Does anyone actually LIKE grinding chains??

[BobL]

..........Took me awhile ,,and alot of thinkin of if I should buy a grinder or not....I got into millin so it pretty much tells,,I needed a grinder... To file is good but for me to free hand,,I cant,,,just cant get angles just right to suite me and each cutter to be the same...Thats a must with millin...
Maybe in time you will understand where I;m coming frm...I like grinding cause it does save time,,,I set it up for a type angle and depth,,and next time I trow a chain on I just adjust the cutter lenght and makes life so easy for me....I dont mind grinding chains,,,I just take my time,,and the thing that always got to me is to,,as I said,,a chain thats been toasted....No sence in that,,you see the cutters turn blue it tells ya,,someone just dont care and wanna get done quick....

For milling I used to be a chain swapper.... bring a handful of chains to the bush and swap out as required . .... then handfile or grind chains at home in the evenings. Then I started milling bigger harder wood where I have to touch up after every slab, or every second slab for the narrower slabs. Swapping out so often became a PITA and I found myself running out of chains so I started touching up the chain on mill. After a while I got quicker at hand sharpening my 42" skip chains than I can swap them out. Even when milling smaller softer hardwoods where I can mill a whole log without sharpening I still hand sharpen because it's quicker than swapping. I also use some full comp ripping chains for milling and I am almost as quick at hand touching up a full comp 42" chain as I can swap it out - the more I hand file the quicker and more consistent I seem to get. I have to hand touch up my 192 cutter 60" chains in the bush as I only have 2 chains. I leave one on the mill for the whole log, the other is a spare if something goes wrong. Then I swap the chains over for the next log.

I still swap and then eventually grind the chains after every ~10 touch ups as this gets them nicely back to the same length easier than by hand filing.

 

[SteveH]

My guy used to do a great job for reasonable cost. Then, I think he got pretty tired of doing chains [one-man saw shop] and started going up in prices, buck at a time. Ok. Then he got to taking longer to do them. I drive an hour, drop off a handful of chains, catch up shooting the bull a while, drive back there when he says they'll be done [usually a week], lately they aren't done. Last time I went down three times, three weeks, and he finally did them while I waited. He wasn't busy, just sitting around smoking cigarettes, guess he just couldn't get into the mood. Nice guy, just doesn't wanna do chains. I have a bunch of them, hand file them all yr. then once a yr. or so take in some to be touched up. Finally, couple weeks ago after the last long wait and unnecessary drives down there, Bailey's got really lucky 'cuz I just ordered me a Maxx. Haven't used it yet [still hand-filing], but I have a half doz. chains set aside that woulda gone to the shop and now I'll do, saving $54 plus at least two hr. driving right off the bat. Few yr. of this, the Maxx is paid for and fewer miles on the pickup and less wasted time driving.

 

[Lakeside53]

For milling I used to be a chain swapper.... bring a handful of chains to the bush and swap out as required . .... then handfile or grind chains at home in the evenings. Then I started milling bigger harder wood where I have to touch up after every slab, or every second slab for the narrower slabs. Swapping out so often became a PITA and I found myself running out of chains so I started touching up the chain on mill. After a while I got quicker at hand sharpening my 42" skip chains than I can swap them out. Even when milling smaller softer hardwoods where I can mill a whole log without sharpening I still hand sharpen because it's quicker than swapping. I also use some full comp ripping chains for milling and I am almost as quick at hand touching up a full comp 42" chain as I can swap it out - the more I hand file the quicker and more consistent I seem to get. I have to hand touch up my 192 cutter 60" chains in the bush as I only have 2 chains. I leave one on the mill for the whole log, the other is a spare if something goes wrong. Then I swap the chains over for the next log.


I still swap and then eventually grind the chains after every ~10 touch ups as this gets them nicely back to the same length easier than by hand filing.

I leave them on the mill, and [because it's not easy to fle into a cutter] use a 12 volt granberg hand-held ginder for touchups all day, then the grinder at night.

 

[mowoodchopper]

Just had to throw in my 2 cents, I could not believe what I read about 7-10 dollars for sharpening! I used to pay 4 but only once a year I would file the rest of the time. Then they raised the price to 5 bucks so I quit taking them in and bought a cheap grinder. It was ok for a while then I got a oregon and it is great for what I do. I used to do all my buddy's for free but I started charging them 4 bucks, I felt guilty but it saves them a buck and a 30 min drive, I wouldnt have started charging but when they get to wanting them
right now it means i have to take time out and do them so I guess its fair!
:greenchainsaw:

 

[Basica Guru]

When I was a youngster a machinist showed me how to hand file the chains. I cut for him and my family for years. I would hand file until I figured the angle were out of whack, then take the chain to the saw shop. Seemed to cut ok for me.

