Extreme Stihl Dealer Dissapointment

[zich6]

how does ONE DEALERSHIPS refusal to offer you the same deal as another privately owned dealership reflect poorly on the COMPANY who's products they both carry!?
this is crazy talk - hate the 1st dealership who made the deal (and broke the deal) all you'd like.. but thats as far as you should really be taking this..any farther and its totally unwarranted and you are just whining and stihl bashing like the rest of em

As our Australian friend has said and others, it's about attitude. Any dealers who when asked politely "can you please do better than DSRP?" and are met with "That's the price, if you don't like it, go somewhere else," are reflecting negatively on the company in my opinion. This is exactly the wording I used and the dealers I spoke to used.

If you think this is how Stihl US wants their customers treated (or any company wants their customers treated), why don't you ask your regional Stihl rep and let us know what he says?

 

[spike60]

The distributer rep's name is Jim Baker and he can be reached at (919)645-4006. If you still don't think a distributer would provide this information, I suggest you call him. Oh, and before you call someone a liar, you'd better have more information than you have. It makes you appear very ignorant.

Talk about appearing ignorant. Public rants are bad enough, but posting this guys name and phone number is incredibly stupid.

You have a legitimate reason to be upset with the first dealer jerking you around about ordering the saw. But you are out of line being "underwelmed" with Stihl or in expecting some other dealer to honor the first guys price. The only dealer who made that price commitment to you was the first guy. Neither Stihl, nor any other dealer in the country is part of that commitment. You ought to lighten up and try to enjoy your saw.

 

[zich6]

you guys are arguing with a retard that makes ya a retard too. its no wonder you got retards like him beating up dealers on pricing and people looking at this industry as a redneck backyard hobby type business that gets no respect because lots of you guys tell the public about the inner workings of your business with manufacturers, distributors, expenses, margins and such giving retard consumers and just consumers in general who have no business knowing any of this information even more ammunition.

As the ESPN Football crew says: "C'mon Man." Can't we discuss this without name calling?

As I've said, to me, this isn't about haggling. It's more about dealer attitude. If you've read through the posts on this thread you should know that I'm not the only one that has experienced Stihl dealer attitude issues.

I don't expect dealers to kiss my but, or sell a saw for what I want to pay. He has the right to charge what he wants and if I don't like it, I'll go someplace else. What I do expect, and I've never spoken disrespectfully to a Stihl dealer, is to be treated fairly and respectfully. You may disagree, but in my opinion, "that's the price and if you don't like it go somewhere else," isn't it.

 

[zich6]

I think you need to learn that just because a 'tard dangles a rope in front of you, you do not have to pick it up and play tug of war.

Every one of my saws is a Stihl. I think they are better saws in the long run, though the Efco line is pretty darn good and a good deal cheaper.

Again, let's discuss this without name calling. I may not agree with your opinion, but all are welcome.

 

[zich6]

This is not Mexico, and you are not buying a pineapple from a toothless hag in an open market in Oaxaca. Do you have any idea how dang hard it is to keep the doors of a business open, how expensive it is?

Some people with the "smart shopper" mentality are little more than spoiled whiny brats. I have NEVER called anyone a name in three years on this forum, but in your case, I will make an exception. Spoiled whiny brats like you expect dealers to lick yer butt to make a sale. That is why businesses are dropping off the map. I'd like to see you make a new air filter for that nice 460 out of an old pair of panty hose. After the dealers go down, maybe you can mill a piston out of an aluminum can, after 500 hours of reliable cutting on that beast. I am happy to pay MSRP on a Stihl product. Our local (former) dealer marked Stihl up 20% from MSRP, and once I figured that out, I went to a dealer in the town where I work. Big deal.

Later edit: Sorry about the name-calling. Sometimes I just shouldn't post...... I think that dealers need to be able to make a profit on what they sell, because it takes a lot of dough to pay overhead and staff, and I am amazed that as many manage to stay open as they do, if that makes sense. Part of the prob is all the taxes and fees, and then there are the large number of mail-order saws sold, which is likely why Stihl does not allow that. Glad you got the saw, hope it serves you a long time.

