Facecut question.

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Yeah i have taken some Training when i was in school. I forgot to add that in, an escape route. I always wear a hardhat and need to wear my chaps more........... i know i need to just dont that often.

Any clue what the method is called my mind is failing.....

I just know it as "directional felling", but there may be other names. You have to be certified in it in order to bid on any state timber harvests here in Missouri. When I took the class the first time, the instructor said he wanted me to stand next to him when he buys lottery tickets. I wasn't sure how to take that, until he added, "you cut trees like that and you're still alive? You've gotta be the luckiest SOB I know!" Nothing like a good serving of humble pie with a dozen professional loggers watching (and laughing).

I know its hard to wear chaps when it's 110 deg outside. I'm on my second pair, though. My first pair has a big rip just above the left knee. I didn't even realize it until the chain wouldn't run because it was loaded up with fibers. That's another rule... adjust the saw idle to where the chain stops spinning. It's important to realize when you've done something stupid and try not to do it again. So far, I've been lucky with only a couple of dislocations, one fracture, and various mashed finger nails. I still don't buy lottery tickets though. Not that lucky.
 
I don't think that west coast loggers are totally dismissive of the bore cut. Most of us, myself included, will use it when it's called for and recognize that it's another option available to us.

As a general rule the bore cut, in our type of timber, doesn't work as well as some of the other cuts. I've had better luck with the Coos Bay cut on heavy leaners, especially if the tree has any size to it.
I've used the bore cut falling small stuff, 24" and below, and it works fairly well when bucking a long log in a bind.

Use what works. I sure wouldn't want to be limited to just a couple of techniques.

Thats all i am looking to do is add to my toolbox.
 
As been mentioned here before, it really depends on what you are doing. I've spent a lot of time felling in Europe, and am back there again. They use a 'traditional' face cut and like to cut as low as possible to the ground - to the extent of cleaning up the buttresses on some trees before cutting(especially beech). You can't really do this and use a humbolt cut. I also like the standard cut for speed on the smaller trees. With just small amount of practice, and sighting down the top cut, you can make your cuts meet perfectly every time, very quickly as you will see your bar as it nears and meets the top cut. It's handy when you have a hillside full of smallish(10-20" dbh) trees that need to go quickly. If you look on your chainsaw, you'll see there is a sighting groove on the top of it and not just the sides. That is for lining up your cuts when you start it the 'european' way, with the top cut first. It gets harder to do with larger trees unless you leave a small piece at the end and nip it later as the wood can be heavy, or if the tree is large enough(like 4'DBH+) where you can just cut the face wedge into two so it falls away. But, on larger trees, I do prefer a humbolt. Some of the ash and beech we have here love to split, barber chair, and pull on you. A simple pair of side cuts and cutting the back in a 'triangle' fashion tends to relieve the pulling issue. We bore cut if a hardwood tree is leaning a lot. Some folks like to purposely make it so you have to lever the tree or wedge it over to prevent pulling and for safety. I have seen a short as a 20% face cut on smallish trees in these instances, and the use of a felling lever. While safer, mebbe, it takes more time than I care to give to small trees.

They also use much shorter bars for costs savings and safety. I, personally, use enough bar if I can to prevent having to do any more cuts than I need to. But my main set up looks like it's gonna be a 20" or 18" bar on ported 365 with a BB top end, running an 8 tooth sprocket when I am done with it, so I can use and bring just the one saw for most work. The bark here is thin, so it's enough bar most of the time with the short dawgs. I am considering getting one of the Husky tech lite bars, but that;s going to have to wait until I make a bit more cash.
 
Thats all i am looking to do is add to my toolbox.

That's a good idea. Try the bore cut when you're bucking a log with bind in it...especially a large log.
I'm not good at explaining things on here but if you have a log down across a swale with the ends supported and the rest hanging down in the middle and it's bound on top you can put a run in the top and a run in the far side...just until the kerf barely starts to close...then bore cut the center, then underbuck it to trip the cut.
I've had a lot of luck doing it that way with logs over 36", especially with wood that's prone to slab out.
 
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What is the general rule for how deep folks put their notch? I've always used 75 to 80 percent dbh for the width of the hingewood. What do you pro fallers do?

The rule that says the hinge width should be 80% of the diameter isn't a good rule. It was something Soren Erikson(GOL) made up to try and make his bore/plunge cut work on small trees. And I say made up because there is no EXACT science on what the depth of your face notch should be. I've always been taught somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 is how deep your face notch should be.

The 80% sounds like a good number, but in reality will leave you with face notch's that are only 1/4 to 1/5 deep. Trust me, if you only needed to go in a 1/4 or less to be safe probably most everyone here out west would do that. Being that it is faster than going 1/3 to 1/2 deep on your fact notch. But going 1/4 or less on every tree is going to give you more problems and hazards than it's worth.

