treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
as in wire I assume. ya gonna have to buck that twin stump off anyway, prolly get a grade after that hopefully. you could stand a bit more bar on that one.
Falling pics 11/25/09
- Thread starter Burvol
- Start date
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as in wire I assume. ya gonna have to buck that twin stump off anyway, prolly get a grade after that hopefully. you could stand a bit more bar on that one.
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
Looks more like a grinder than a saw. I thought you were black!:biggrin:
hammerlogging
Addicted to ArboristSite
"wildlife"
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I think its funny when trees get marked as wildlife. Why mark it at all at least in a select cut scenario. I cut a "W" maple tree a couple of jobs ago. There were plenty of unmarked "W" trees in the area and this particular marked "W" had 3 nice 10s in it. I'd like to think it was a mistake, but I've cut jobs marked by this guy before. Not my normal paint guy.
1270d
ArboristSite Guru
The reason they mark them as wildlife is to comply with some fsc or sfi rule. And so they can fine us if we cut em. Whatever, they re not my trees.
That's the faller I have cutting for me, gave him the option of what bar he wanted. 24 it is. He's happy that's what matters.
That's the faller I have cutting for me, gave him the option of what bar he wanted. 24 it is. He's happy that's what matters.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I was kind of worried about that when I cut it, but it was in the way of my set and it did have a stump spot on it. I think he changed his mind a couple of times then sprayed the "W" on it. That stand looked like it was marked by an amateur. It was bad. Marked trees leaning heavily into unmarked trees, not enough marked to lay may trees out, etc. You want to do the best you can do, but in terms of safety and efficiency I ended up cutting a lot of stuff that should have been marked in the first place. It was either that or pull down a lot of trees (which I did the first day or so). Total bs. I think every forester should have to cut a stand of their own marked timber and live off of what they cut before they are allowed to mark anything else in the future. This guy clearly had limited if any time with a saw in his hands. He was a government employee by the way. Not knocking foresters here at all just fed up with incompetent crap that makes my already tough job harder. My guy is pretty good, but there are times where I shake my head. He did production cut about 25 years ago which does make a difference I think.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Bitz, you're starting to sound like a logger.
Well I bought a new starter to keep in the truck because I know the one in the machine is going and I'm pretty sure I'm getting screwed on scale or at least it seems like it. That sound familiar at all? :msp_biggrin:
Yup. Very familiar. I always figure that on scale we're not getting screwed as bad as we think...but we're getting screwed more than we should be.
Gotta go look at marked trees tomorrow and try to figure out where the boundaries are. Private sector tree markers can leave you guessing too. As in..."I marked three of the corners with blue and red ribbon but I ran out of those colors and marked the last corner with white paint instead". Oh. Now I know why I couldn't find that corner. :msp_angry:
See you folks tomorrow.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Yeah if they are stickin me they are very consistent. Time and time again the scale vs the logs sent adds up. I keep a pretty close eye on what I'm sending and what goes out. But still its like man I made a lot of wood today and that's what it scales at? Ah well, that keeps everyone on their toes anyway.
1270d
ArboristSite Guru
The sale I'm cutting now was marked OK in some units but not others. They hire summer students from the university to mark, so lots of experience at nothing at all.
We have some kind of disease coming through and killing a lot of the maple. They die from the top down, well these student markers must have stiff necks. They never tip their heads back enough to see higher than twenty feet. May times there will be a ten or twelve inch slick hard maple marked right next to a withering one or a thirty foot stob which isn't marked. The residual stand isn't nearly as good as it could be.
Oh well, I gave up on arguing. Its their timber. Cut the paint and shut your mouth. I'm not university educated so how could I possibly do a decent job.
We have some kind of disease coming through and killing a lot of the maple. They die from the top down, well these student markers must have stiff necks. They never tip their heads back enough to see higher than twenty feet. May times there will be a ten or twelve inch slick hard maple marked right next to a withering one or a thirty foot stob which isn't marked. The residual stand isn't nearly as good as it could be.
Oh well, I gave up on arguing. Its their timber. Cut the paint and shut your mouth. I'm not university educated so how could I possibly do a decent job.
We have some disease that sounds similar. As a former marker, I'll tell you that nobody can production mark a unit and please everybody. Also, if that maple thing is the same as out here, and they marked the area a year or two ahead of you, there's no way they could tell it was infected with whatever it is. I've got a dead maple that looked very healthy last year.
