After poisoning my well and ground water.
My lawyer will beat up Your lawyer.
You will loose all you own.
Worth it?
My lawyer will beat up Your lawyer.
You will loose all you own.
Worth it?
Does any one pour used motor oil on there stacked firewood?
- Thread starter ft. churchill
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
- Status
brewmonster
ArboristSite Operative
According to the Smithsonian's exhibit "Ocean Planet," 363 million gallons of used motor oil enter the oceans each year. That's ten times the amount from big tanker spills.
One quart of motor oil can pollute 250,000 gallons of water, and one gallon of gasoline can pollute 750,000 gallons of water.
Think about it, people. Do you drink water? (And remember, beer is more than 90% water too.) Do you eat fish? Would you like for your children to be able to drink water and eat fish?
Burning it in the relatively low heat of a wood stove isn't so great either. Lots more PM, metals, sulfur, etc., etc. than fuel oil.
I know a lot of people like to bash the EPA here, but I'm old enough to remember life before the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts (both implemented by a Republican president). The Delaware River was a dead sewer and the air over Philadelphia was brown on muggy summer days. I don't want to return to those days and I can't understand why anyone would.
I really can't understand why anyone would still be practicing this kind of pollution. The good old days when you would spray oil to control the dust, or dump it in a nearby creek, as was the practice at a farm where I used to work, weren't good. Those habits were filthy and indefensible, the result of ignorance and a false notion of thrift. The only proper place to pour your used motor oil is into a can that you take to a recycling center.
One quart of motor oil can pollute 250,000 gallons of water, and one gallon of gasoline can pollute 750,000 gallons of water.
Think about it, people. Do you drink water? (And remember, beer is more than 90% water too.) Do you eat fish? Would you like for your children to be able to drink water and eat fish?
Burning it in the relatively low heat of a wood stove isn't so great either. Lots more PM, metals, sulfur, etc., etc. than fuel oil.
I know a lot of people like to bash the EPA here, but I'm old enough to remember life before the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts (both implemented by a Republican president). The Delaware River was a dead sewer and the air over Philadelphia was brown on muggy summer days. I don't want to return to those days and I can't understand why anyone would.
I really can't understand why anyone would still be practicing this kind of pollution. The good old days when you would spray oil to control the dust, or dump it in a nearby creek, as was the practice at a farm where I used to work, weren't good. Those habits were filthy and indefensible, the result of ignorance and a false notion of thrift. The only proper place to pour your used motor oil is into a can that you take to a recycling center.
My father in-law used to stain his deck with drain oil.
Those kind of quotes, or statements always get me going... because that's only partially true.
The actual quote from the exhibit is...
"...363 million gallons that come from industrial waste and automobiles."
Anybody wanna' guess how much comes from North America vs. other parts of the world?
Anybody wanna' guess what the ratio of industrial waste to used automobile oil is?
Anybody wanna' guess how much of that used automobile oil, from North America, comes from guys like me pouring it on a wood pile or soaking fence posts?
How is possible we have any usable water left on the planet? After all, the same exhibit says...
"More than 60 million gallons of oil enter the oceans every year, but it’s not reported on the news. That’s because this oil seeps from oil-bearing rock layers into the ocean as part of a natural process. When tankers running aground spill oil, that’s news, and currently these accidents deposit about 37 million gallons of oil into the ocean every year."
Let's see now, 60 million gallons of oil enters the oceans by natural earth process every year... and that's been going on for how many MILLIONS OF YEARS? Yep, we all died 10,000 years ago from water pollution.
Listen, I'm not trying to be a smart-azz (well, maybe I am)... but so often the numbers that get thrown around about mankind's impact on the earth just don't add up. And then you take something like the Smithsonian, that takes a number from one (so-called) expert, and then another number from another (so-called) expert, and put both in the same paragraph... and they don't add up.
No I don't want to see used motor oil dumped in our rivers and streams, anymore than I want to see industrial waste dumped in them. But stop trying to equate that to some country boy pouring a little oil on a wood pile, soaking a fence post, weather-proofing a wagon box, or starting a brush pile on fire... that ain't what you need to be worrying about; changing that changes nothing.
Last edited:
Same place I do - the grocery store, I just bought a pack of 3 boxes last year. Local chain is Rosauer's
Harry K
stihly dan
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unless the 100 billion people on the planet all do it. What makes certain people special. before you thro back the facts of how many people are actually on the planet. I don't know, butt its a crap load.
Oooohhhh..... whatever....
You totally missed the point!
You totally missed the point!
Is a 'Crap Load" bigger or smaller then a "Boat Load"?