I think we all say things from time to time that we wish we hadn't. Thanks.

 

[zich6]

Zich is one short sighted fellow. When I bought my 460 Friday afternoon he showed me his cost and we decided on a fair deal based off that, he did the same thing on my 361.

It sounds like you have a good dealer with a good attitude who respects his customers. It doesn't sound like your dealer would tell a first time buyer "that's the price and if you don't like it go somewhere esle." I'm not sure from your post if he did do that to you, he'd be your dealer now.

 

[zich6]

"Like Blitz, I know the profit margin on Stihl saws is nothing short of huge. There is plenty of room for a dealer to negotiate. That said, you have a right to charge anything you want for your products. I have the right and will find the best deal."

You wrote that Zich and yes it was very easy to point to, dayummm I'm too good, that paste and copy thing will come back to nip at ya heals,LOL

No fear though, next time your in town you come on by and I'll buy ya pepsi and we can talk saws, deals and so forth. You don't have to spend a penny to have a good time at the ole shop, there's a few on here will tell ya that. Who know's I may have something on special ya might want. A 460 is a awful lot of saw for thinning, just a thought,hehe

"Huge" may have been a might strong, but the point remains that there is plenty of room to negotiate.

Alls good. You don't have a "take-it-or-leave-it attitude either and you been spoken very highly of here and since now I don't have to show up with cash falling out of my wallet, I will probably stop by sometime. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[zich6]

...no more annoying than dealers demanding DSRP.

Do you pay list price for your cars, or do you haggle? If you haggle for your cars, like nearly everyone in the US, why are saws different? On average, they have the same marketing strategy, dealer negotiation latitude, and although I don't know for certain, based on car dealer invoice prices widely available on the web, saws appear to have even more profit margin if sold at DSRP, which again is what my local dealers are demanding.

As to your second point, dealers have no right to eat better than their customers.

Look, I think I speak for more than myself when I say that customers want the dealers to make a reasonable profit. However, I don't think customers want dealers to make a killing on them. To me, that would be paying DSRP.

It would be great if Tommy, or another dealer would publish what the dealer cost is on saws, but I'm not holding my breath. I suspect that it's large enough such that a 10% discount still results in a substantial profit to the dealer.[/QUOTE]

Now Zich your a believer in capitalism, correct? Now you know in capitalism the cost is always kept quiet and there is a reason. Business's cannot let the customer set the price because in a capitalist society every business would go under in a heartbeat if they let the buyer set the price based on telling them their cost. The seller knows what he needs to pay his bills, the buyer does not, simple as that.

Before going to bed though here's a few for ya. Super Glue is marked up 700%. Software by major software markers is marked up 100% or more. Try working a deal with them cats, good luck. Furniture goes at around 150%. How do I know, I know the guy that runs the store here in town, he told me and yes he laffs about his 30% and 50% off sales. See saw dealers aren't so bad after all.

I respectfully disagree. There are many web sites like Edmund's where you can find precisely what the dealer invoice price for a car is and cars aren't the only product where that information is available. In fact, a previous poster described a situation where he sat down with his Stihl dealer and the dealer showed him his cost for a saw. Then they decided on a fair price. That information that the poster had did not allow him to set the price. The dealer can always insist on any price he wants. There is no violation of capitalism principles because that dealer has competition and after seeing the dealer cost, if he doesn't like the price the dealer wants, he can go elsewhere.

Regarding your other product examples, as I've said before, they have a different marketing strategy, like Walmart, that doesn't allow employees to negotiate pricing. If your friend owns his own store, he mat be able to negotiate pricing, but it is not typical for those items anywhere. Stihl, on the other hand has price negotiation, like other saw manufacturers and cars, built into their marketing strategy. So, your analogy isn't valid. The car example is more to the point. Stihl dealers don't have to negotiate (and boy don't I know it), but they can. Also, the per cent age mark-up isn't the issue, it's the amount of money that can be saved. Scoff if you want, but 10% off a 460 is orders of magnitude more money in my pocket than 90% off super glue. So, as a practical matter, I don't waste my time haggling on inexpensive items, but I do shop where I get the best price and availability.

