Chris J.
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, but that doesn't make it a great caliber!:biggrinbounce2:
True, but it's pretty impressive when a 70 year old man can drop a deer with one shot at 100 yards using a lever action .30-.30 with open sights.
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True, but it's pretty impressive when a 70 year old man can drop a deer with one shot at 100 yards using a lever action .30-.30 with open sights.
MacLaren
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, but that doesn't make it a great caliber!
Oh , I'm not so sure Niko. There are better rounds today. I know what your saying.
However, how would one not classify such an old great round thats been as useful, key word being useful as the 30/30 round?
Chris J.
Addicted to ArboristSite
Niko, just think of the 30/30 caliber as the Stihl 029 of bullets.
:biggrinbounce2::hmm3grin2orange:That's because for so many years the guns were so much cheaper that most folks just bought the 30-30. At the end of the day, it has spent more time in the woods, so natrually it has killed more deer.
Nothing wrong with a 30-30, but there's also nothing magical about it. There was a time when I could easily kill a deer at 100 yards with a 44 revolver. 100 yards with a 44 carbine is still a piece of cake.
Now, if you want to get out past 150 yards or so, you need to start thinking about a real rifle. Anything based on a 308 or 30-06 would suffice.
Niko, just think of the 30/30 caliber as the Stihl 029 of bullets.
So you're saying that a 290 is slow, has limited application, and doesn't do a very good job when used at less than ideal conditions? Conditions that most other saws built today could handle day in and day out??? :yoyo:
SawTroll
Information Collector
Niko, just think of the 30/30 caliber as the Stihl 029 of bullets.
That actually is exactly what I did, they both are mediocre designs that became a sales success, mainly due to marketing and price.
:biggrinbounce2:
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bcorradi
Arboristsite.com Sponsor
They also do their intended purpose (put meat in your freezer and wood in your stove) at a fraction of the cost of their counterparts.
MacLaren
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well, a kill is a kill. And I would dare say the best handgun caliber is the .38.
Very,very accurate, and will drop a man as good as a .357 magnum will.
Very,very accurate, and will drop a man as good as a .357 magnum will.
Depends on how you define "counterparts". I'm not up on new saw prices, but I suspect that one could buy an Echo, Makita, or Dolmar for less than the 290 and there wouldn't be a noticable difference in the performance of any of them. Same goes for the 30-30. I can buy a bolt action slug gun for less than the cost of a 30-30 and I'll have somthing that is likely more accurate and hits a LOT harder with the same effective range. I could also buy a 44 carbine that is more accurate, can be shot for less, and still has the same effective range as the 30-30. The difference is that the 30-30 is old technology that was very effective in it's day and can still be a viable option today. As far as I know, the 290 is a late modle saw that only offers marginal benifits at best over it's peers. No doubt, it cuts fine and holds up as well as it's competition. But the only reason that so many people buy it is because it's the cheapest Stihl saw for the power. If that model were being sold by Jred or Echo instead of Stihl, no body would buy it. The 30-30 does not sell because it has "winchester" tagged on the end. People buy the 30-30 because of it's availability, cost, and proven track record.
Just my 2 bits,
Mark
MacLaren
Addicted to ArboristSite
Technology has come a long way since the 30/30 and .38 caliber was presented. I just think its awful nice to have all the options that we do now a days. Ya know, it is a lot like saws, in that personal preference is everything. Heck, they will all get the job done to one degree or the other...
farmerdoug
ArboristSite Operative
2.5 lbs is good just think what 4.5 lbs with the 36" handle
I just did this video the other day with the short handle 2.5 lb version. I am looking forward to the 36" 4.5 lb version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdfzb2EwQho
I just did this video the other day with the short handle 2.5 lb version. I am looking forward to the 36" 4.5 lb version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdfzb2EwQho
Obviously you've not researched this subject very much. That has to be one of the most inaccurate statements I've ever heard or read regarding a firearm of any kind. A .38 is a very low powered round. The projectiles are only 0.001" larger in diameter than a 9mm, and yet they are not nearly as fast. By contrast the 357 is normally around 175 fps faster than a 9mm, and up to 400fps faster than a 38. Lets take 125gr Corbon ammo for example. A 38 is listed at 950 fps which yields a wimpy 250 ft pounds of energy. The same bullet loaded into a 357 case is fired at 1400 fps yielding 543 ft pounds of energy. That's a 47% increase in speed and a 117% increase in Kinetic energy. How in the world would someone come to the conclusion that a .38 is in the same league as a .357 mag, let alone think that a 38 is just as good.
Real world data such as the Edwin Marshal studies, and the Strasbourg tests confirm that the 357 mag is at the top of the list, while the 38 is very near the bottom. I'd rather not get shot by any of them, but I wouldn't waste my money buying a 38 period. In all of my discussions with people who have willfully put themselves in harms way and purposfully ended multiple lives with a sidearm, none of them have much good to say about a 38. In contrast most of them own at least one 357, and at least one 1911.
