Echo CS-590 timberwolf vs. Echo CS-600P

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I still really like the 600p...
And stuff...
I like it better than the 361 Stihl...

yeah, i'll hang on to my 600p as well, not sure how one could burn up a non strat saw before a strat saw, more air is pumped in to the strat, which means you better be on top of your carb adjustments on these as well.......................;)
 
Rant follows:

Well, I know about bunker fuel and what comes out of coal fired power plants, and the various inequities of the emissions rules. Nonetheless, 2-stroke OPE have been some seriously high output polluters in aggregate based on the fundamental defects of their engine design and the crappy fuel systems that are used. Both of these things can be corrected by better design, and have been - strato address the former.

I'm predisposed to like Echo stuff, as I have some of their stuff and it is well made. However, here is a company that did not invest in product development and has not ponied up for the royalties for what others developed. They are passing off old tech 2-strokes set too lean, with limiter caps and a cat as a band-aide - on a fuel system that is inherently unable to compensate for variations in temperature, atmospheric changes, variations in fuel characteristics or even load. One of two things will happen with these saws:

1. Someone will "fix" them, which will defeat the emissions control and turn them back into polluters again

2. More likely they will be run as-is, with strong odds they will burn themselves up, wasting the hard earned money of the people who buy them due to no fault of theirs.

Echo knows this. I've spent too much money on various similarly poorly engineered products - mowers and generators with non-adjustable carbs that did not work until I redesigned them, etc. I regard this as an unethical business practice on Echo's part. The technology is developed and even the cheapest plastic Poulan has it - there is no excuse for Echo to pawn off obsolete junk at this price point. Maybe they could try packing the adjuster screws with epoxy next.

My job title at work is Principal Hardware Engineer. Part of my responsibility is making sure bad ideas and poorly executed junk doesn't get out - I have no patience for such stuff.

/Rant
not to sound rude, but after all this rant, i'm wondering how you feel about the saws you have listed in your sig?..............:msp_confused:
 
Hey;

If you don't have this tool, get one: Dremel variable speed, with the metal cutting discs.
Read threads on "omitting" the cat converter ;) (hint: that's why the dremel is needed.)

Everyone on earth should be given a dremel tool when they are born.

Yeah I've had mine for about a year now. use it to sharpen every damn thing . Pick axe , lawn mower blades, chainsaw blades, brush cutter blades . . Got a nice one too :biggrin:
 
not to sound rude, but after all this rant, i'm wondering how you feel about the saws you have listed in your sig?..............:msp_confused:
One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.
 
One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.

If I was that worried about emissions I'd get a hand saw and a bicycle. Just what our liberal geen people want. Steve
 
One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.

have you run a 600p?............if not, you should, i think you'd change your point of view quickly......................;)
 
One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.

I'll gladly run my 600P with its "obsolete" technology.
Oh, and any good reed-valved saws too..
Don't need 14k on the tach to work good.
 
have you run a 600p?............if not, you should, i think you'd change your point of view quickly......................;)
Not remotely interested now that I know what it is. There are plenty of good saws on the market, if I was in the market I wouldn't buy that. I like clean air.
 
Pulled the plug on my 8000. Was a tid on the bright side. I just took the caps out the carb and, adjusted the 'H' a tid and put two more wholes in the in the muffler under the vent and opened the vent up little more. no more screen. #### was nothin.
I need this saw to run right for my climbing jobs. So the two saws that had white looking plugs were the cs 400 and the 8000

so thanks guys for teaching me to have Echos that live forever. :rock:
 
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One of them is strato, and I try to use that most. The others are old homowner saws and predate most of the emissions rules, except for the Husky 142e. My wife bought that for me new - the only saw I have that was bought new - and it came with a cat muffler and the mixture set lean. I'm still pi$$ed off at Husky for ripping her off. I removed the cat and set the mixture properly for an old-tech 2-stroke, or it would probably be scored by now. I would never consider any new saw without strato, and I'm hoping some variation of feedback carb gets down into the homeowner Poulan Pro range eventually - only then will I buy a new saw. Husky is starting to get closer - now that they have made the investment for strato and feedback carbs I suspect they will want to press their advantage. And Echo apparently will keep selling stuff that was obsolete years ago, unless they have some new development up their sleeve.

if you're that overly worried about clean air, why'd you remove the cat on the new saw??:confused:
Could've just fattened up the mix enough to run right, and let the cat do its job.
And apparently the 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards, or it wouldn't be for sale.
So you still run saws that pre-date the emissions?
Speaking out of both sides of your mouth IMO.
 