So, do you haggling with cars? Just from what you've posted here, you appear to be a smart enough guy that I think I know the answer. So, why should saws be different?

 

[zich6]

Talk about appearing ignorant. Public rants are bad enough, but posting this guys name and phone number is incredibly stupid.

You have a legitimate reason to be upset with the first dealer jerking you around about ordering the saw. But you are out of line being "underwhelmed" with Stihl or in expecting some other dealer to honor the first guys price. The only dealer who made that price commitment to you was the first guy. Neither Stihl, nor any other dealer in the country is part of that commitment. You ought to lighten up and try to enjoy your saw.

Since you're the only one to comment on the posting of the name and number, I think you're alone, so far, in your opinion. As a practical matter anyone can get my area reps name and number by calling Stihl, making it widely available to anyone with a phone. Therefore, I think "incredibly stupid" should be reserved for those who speak without thinking.

You are entitled to your opinion about Stihl's relationship with their dealers and I'm entitled to mine.

 

[porch monkey]

I drive by 3 stihl dealers just to get to the one I like to do biz with...and hes not always the cheapest. Theres a lot more ways for a dealer to show you that he wants your business and appreciates your business than just selling stuff cheaper. I agree that sometimes the Hall guy comes across as an arrogant prick. But Im pretty sure that if I lived within 50 miles of him he'd be my dealer

 

[bcsizemo]

Well this is just a side example:

I worked for a local PC company for about 5 years or so. A lot of the general public seemed to think the markup on parts was fairly large, but in reality what you see on somewhere like Newegg is just a couple of percent higher than what they are paying. Newegg can get away with that because they are moving volume, just like Wal-Mart.

As a sales person you learn to read your customers. If I've never met you before and you are asking a lot about pricing and and seem fairly knowledgeable about the parts then I don't really need to haggle with you. I doubt I'll see you much if ever again anyway. If you obviously don't know anything and are just looking to save a few pennies they yeah, we will see what we can do. At that point you can start building a relationship because they are looking for someone they can trust to treat them right.

Some of our good customers we didn't see but every quarter, but that was fine because they kept coming back. We didn't have the cheapest prices in town all the time, but we gave good service (sales and repair) and were honest and up front about things.

At one time close to 50% of our net profit was from repair, and I'd bet 25% or more of the total net profit was from our chi-com stuff. Markup on something like a CPU might have been 5-10%, mark up on that 6ft HDMI cable was about 500% (and that still put it at 1/3 the cost of Wal-Mart/Target). So we made a lot of profit from small items people needed a lot.

The first dealer the OP dealt with didn't have good customer service, and to call the Stihl rep to inform them of this was fine. Having the Stihl rep call other dealers to get them to give him a similar deal was fine on the part of the rep. He was just trying to smooth things over with a customer. Having another dealer decline a sale, that's their business (and I have no problem with that.) Stihl dealers are not Stihl, they all operate as an independent business. And if they don't want to haggle or what not then that's fine. Find one who will.

If a big box store like Lowes or Home Depot gives me issues than that reflects on the company. If my Toyota car melts down then that reflects bad on the quality of Toyota products, but if my dealer then is slack about getting my car fixed in a timely manner that reflects on the dealership.

-products and price can be had from anyone selling what you want.
-good service can only be provided by good people and good dealers.

Sometimes you can have both, sometimes not. Pick your choice.

 

[Fish]

Since you're the only one to comment on the posting of the name and number, I think you're alone, so far, in your opinion. As a practical matter anyone can get my area reps name and number by calling Stihl, making it widely available to anyone with a phone. Therefore, I think "incredibly stupid" should be reserved for those who speak without thinking.

You are entitled to your opinion about Stihl's relationship with their dealers and I'm entitled to mine.

No he is not alone, that is against the rules as well.

You certainly have devoted a lot of time to this, you must be retired and bored,
or else have a job where they don't police your internet.

There are some prolific posters here that goof off at work here, so I am not
judging you............................................