I never did this some people used it for bar oil . Put paper on the brush pile then dump it on the paper makes a good clean an hot fire not much smoke . Passing on dumping it on my firewood
brewmonster
ArboristSite Operative
OK, Spidey, make those numbers dance any way you can to justify whatever you want to do. We humans are notoriously rational beings. That is, we can find a rationalization for anything that we've already decided we're going to do, no matter what the cost to ourselves or others.
If it's OK for you, one little country boy, then why isn't it OK for 7,000,000,000 other country boys too? You times seven billion is a lot of pollution and I'm not OK with any of it. My well provides me with pure delicious water and I'm oh so grateful that it hasn't been ruined by thoughtless yahoos with filthy, lazy habits. Our seemingly inconsequential daily practices, taken in the aggregate, have a big impact on the world we all have to live in.
And what is the problem with recycling oil anyway? Collecting it and bringing it to a recycling center (for free, where I live) seems at least as easy as anything else.
If it's OK for you, one little country boy, then why isn't it OK for 7,000,000,000 other country boys too? You times seven billion is a lot of pollution and I'm not OK with any of it. My well provides me with pure delicious water and I'm oh so grateful that it hasn't been ruined by thoughtless yahoos with filthy, lazy habits. Our seemingly inconsequential daily practices, taken in the aggregate, have a big impact on the world we all have to live in.
And what is the problem with recycling oil anyway? Collecting it and bringing it to a recycling center (for free, where I live) seems at least as easy as anything else.
See, that’s what I mean about throwing numbers around, your argument is all a big “what if?” I tend to be more of a realist. Although you're gonna’ say I’m rationalizing… but it’s OK for you to use the 7 billion number? Don't forget, you're the one that's throwing out numbers. At least my numbers are RATIONAL!
7,000,000,000 other country boys? First of all, nearly two-thirds (60%) of those 7 billion live in urban and suburban areas of Asia… most don’t personally own anything that generates used oil. Of the remaining 2.8 billion, one third lives in third-world countries and don’t have a clue what oil even is. That only leaves about 1.8 billion people to account for, and only 1 in 8 are farmers, but to be fair not all “country boys” are farmers… let’s say 10% shall we… or, only 1.8 billion “country boys”. But really now, that 1.8 mbillion includes wives, kids, and elderly family members living with them… let’s say average household size is 4 (I bet it’s more like 5)… That leaves less than 5 hundred million “country boys” world wide. I’m pretty sure that many of those 5 hundred million don’t change their own oil; they pay someone to do it.
Hmmmm… the number of “country boys” with used oil at their disposal is pretty darn small… no where near 7 BILLION!
7,000,000,000 other country boys? First of all, nearly two-thirds (60%) of those 7 billion live in urban and suburban areas of Asia… most don’t personally own anything that generates used oil. Of the remaining 2.8 billion, one third lives in third-world countries and don’t have a clue what oil even is. That only leaves about 1.8 billion people to account for, and only 1 in 8 are farmers, but to be fair not all “country boys” are farmers… let’s say 10% shall we… or, only 1.8 billion “country boys”. But really now, that 1.8 mbillion includes wives, kids, and elderly family members living with them… let’s say average household size is 4 (I bet it’s more like 5)… That leaves less than 5 hundred million “country boys” world wide. I’m pretty sure that many of those 5 hundred million don’t change their own oil; they pay someone to do it.
Hmmmm… the number of “country boys” with used oil at their disposal is pretty darn small… no where near 7 BILLION!
doobie57z
ArboristSite Operative
ah, so air pollution from burning wood is ok then. Where is the line? What about all the people that don't burn wood? 699 billion people breathing wood smoke so one fella in new jersey can save $100 on his heating bill? judge not, lest ye be judged...just sayin'
I AM RECYCLING IT!
I'm using it to generate heat, weather-proof structural wood, and whatnot. If I haul it to the recycling center (so they can then sell it back to me, I would then need to purchase, or otherwise acquire, something else to replace it... some other chemical that's probably just as damaging or toxic in its own way. In the end, haulin' it to a recycling center (rather than recycling it myself), cost me dollars... lots of dollars.
Climb down off your high-horse man.
brewmonster
ArboristSite Operative
I'm impressed! I thought your earlier Number Dances were clever but this one is amazing! You could be a professional choreographer! Just for fun let's say that all your made-up-out-of-thin-air arithmetic is right: half a billion yahoos dumping oil on the ground and into the water is still not OK with me. That 363 million gallons of oil came from somewhere.
In the end, haulin' it to a recycling center (rather than recycling it myself), cost me dollars... lots of dollars.