Marking is the introduction to forestry job. Now, it might help if you loggers suggest to the person in charge of the district that it might be nice for the markers to take a day and wander a unit with you. We can't all be faller gods
and if nobody talks to the crew or shows them what is going on, they'll continue to do the same thing. Also, there usually are no "university educated" folks out marking timber on crews, unless they are liberal arts grads who can't find another job.
Most folks I've worked with marking are locals or just folks who want to work in the woods.
I spent a morning "training" some fallers so they could mark. They did an excellent job. Excellent.
1270d
ArboristSite Guru
The head forester I'm working with right now does a beautiful job marking. Unfortunately he is usually too busy supervising the summer kids and setting up sales/paperwork to mark much.
I live in relatively close to Michigan Tech University which has a popular forestry program. Most of the students in this program take summer jobs marking timber or log scaling.
I would be interested in hearing more about your version of the maple disease.
It actually seems to effect most of our hardwoods, just some take longer to show symptoms. Basswood and black ash seem to last a bit longer as does yellow birch. The name I've heard it referred to is maple dieback or top dieback. The first sign of it is small tufts of green moss in the upper portion of the crown. Within a year or two there will be more dead branches with no bark. It will progress downward from the crown over the course of several years, eventually killing the whole tree.
Foresters in my area seem divided over this. Half(or so) seem to think this is a symptom of drought and the timber will recover, the other half is doing targeted clear cuts to try and nip the spread of the dieback. Lack of water/drought seems to be a bad argument since timber growing in areas that hold water all season are going as well.
There are some who think that our forest may be "turning over" and reverting to more of a conifer dominated ecosystem. Its hard not to agree in some areas as the white pine are coming up super thick in the understory.
It s pretty scary though, considering almost our entire logging and forestry industry is based around hardwood sawtimber. If it dies over the next 10 or 20 years...
I live in relatively close to Michigan Tech University which has a popular forestry program. Most of the students in this program take summer jobs marking timber or log scaling.
I would be interested in hearing more about your version of the maple disease.
It actually seems to effect most of our hardwoods, just some take longer to show symptoms. Basswood and black ash seem to last a bit longer as does yellow birch. The name I've heard it referred to is maple dieback or top dieback. The first sign of it is small tufts of green moss in the upper portion of the crown. Within a year or two there will be more dead branches with no bark. It will progress downward from the crown over the course of several years, eventually killing the whole tree.
Foresters in my area seem divided over this. Half(or so) seem to think this is a symptom of drought and the timber will recover, the other half is doing targeted clear cuts to try and nip the spread of the dieback. Lack of water/drought seems to be a bad argument since timber growing in areas that hold water all season are going as well.
There are some who think that our forest may be "turning over" and reverting to more of a conifer dominated ecosystem. Its hard not to agree in some areas as the white pine are coming up super thick in the understory.
It s pretty scary though, considering almost our entire logging and forestry industry is based around hardwood sawtimber. If it dies over the next 10 or 20 years...
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treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
red oak been doing something like that here. no one seems to care but me.
1270d
ArboristSite Guru
Some folks don't seem to understand that many loggers care about the forest more than anyone. Its our livelyhood
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
yup, very well said. they think we hate trees, nothing could be further from the truth. what will we log if all the young trees die?
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Miss P- I tell my forester all the time and go over what things are working and what are not for me and we do work together very well. The majority of the foresters I know have a forestry degree from UW-Stevens Point. The painter on that job I was complaining about included. I've talked to other loggers that have cut his jobs and they have said the same thing. The next job I run into of his I will definitely be calling in a pow wow for a day. I thought about it on the last one, but machine break downs had me itching to get out of there asap. I've cut two marked by him and he is a younger guy so I know I will run into more of them in the future. I also like talking to the landowners because I think there is a disconnect if I do not. The forester does his part, but sometimes I can shed more light on the landowners questions than the forester can.
As a forester type, I never consider a question regarding tree stuff "fully answered" without logger input. You folks on this messageboard have filled in many a blank spot over the years for me where local folks were unable to provide the answers I was looking for. I know who my experts are.
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Keen
ArboristSite Operative
A few pics of last week and the new toy. Some pretty nice oaks on this job. Everything thing over 16" dbh goes.
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treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
nice work there Keen. good example on that first stump of what I think the hinge should look like on oak. where are you getting those Windsor bars?
