved. This isn't grandma we are talking about, it's business...and we are don't exactly have a business friendly administration right now...
 
I can't recall exactly, but for the manufacturer it's supposed to be sometime in Feb or March...
 
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what's wrong with a strato

Is the strato a bad motor design? Why does it sounds like going to the strato is a bad thing here on the forum. It still puts out the same power, but does it using less fuel, right? Is it disliked b/c it doesn't accept mods very well? Weight to power ratio suffer?

End of the day, if I do not plan on modifying my saw, will I notice any performance loss say, between a 361 I buy today and one I buy in 2010?
 
Not really bad. Part of the issue is those Strato designs are harder for the aftermarket and hobby enthusiast to modify. Part of the issue is they have been delivered in a heavier form to this point in time. Part of the issue is their inherent complexity requires cost cutting in other area's to maintain price points vs. conventional designs. So these type of things all add up to really ripping on places like this.

Real world for foks like me and most out there? Beat the lean ECO freindy fuel/air mixture they come setup with, deal with the extra pound..and they work just fine.

So far I like my Husqvarna 455. They have been around for several years now and still sell well. The next round X-torque product offerings from Husqvarna such as the 460 and new 576 will tell us if the product concept is improving..I bet they are. The world isn't coming to an end.

Great way to put market "e-lax" in to the saw world though...
 
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I can't recall exactly, but for the manufacturer it's supposed to be sometime in Feb or March...

Is there any more info on the MS362?

The last I heard was that it will be heavier than the 361, and have the same air filtration as the 441...........
 
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Chrowen, I hope you don't mind if I answer you here in the forum but I think it is a good question and is relavant here and I think my answer should spark a few discussions that might help. ;)

I'm personally not a big fan of the stratos this far in, partly because I like moded saws, but mostly because of the power to weight ratio. Part of the fun of modifying saws for me is finding a better way to skin the proverbial cat, the strato is just a new challenge for dumb ole gear heads like me and we will figure a way around it same as always.

The holy grail of handheld power equipment is power to weight ratio, nobody wants to carry more weight than is necessary to get the job done. That’s why guys have 15 saws in their sig lines. One for small trees, one for big trees, one for monster trees, one for limbing, one for limbing the limbs, and so on. The stratos up to now have all put on weight from their non-stratoed predecessors, not a huge increase but a pound is a pound is a pound.

There is no advanced combustion technology with the new stratos, just a different way of getting the fuel and air into the cylinder and scavenging the spent gasses. The strato is really not as complicated as it all seems and they do tend to get better "fuel mileage" which is a plus for some folks and maybe it should be, but most homeowner/moderate saw users will probably burn less than 5 gallons of fuel a year so in truth fuel mileage isn't really an issue. The guys that run a saw day in and day out should be the ones happiest with the increase in fuel mileage but on the flip side they are also the ones most affected by the increase in weight.

As far as buy now or later??
If you want a saw with a good power to weight ratio I say you probably should buy now and try to beat the EPA deadline or I think you should be prepared to wait a year or two while it all shakes out.

I think eventually all of the manufacturers are going to slowly improve and will eventually get things back to where they are now, or possibly even better, but I think it's going to take a while. While it looks like Stihl is the one dragging there feet the most here I think they might actually lead the charge and I'm kinda looking forward to seeing the MS461. I think (and if Stihl follows the path they've always taken) the 461 will probably be a slightly improved MS441 with a 2mm bore increase, in which case the added weight will be negligible and will put that saw back in line with where it should be weight wise and probably a little better power wise with quad transfers and better fuel efficiency..... if I’m right it should be one very nice saw. The 361 already has the improved anti-vibe and filter set-ups so all that’s left to do is scale down the strato to fit the smaller dimensions and it’s good to go which with Stihls system should not add any appreciable weight.

Stihls strato design is probably the best out there as far not adding weight to the saw and also in terms of ease of modability. I think where most of the weight came from in the 441 was from the new and improved anti-vibe and air filtration systems and the need to add things to the saw to support these new systems.

If your not to worried about the extra pound and you have no plans to mod the saw I think the MS441 is as fine a strato saw as is out there, but I would hate to buy one right now and have them release the new and improved MS461 shortly after.


Anyway just my long winded two cents on the matter. :laugh: :cheers:

BTW if I we're spending my money, I would get the 361 now, no matter what happens with the stratos you'll never wish you had waited. It's gonna be hard to ever make that saw any better than it is already.
 
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I asked my local stihl dealer about 2010 regulation effects on stihl. He said none of their big pro saws will be effected until 2012. The 361 will become a 362 and some of the smaller saws will go away, while some will be strato-charged. He says he got his info from a conference at Va. beach eariler this winter. It would be nice to know for sure if saws were going away, might be good to buy a few up and sell later. Of course that would keep peoples money out of the stock market where the BIG returns are.
 
To meet the requirements, some manfs are going to put cat mufflers on the smaller models (60cc and below). Stihl has resisted this and says they are going strato across the board. Time will tell.
 
99.8% of the people in the world that run saws have never been on AS, or modded a saw.

You know that figure is true because you saw it on the internet!

It won't be the end of the world, but if you like to tinker, just buy what you want while you can!
 
...Stihls strato design is probably the best out there as far not adding weight to the saw and also in terms of ease of modability. I think where most of the weight came from in the 441 was from the new and improved anti-vibe and air filtration systems and the need to add things to the saw to support these new systems. ...

Mmmmm - the 576xp beats it on both power and weight.....

...and there are lighter 71cc saws out there with similar AV and air filtration....

...I share your hope for the 461 though....:sword: :cheers:
 
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