For the last few years it has gotten more difficult to hang onto the dang file for any length of time. Fingers just will not cooperate.I bought a file n joint a few years ago and have been using that. Works decent, just time consuming. I just sharpen for myself, so not a big deal.

A few months ago I dislocated my right shoulder. For whatever reason the repetitive motion of the filing aggravated the injury. So I bought a grind n joint with the bar mount. Works like the file n joint but much faster.

I wish I could spring for a nice grinder, but I just can't spend the money for no more than I would use it. I would be willing to let someone by me a nice Silvey and let me work it off sharpening chains!!!

This getting old stuff is really starting to cramp my style.

 

[Cedarkerf]

The Razur SharpII make it a real pleasure when you get that inside corner line just rite. Mite start putting warning on the chains they are sharp. Got tired of shops lowsing and burning chains' nobody does square so went big square grinder.

 

[BobL]

I leave them on the mill, and [because it's not easy to fle into a cutter] use a 12 volt granberg hand-held ginder for touchups all day, then the grinder at night.

Good idea, must give that a go!

One of the problems with most commercial mills is the tubular handle that runs the full length of the mill is set quite low. Apart from forcing the operator to lean over more than necessary if they want to use this handle, this tube gets in the way of filing from the other side. One way around his is to move the bar away from the mill rails similar to making a deep cut with the mill but that mean constantly adjusting the depth of cut hi and then back to the required height.

The other way around this is to set the tubular handle higher like shown on the top mill in this picture, this makes it quite easy to file from the other side. The other mill is a granberg.

 

[redprospector]

I like grinding chain. I just have a tendancy to get carried away with it.

Andy

 

[Hddnis]

Several shops around here charge $15 per chain. I have never used them, but seen several of the chains they have done and they did a great job. I just don't know why someone would pay half or more of the price of a new chain.

I started sharpening chains for friends at $5 a chain up to a 30" bar, which is the longest I've been asked to do so far.

I don't really like doing it. I couldn't do it for hours at a time. I just love seeing a really sharp chain cut and get satisfaction knowing that chains I sharpen will cut that way.

My rule has always been that saws get put away clean, with a sharp chain and full fluids. This came from years of having to use them during storms and in emergencies.


Mr. HE

 

[Hddnis]

Oops!

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Ax-man]

Get one of these they don't cost to much and make a good result !!
A shopowner freind has one and is very happy with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBbHGHZp5SE&feature=related

That was so cool I watched it more than once. Seems all the cool stuff is on the other side of the big pond.

If I had one of those I would give up the hand files just to watch it sharpen chains.

I have a stand up grinder but it just sits in the corner gathering dust. Much easier sharpening by hand. No wheel changing or taking chains off of saws.

I could always get a faster cutting chain doing it by hand than using a machine.

If I did sharpen chains for extra money I would use my grinder because I don't have a good system for off the saw sharpening doing it by hand. I have had people ask to sharpen their saws because no one around here that does it knows what they are doing. It is hard doing it by hand without a proper vise dedicated to just sharpening saw chain.

After seeing what people do to a chain I don't know if I would want to do it for extra money. With or without a grinder.

Just a footnote on this crooked cutting by uneven teeth and improper raker height. The bar itself contributes so much to a nice straight cut. Bars with uneven, thin and spread rails and in some cases are slightly bent also contribute to crooked cutting. Keeping your sprocket in good shape also helps.

Larry

 

[Philbert]

I don't mind doing it, but if I did it every day for a living, my answer might be different.

+1

I set up my grinder outside and do 4 - 6 chains. Get the satisfaction out of bringing them back to life getting a good edge.

I have always sat on the saw and filed the chain. This is what I was taught so it's all I know.This is the most comfortable way I have found though i'm getting older and my legs get stiff. How do you sharpen a chain off the saw with a file? Put it in a vice or what. It sure would be nice to be able to stand and do it.

You can put the bar in a vice (or use a stump vice - see link below) if the chain on the saw. I salvaged a couple of old bars (.050, .063) for sharpening off of the saw with an Oregon 23736A filing guide (similar to the Granberg File-n-Joint). Drove the front sprocket out so that they worked with any pitch chain.