 

[zich6]

I drive by 3 stihl dealers just to get to the one I like to do biz with...and hes not always the cheapest. Theres a lot more ways for a dealer to show you that he wants your business and appreciates your business than just selling stuff cheaper. I agree that sometimes the Hall guy comes across as an arrogant prick. But Im pretty sure that if I lived within 50 miles of him he'd be my dealer

I agree. Cheapest isn't always best. I'll bet you like the attitude of the dealer you drive to though because he treats you fairly and with respect.

 

[teacherman]

Wheeee!

This has turned into an interesting discussion. Long time members recall that I normally start prescribing Midol® when folks get into a pi$$ing match ...:hmm3grin2orange:
(i've had my dose) LOL Seems most folks have settled down.

I think a lot of it boils down to philosophy. We in the US have really gotten spoiled as consumers, with the "customer is always right" mentality, which unfortunately has spilled over into product liability lawsuits, which add a fair amount to the price of products we buy. I recall when the consumer didn't have quite the leverage he has now, I think back in the late 80s there was a move toward more comprehensive warranties, liberal return policies and such. With all the taxes and regs, business is darn hard to do. Thus the rise of the big box store.... economy of scale is for real. Even Stihl dealers are tiered by size with respect to inventory financing, giving the large dealer a real competitive advantage. Fair or not, it is real. I like having some sort of relationship with the folks I do business with, it is part of building community, which seems to be going by the wayside these days.

My earlier comment about Mexico was from an experience in 1976 in Mexico. In an open air rural market in Oaxaca, a lady had pineapples priced at 70 centavos (about a nickel then), I had a case of the local water trots, and just paid the price. She looked at me as though I were from Mars. I guess the haggling was expected, and me not doing that was seen as some sort of rejection. What a deal. A nickel for a fresh pineapple. It was fresh, ripe, and yummy.

 

[atvguns]

Ok I have got to tell my story hope it don't stir the pot to much. I have a stihl dealer located 10 miles from me, I went in one day and looked at some of the weed whackers which had the price tag on them I asked him if I found one a little cheaper some other place if he would match their price he said H### no. So I called a few other places in a 40 mile radious and all of them was 10-20 dollars cheaper. After a couple of weeks of contimplating I decided this guy is closer I'll just give him the extra 20 no biggy. When I walked in the door there was several of his buds setting around the shop the first think he said to me was (did you ever find anyone to give you a weedwhacker) he made it a point to say it loud enough for everyone to hear, they all started laughing. I said no I didn't I decided to buy from you. I pulled the cash out of my front pocket so he could see it and said but I guess that aint going to happen. I turned around walked out ain't been back sense So was it him or me that runt the close good dealer relationship

Dang I did alot of work typing all that and nobody even answered my question

 

[zich6]

No he is not alone, that is against the rules as well.

You certainly have devoted a lot of time to this, you must be retired and bored,
or else have a job where they don't police your internet.

There are some prolific posters here that goof off at work here, so I am not
judging you............................................

Ah, reading. I said "...I think you're alone, so far, in your opinion." Since you commented on the posting of the name of the dealer and not the rep, and I can't find another post that criticized the posting of the rep, he was, in fact, alone.

My philosophy on thread starting is to contribute and respond. As I've taught my sons, when you start something, you better finish it. I don't think bowing out with all the criticism I've gotten is the right thing to do. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind criticism. I've gotten it all my life and it's made me a much better person. But to remain silent in the face of it, to me, is not how I was raised and I won't do it in most circumstances.

I am semi-retired and do have considerable free time, although I question whether all the time I've spent on this is worthwhile. It would be worthwhile if just one saw buyer, or one dealer here changed their attitude towards dealers, or customers and decided to treat them with as much fairness and respect as they'd like shown to them. The old saying "due unto others as you would like them to do unto you" are words I think we can all live by.

If we can agree on that, I'm ready to move on and learn more about saws. If not, I guess I'll keep responding to further criticism.