BTW, I heard that Dent's book is out of print now. That might explain some of the difficulties in getting a new copy of it.
 
That's a good idea. Try the bore cut when you're bucking a log with bind in it...especially a large log.
I'm not good at explaining things on here but if you have a log down across a swale with the ends supported and the rest hanging down in the middle and it's bound on top you can put a run in the top and a run in the far side...just until the kerf barely starts to close...then bore cut the center, then underbuck it to trip the cut.
I've had a lot of luck doing it that way with logs over 36", especially with wood that's prone to slab out.

I have done that before it works very well. before i knew that trick i accidentally slabbed a beautiful 30'' cherry log. the butt was still on the stump and the top was on a hill. I foolishly tried to buck the fist log off with an up-cut and she split full length......... yeah it wasnt pretty. you learn fast from mistakes like that. that was when i was very very green

when bucking logs on a side hill i like to cut down 6'' or so from the top, bore cut the center, and cut up from the bottom. if you line the top and bottom cut up and offset the bore cut a few saw kerfs. it will hold the log from rolling down the hill and break off once the skidder hooks onto it.
 
when bucking logs on a side hill i like to cut down 6'' or so from the top, bore cut the center, and cut up from the bottom. if you line the top and bottom cut up and offset the bore cut a few saw kerfs. it will hold the log from rolling down the hill and break off once the skidder hooks onto it.

That there is a neat little trick I never thought of... Imagine it takes a little practice to perfect.
 
BTW, I heard that Dent's book is out of print now. That might explain some of the difficulties in getting a new copy of it.[/QUOTE]

Could anybody tell me if some of the pictures in that book were like reverse negative.I tried following his bucking technique ,but never could make sense of it.
 
I have done that before it works very well. before i knew that trick i accidentally slabbed a beautiful 30'' cherry log. the butt was still on the stump and the top was on a hill. I foolishly tried to buck the fist log off with an up-cut and she split full length......... yeah it wasnt pretty. you learn fast from mistakes like that. that was when i was very very green

when bucking logs on a side hill i like to cut down 6'' or so from the top, bore cut the center, and cut up from the bottom. if you line the top and bottom cut up and offset the bore cut a few saw kerfs. it will hold the log from rolling down the hill and break off once the skidder hooks onto it.

Got a picture of this?
 
The rule that says the hinge width should be 80% of the diameter isn't a good rule. It was something Soren Erikson(GOL) made up to try and make his bore/plunge cut work on small trees. And I say made up because there is no EXACT science on what the depth of your face notch should be. I've always been taught somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 is how deep your face notch should be.

The 80% sounds like a good number, but in reality will leave you with face notch's that are only 1/4 to 1/5 deep. Trust me, if you only needed to go in a 1/4 or less to be safe probably most everyone here out west would do that. Being that it is faster than going 1/3 to 1/2 deep on your fact notch. But going 1/4 or less on every tree is going to give you more problems and hazards than it's worth.

BTW, I heard that Dent's book is out of print now. That might explain some of the difficulties in getting a new copy of it.


I believe it is only necessary to make your face deep enough to achieve proper hingewood width. The depth of the cut is not what is desired, but the width. Example being if a tree had a flat side in the direction you wanted to fall it a very shallow face would be adequate. Maybe only an inch deep on a 30 in tree. If the tree has a point or root swell sticking out, you might have to go half way through the tree to get you hinge width. This appears to be the same method that mr erickson teaches.

Another thing I do is to put my face cut in the root swell if possible, using conventional style. The face is vertical in this case and you don't cut into the bole of the log at all. Veneer buyers love this.
 
I believe it is only necessary to make your face deep enough to achieve proper hingewood width. The depth of the cut is not what is desired, but the width. Example being if a tree had a flat side in the direction you wanted to fall it a very shallow face would be adequate. Maybe only an inch deep on a 30 in tree. If the tree has a point or root swell sticking out, you might have to go half way through the tree to get you hinge width. This appears to be the same method that mr erickson teaches.

Another thing I do is to put my face cut in the root swell if possible, using conventional style. The face is vertical in this case and you don't cut into the bole of the log at all. Veneer buyers love this.

Given your example, I don't know why you'd bother making a "face cut" in that tree at all. :dizzy:

Andy
 
Given your example, I don't know why you'd bother making a "face cut" in that tree at all. :dizzy:

Andy

You could do it. Just use your pocket-knife instead of a saw.


I've cut some pretty small faces but I don't think I ever cut a 1 incher. I don't know if I could.


Andy, loan me your finger nail file.
 
I actually carry a fingernail file for this exact purpose. And a quick touch up to the nails between tanks:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
 
I actually carry a fingernail file for this exact purpose. And a quick touch up to the nails between tanks:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

This is by far the coolest response to "new guy" harrassment I've ever read. Well done.
 
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