If you do it with the chain off of the saw with just a hand file you need to make some kind of simple dog, similar to those used on the guides and grinders, to keep the chain from sliding backward when you file.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15246&catID=

Philbert

 

[rmihalek]

Get a wrench!

A neighbor stopped by once when I was cutting up some logs and noticed the large chips on the ground. He mentioned that his saw only makes dust. I said "bring over your chain and I'll touch it up for you." He then said (or "asked" might be a better term...) "those chains come off?"

Turns out he had an old (1980's) Poulan with the original chain on it and about 1/10th of the original cutter left. I showed him how to get the chain off and said that he'd best just get another chain because the one he had was done. (I think there were some fossils under the clutch cover.)

I enjoy sharpening chains. I tried the local saw shop where the teenager grinding chains turned all my cutters blue. Then I realized I was glad I enjoyed sharpening.

 

[Apterix]

Grinder anyone!

just because it happened to land in my in-box (I think I must have bought something from them once).

http://www.garrettwade.com/product....9011020&eid=E9011021&lm=wade&bhcd2=1234045216

Can anyone relate any experience with this little Italian grinder?

Personally, over 6 years or so of sharpening up to 13 ft (in your money) of 404" chain, off a sawmill most every day, I started out and then went back to filing by hand.
In between I did spend a year or 2 with a grinder. It was a Jolly grinder and the only available wheels were pink 80 grit aluminium oxide (5 1/2"). I was then given an aluminium wheel with sintered diamond that may have been 120 grit and it was nice but I wore it out. I found out that steel converts to ferrous carbide and uses up the diamond. I did price up a CBN wheel but it was considered too much of an expense by management.

Grinding can be satisfying but I don't think I would actually say I liked it, especially dry grinding with aluminium oxide grit. I did actually run coolant on them after a while.
What I like is getting the best possible edge on a cutter, so I went back to filing.
I had been sharpening ripping mill chains with a round file and went over to grinding them to a round profile. I thought it would save time, but in the end it did not save a lot.

Then I found a source of chisel bit files and after a lot of reading on this site, I resolved to to learn to square file. This I would describe as one of the more difficult things I have ever attempted, it took months to learn and years to master. I had been told that once you learn to square file you will never go back to a round file and I have found this to be an absolute truism. This is based on both the difficulty of getting there and the superior cutting performance.
Thus it becomes, in the context of this forum, like a religion.
Then to further propitiate Perversity itself I switched from filing outside in to inside out. Talk about post-graduate brain gym.

The ancient bog Kauri (pine) presented particular challenges needing as keen an edge as possible. The wood has lost all it's extractives to the swamp acids and the less dense wood (core-wood especially) can produce stringy fibres which hang in the gullet and on the cutter, eventually causing your cut to deviate. This was not helped by the lovely clean logs in peat being dragged out through sand before I got to saw them up.

With the grinding, 80 grit dry grinding which is common in most saw shops in New Zealand is a compromise of coarse grit in a soft matrix to keep things cool but it does not give a very good edge. It is also very easy to burn a cutter and so I haven't trusted a shop to sharpen my chain in decades.
If you go back to where they Stihl make the saws, the chains were originally ground wet in a coolant bath (paraffin/kerosene).
Now with Cubic Boron Nitride wheels dry grinding may be OK.

I was sharpening my own chains repeatedly much of the time, so each cutter just needed a lick of the grindstone. I found more and more that the grinder I was using was just not as accurate as I wanted.

Switching over to square filing the accuracy thing is even more critical.
At the moment I am filing. Now that I am back to milling very much part time using a Granberg Alaskan mill, I haven't sought out a suitable grinder/CBN wheel yet. I take the chain off to sharpen it in a chain vice I have made up.

Greetings BobL, I have a little sister, B-I-L and niece in your fine city. Needless to say sis is a K1W1. To follow your example I must get out the camera and show off some useful mods.

If there is anyone wanting to get technical, much of this can be taken to more detailed levels.

Can anyone here (Lakeside53 ?) suggest how to start a serious thread on oil without getting bogged down in GaryGoop. On these fair isles it might be called 'taking the mickey' for the Irish diaspora, or more commonly 'taking the piss', but like Ireland there are no snakes here for snake oil.

Specifically our chain bar lube has almost doubled in price and I am looking for alternatives.

Cheers
Apterix the Kiwi

Stihl 090AV, 60" bar, Granberg Alaskan Mill
2 Stihl 038AV
Sawfish (NZ made) aluminium beam chainsaw mill