 

[spacemule]

I don't think anyone has addressed this. It's not haggling per se that's annoying, it's playing one dealer off another that's annoying. If someone wants to make an offer that's less, that's one thing, but to say "Billy Bob Rabbit Thumper down the road will sell it for x, will you sell it for y is just annoying." What that tells the dealer right off is that the dude is going around wasting people's time and is not interested in making an honest deal. There is much talk of dealers being rude, but customers acting in this fashion is every bit as rude, probably moreso.

 

[Bob Wright]

Personally, I think the OP is FOS. No Stihl dist would ever discuss dist-dealer workings with a consumer.

If they did then they are wrong also to pass on that info. But i know people who love to talk...Bob

 

[THALL10326]

I respectfully disagree. There are many web sites like Edmund's where you can find precisely what the dealer invoice price for a car is and cars aren't the only product where that information is available. In fact, a previous poster described a situation where he sat down with his Stihl dealer and the dealer showed him his cost for a saw. Then they decided on a fair price. That information that the poster had did not allow him to set the price. The dealer can always insist on any price he wants. There is no violation of capitalism principles because that dealer has competition and after seeing the dealer cost, if he doesn't like the price the dealer wants, he can go elsewhere.

Regarding your other product examples, as I've said before, they have a different marketing strategy, like Walmart, that doesn't allow employees to negotiate pricing. If your friend owns his own store, he mat be able to negotiate pricing, but it is not typical for those items anywhere. Stihl, on the other hand has price negotiation, like other saw manufacturers and cars, built into their marketing strategy. So, your analogy isn't valid. The car example is more to the point. Stihl dealers don't have to negotiate (and boy don't I know it), but they can. Also, the per cent age mark-up isn't the issue, it's the amount of money that can be saved. Scoff if you want, but 10% off a 460 is orders of magnitude more money in my pocket than 90% off super glue. So, as a practical matter, I don't waste my time haggling on inexpensive items, but I do shop where I get the best price and availability.

So, do you haggling with cars? Just from what you've posted here, you appear to be a smart enough guy that I think I know the answer. So, why should saws be different?[/QUOTE]

I was afraid you might ask that and beleive it or not the answer is no, I do not haggle, fuss, argue, or request anything when buying something other than the product itself. Now your thinking no way, he's lying his azz off. Awwwwwwwwwww I gots proof and you've been replieing to him.

That fellow Spike your replieing to, he's a Husqvarna dealer up in NY. Helluva nice guy. Now before Husqvarna put a clamp on online selling I wanted me one of those 346NE chainsaws. I called Spike, told him what I wanted, gave him my credit card number and the last thing I said to him is I don't care what it cost just send it on down to me. He did just that. I didn't ask for anything off and by joe wouldn't you know it, he treated me good, real good.

I think the main scobble about fussing over saw prices is the buyer thinks the seller is making some big bucks on a new saw when I know for a fact he isn't. To prove it I would have to show the actual cost to the buyer. I would be a fool to do that for that would allow the buyer to decide how much he feels is a fair profit which is probably way less than fair and I would have to tell him to go f himself. See how that leads to all sorts of trouble, never a good idea to show ya cost.

 

[Fish]

The original dealer was likely hoping to get together a large enough order to
get the shipping paid for, or building a bigger order to get terms, and after
doing thus may have found his account on hold until his bill was caught up to
date, {this has been real common in the last couple of years}, dealers are
barely scraping by until spring, and the distributors have changed to a much
more conservative policy and not letting the dealers get too far behind.

He should have contacted you about the delay, but didn't, he likely didn't want
to have to explain, or the guy you dealt with maybe couldn't explain, well, not the
truth.

I worked for a dealer once that was always late with paying his bills, the dist. reps
had to come by and squeeze a check out of him.
So the ability to get parts or saws was never a certain thing.

So if a part or saw didn't come in when expected, I would have to stall with an excuse, telling the harsh truth would have gotten me fired.
Usually I would use the word "backordered".
One time a customer went to the owner to complain about not getting a Lawnboy
part he ordered, and the owner came into the shop with the customer and confronted me saying,"Mr. Smith has been getting the runaround on getting his
part, what is the problem, John?"

I stood there for a few seconds, and almost told the truth, but instead handed
him the phone and said, "Why don't you call them?"