Keep the faith. The EPA and CARB depend on you for continued funding and expansion of power...
The EPA is mostly just another corrupt and dysfunctional government agency in bed with the large corporations that does not ask for my permission to use my tax dollars. That does not mean everything they do is awful. And I don't live in California.

if you're that overly worried about clean air, why'd you remove the cat on the new saw??:confused:
Could've just fattened up the mix enough to run right, and let the cat do its job.
And apparently the 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards, or it wouldn't be for sale.
So you still run saws that pre-date the emissions?
Speaking out of both sides of your mouth IMO.
I removed the cat because I understand how saw carbs work, and a cat is not a viable system on engine that pumps a significant portion of its fuel charge out the exhaust unburned and has a carb that runs so rich the engine misfires if you let off the load - oh, that's right, it doesn't the way they come and the engine will fail due to a too lean mixture under load. With the mixture fattened up the cat will get hot and still not be able to catalyze much of that unburned fuel. It's a dumb a$$ non-solution.

The 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards as long as you don't defeat the factory mixture limitations. Go ahead, run it that way, I dare you!

While I like playing with chainsaws, they are not just toys to me, they are tools that enable me to heat with wood instead of fossil fuels even though I have an regular job that takes my time. This reduces the fossil fuels I use, their cost to my family, and reduces the overall pollution and CO2 I put out (in spite of the saws), and thus my contribution to climate change. The vast majority of that wood gets cut with my 40cc strato saw, with the larger saws saved for when they are required, and the 42cc Poulans kept around because they are by far the most common saw out there and I expect major economic problems near term - I can always keep one of those running. The others are for fun and backups.

It's too bad my older non strato saws are such polluting pigs, but that is what the industry made then, and all it would be making now if not forced to change - because a corporation will always provide the absolute minimum it has to to get your money.

Oh, and if you guys think I'm ashamed of being environmentally concerned, you are mistaken.
 
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The EPA is mostly just another corrupt and dysfunctional government agency in bed with the large corporations that does not ask for my permission to use my tax dollars. That does not mean everything they do is awful. And I don't live in California.

I removed the cat because I understand how saw carbs work, and a cat is not a viable system on engine that pumps a significant portion of its fuel charge out the exhaust unburned and has a carb that runs so rich the engine misfires if you let off the load - oh, that's right, it doesn't the way they come and the engine will fail due to a too lean mixture under load. With the mixture fattened up the cat will get hot and still not be able to catalyze much of that unburned fuel. It's a dumb a$$ non-solution.

The 'obsolete' Echo design does just fine by EPA standards as long as you don't defeat the factory mixture limitations. Go ahead, run it that way, I dare you!

While I like playing with chainsaws, they are not just toys to me, they are tools that enable me to heat with wood instead of fossil fuels even though I have an regular job that takes my time. This reduces the fossil fuels I use, their cost to my family, and reduces the overall pollution and CO2 I put out (in spite of the saws), and thus my contribution to climate change. The vast majority of that wood gets cut with my 40cc strato saw, with the larger saws saved for when they are required, and the 42cc Poulans kept around because they are by far the most common saw out there and I expect major economic problems near term - I can always keep one of those running. The others are for fun and backups.

It's too bad my older non strato saws are such polluting pigs, but that is what the industry made then, and all it would be making now if not forced to change - because a corporation will always provide the absolute minimum it has to to get your money.

Oh, and if you guys think I'm ashamed of being environmentally concerned, you are mistaken.
I bet you are against guns and sharp objects too.
 
lots of saws out there with the cat still in the muffler tuned properly running just fine. and will for a very long time.
what i don't get is how do people think retuning the carb is 'fixing' the saw. do they think tuning a saw is a new thing? and i don't think this is a sole problem of echo. weather it's a strato or not. you run a strato lean and it will fail just as fast as a non-strat. the epa don't care how the saw runs, they only care what is coming out of the muffler.
you think the big companies would be building the statos if there wasn't any epa?
why do some startos run well? design credits. make an engine seem to run cleaner due to a different design and they let you get a little more agressive with the porting.
 

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