And in the end, this is what it's really all about. Individuals tend to make choices that shift costs away from themselves and onto others. Why do you think the Delaware was a dead sewer forty years ago? Because industries and individuals didn't want to bear the expense of cleaning up their messes, they just ran it all into the river. That made for a great bottom line, because it shifted that expense onto society at large, namely all us taxpayers.
ah, so air pollution from burning wood is ok then. Where is the line?
Good point, doobie57z. We do need to draw those lines and that is where an oft-maligned entity, namely government, comes into play. Government exists to perform functions that we as individuals cannot perform or would choose not to. The EPA-certified stove I have now puts out a fraction of the pollution my old smoke dragons did. Thanks, EPA!
dingeryote
Blueberry Baron
Plain old Oil is one thing, used crank case oil is another.
Oil as it comes outta the ground isn't much of a problem. Add the metallic solids, and other good stuff, that keeps motors from grinding themselves to death, and then add in the concentrated toxic combustion byproducts like heavy metals and various carcinogenic compounds, and it's a completely different matter.
As a "Country Boy" life can be damn dangerous, what with all the viscious mechanical gizmos, ornery critters, and various chemicals used on crops. Most of us "Hayseeds" learn real quick to minimize unnecessary risks to ourselves, family and neighbors, as the necessary ones are bad enough. Nobody in thier right mind goes to spraying Guithion, or subsoiling with anhydrous without a respirator on, or even gets near a jug of Gromoxeone while wearing shorts, and the stuff is handled like it's gonna lash out and bite.
Funny thing is, that used motor oil has the same potential as some of the more noxious stuff used around a farm, and is many times more persistent in the ground.
It just dosn't have warning labels all over it, and the effects might not be noticed as quick.
Stop and think about it a minuite. Ya wouldn't set up a lead melting pot, and set to casting sinkers and bullets in the living room right?
Lead oxide vapors in an enclosed space and all, and the issue of contaminating the whole area? Only a complete moron would do such a thing if they knew right?
Just some light reading for the guys that are trying to remember all the 27 letter compounds and toxic gorp in waste crank case oil.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp102-c2.pdf
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
Oil as it comes outta the ground isn't much of a problem. Add the metallic solids, and other good stuff, that keeps motors from grinding themselves to death, and then add in the concentrated toxic combustion byproducts like heavy metals and various carcinogenic compounds, and it's a completely different matter.
As a "Country Boy" life can be damn dangerous, what with all the viscious mechanical gizmos, ornery critters, and various chemicals used on crops. Most of us "Hayseeds" learn real quick to minimize unnecessary risks to ourselves, family and neighbors, as the necessary ones are bad enough. Nobody in thier right mind goes to spraying Guithion, or subsoiling with anhydrous without a respirator on, or even gets near a jug of Gromoxeone while wearing shorts, and the stuff is handled like it's gonna lash out and bite.
Funny thing is, that used motor oil has the same potential as some of the more noxious stuff used around a farm, and is many times more persistent in the ground.
It just dosn't have warning labels all over it, and the effects might not be noticed as quick.
Stop and think about it a minuite. Ya wouldn't set up a lead melting pot, and set to casting sinkers and bullets in the living room right?
Lead oxide vapors in an enclosed space and all, and the issue of contaminating the whole area? Only a complete moron would do such a thing if they knew right?
Just some light reading for the guys that are trying to remember all the 27 letter compounds and toxic gorp in waste crank case oil.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp102-c2.pdf
Stay safe!
Dingeryote
stihly dan
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good point, doobie57z. We do need to draw those lines and that is where an oft-maligned entity, namely government, comes into play. Government exists to perform functions that we as individuals cannot perform or would choose not to. The EPA-certified stove I have now puts out a fraction of the pollution my old smoke dragons did. Thanks, EPa.
My kumma only puts out .45 gr/hr. I will put that up against oil any day. Or any wood stove.
My kumma only puts out .45 gr/hr. I will put that up against oil any day. Or any wood stove.
Incomplete
ArboristSite Guru
Bought some at Ace: absolute carp. Not worth the box they were packed in.
darkbyrd
Forest Hugger
Then us wood burners should strive to be a good example to others, and follow best practices, so they don't have a reason to ban wood burning.
My oil goes to the recycling center. My dad throws it on burn piles. I guess he figures it won't make it to the well pump while he still has to drink from it.
Good point Walt.
I used to put the used motor oil in milk jugs and into the garbage which went to the landfill - but they do not want it. So when I fill a 5 gallon bucket it goes to an auto parts store in town to recycle. It's not a big deal. Several friends have acreage adjoining farms. They take the used oil in to town when they are making a trip, so as to combine trips. They will not use weed , vegetation killers, insecticides or used motor oil on the ground as they have wells. And if I was cutting wood at their house I wouldn't use used motor oil or bar and chain oil, it would be canola oil.
- Status
Similar threads