At the end of the day, a good 38 is a waste of a good gunsmiths time and materials. Add 1/8" to the length of the cylinder and have something that might be worth while.
MacLaren
Addicted to ArboristSite
Obviously you've not researched this subject very much. That has to be one of the most inaccurate statements I've ever heard or read regarding a firearm of any kind. A .38 is a very low powered round. The projectiles are only 0.001" larger in diameter than a 9mm, and yet they are not nearly as fast. By contrast the 357 is normally around 175 fps faster than a 9mm, and up to 400fps faster than a 38. Lets take 125gr Corbon ammo for example. A 38 is listed at 950 fps which yields a wimpy 250 ft pounds of energy. The same bullet loaded into a 357 case is fired at 1400 fps yielding 543 ft pounds of energy. That's a 47% increase in speed and a 117% increase in Kinetic energy. How in the world would someone come to the conclusion that a .38 is in the same league as a .357 mag, let alone think that a 38 is just as good.
Real world data such as the Edwin Marshal studies, and the Strasbourg tests confirm that the 357 mag is at the top of the list, while the 38 is very near the bottom. I'd rather not get shot by any of them, but I wouldn't waste my money buying a 38 period. In all of my discussions with people who have willfully put themselves in harms way and purposfully ended multiple lives with a sidearm, none of them have much good to say about a 38. In contrast most of them own at least one 357, and at least one 1911.
At the end of the day, a good 38 is a waste of a good gunsmiths time and materials. Add 1/8" to the length of the cylinder and have something that might be worth while.
Thats all good and well, but i knows what i knows....gimme a 38 anyday....
actually I dont really think you get what im sayin....the 38 is very economical plentifull and will most certainly get the job done. Especially the +p rounds.
BTW, youve never really shot a lot have you? Because if you have you would know that the recoil off of a dang magnum bullet is fierce! You have much more control with a 38.....how many shooting competitions have you won? Like I said before with so many choices the 38 is like the 30/30 it has fell to the way side but in NO MEANS is it an inferior bullet.....
MacLaren
Addicted to ArboristSite
You know a 38 is not the best bullet per say. what i meant to do was put it in the same classification as the 30/30. ICONIC status, in that it has been use so much and was the bullet for law enforcement for may years. My actual favorite round is a 45 acp. you were right in saying that was an inaccuarte statement. I should have stated it better as to what I meant
I could not find the weights of the heads on the website. I am specifically interested in the X25 and X27.
MacLaren
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have a brand new x25 sittin here let me look at it and ill see if it lists the weight. be right back.....
MacLaren
Addicted to ArboristSite
No weight, but these guys have been in business since 1649!!:chainsawguy:
I've got two of the super splitters and like them. I just picked up a Gransfors Bruk 5.5 pound splitting maul and like it even better. I thought maybe it was due to the extra 1.25 or 1.5 lbs. head on the Gransfors. I was hoping you could get the X25 with a slightly heavier head than 4 or 4.25 lbs. Thanks.
Peteyglad
New Member
And to think I just bought the regular Fiskars SS a few weeks ago. Oh well, still workds wonderfully!
I'm an NRA certified High Master in Service Rifle. I've won the Indian State Service Rifle Championship. I am a range instructer at ProTech firearms acadmy. I shoot thousands of rounds every year. I carry a Kimber 1911 compact loaded with Black Hills 230gr +P, Remington 185gr +P Goldensabers, or Mag Safe Defenders. My farthest kill on a white tail was 185 yards using an Encore hand gun. The shot was taken free hand.
I've heard the "control" argument before. To be sure, you have to be able to hit your target. Having said that, I've trained women who weighted 90 lbs soaking wet how to wield a S&W 629 with ease. Not being able to handle a common handgun caliber weapon because of it's recoil is like saying someone shouldn't use a chainsaw because it's too powerful. I would never recomend that a begineer start out with a 44 mag or with a MS660, BUT a responsible gun owner, or chainsaw owner should develop the proper technique and master the fundamentals related to their equipment. These fundamentals allow the operator to safely and effectivly operate any piece of equipement regardless of size. It's true for firearms and chainsaws alike.
A skilled operator can effectively split most wood with any old axe (while some are admittedly better than others). A skilled operator can cut his firewood with just about any size chainsaw, but he/she normally pickes up the one that's appropriately sized for the wood that he/she will be cutting. A skilled operator can effectively operate everything from a 22 rimfire to a 44 mag.
A 22 rimfire can kill a person, but for obvious reasons it is not the handgun of choise for protection. There are a number of folks who like the 380 and 38 and feel that it is adequate for what they intend to use it for. Power to them. So long as they place the bullets where they need to go, then they stand a good chance. The research that I've done would indicate that speed kills, and a 380/38 just doesn't have enough of it to make my list of tools worth owning. That's all I'm saying.
By the way, you are correct. My 357 mag snub nose does have a lot of recoil, BUT nobody said that I always have to shoot 357 mag ammo out of it. It shoots 38 plinking loads just fine. Makes a great training tool that way.
And for what it's worty, you are right. The 38 special is a classic.
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