Galls on Live Oak

[xtm]

I've browsed all the old threads on this subject - sorry for bringing it up again, but I have a few more questions!

This tree volunteered up in a flower bed and I let it grow because it exhibited unusual vigor - the oak is ~20' tall, ~9" dia. trunk, and emerged from the ground only 5 years ago. When all my other oaks have stopped putting on new growth, this one continues through the hottest part of the summer. I am continually pruning some of the new growth up until dormancy to allow room to walk and park vehicles.

Unfortunately, the tree is only ~21" from a concrete drive. As soon as I see movement of the concrete I'll take it out......but it is such a nice tree, I am considering breaking out my concrete saw and carefully cutting away a semi-circle of concrete to keep it from lifting.

I'm considering this only if the tree is worth saving. There is hardly a limb on this tree that doesn't have galls like this. I know what causes them and most literature says to ignore galls. I'm repeating myself, but this tree seems unusually fast-growing and exhibits good health - unless the excessive galling is a sign of some other unseen problem that needs to be addressed.

Any comments or advice is appreciated.

xtm

 

[treeseer]

Callirhytis

 

[Ed Roland]

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1394727

Suggests chemical control is somewhat effective. I would not spray or inject my trees with these poisons though. Maybe environmental conditions will not favor infection going forward until it encounters your drive and gets removed anyway.

 

[xtm]

Thank you.

I'm not really interested in poisons unless necessary.

Any guess as to why they prefer this particular oak and avoid the dozens of others on my place? I have red oaks (Q. shumardii), pin oaks, and other live oaks - large and small - that only get a few leaf galls each year. The bur oaks never get any. If it were a struggling, stressed tree, it would make more sense, but this tree seems to be growing at a faster rate than any of the other oaks.

xtm

 

[treeseer]

Any guess as to why they prefer this particular oak and avoid the dozens of others on my place?

Nope; they are just funny that way.

About this driveway thing...branches get pruned back when theyu interfere with infrastructure. So can roots.

Think about it.

 

[xtm]

....about this driveway thing...branches get pruned back when they interfere with infrastructure. So can roots.

Think about it.

I will think about it! Do you think I should make the cut right along the edge of the driveway? So far, there aren't any significant root buttresses developing in that direction.

Should root pruning be performed late fall/ early winter? (~Climate Zone 7b)

xtm

 

[treeseer]

Should root pruning be performed late fall/ early winter? (~Climate Zone 7b)

Late summer/early fall is what the research suggests. next month, paw away the mulch and soil and locate the big rooots. follow them out until they branch off away from trouble (preferably down, and well short of the curb). cut them to that lateral.

Just like branches; directional pruning. As long as you are cutting <20% of the roots, this young tree should be fine.

 

[Ed Roland]

Late summer/early fall is what the research suggests. next month, paw away the mulch and soil and locate the big rooots. follow them out until they branch off away from trouble (preferably down, and well short of the curb). cut them to that lateral.

Just like branches; directional pruning. As long as you are cutting <20% of the roots, this young tree should be fine.

For how long, do you reckon, can this tree remain in this location before upheaval? Will this be a large removal/repair for him or his benefactors?

preservation has it's limits. :chainsawguy:

 

[S Mc]

Any guess as to why they prefer this particular oak and avoid the dozens of others on my place? ... but this tree seems to be growing at a faster rate than any of the other oaks.

xtm

The excessive growth you are noticing could be the attractant to the insects which cause galls.

The blanket statement of how much root loss a tree can stand without ill effects has led to some misunderstanding, IMHO. You would be cutting on one side of the tree, possibly two, very close to fairly close to the trunk. These suggestions are generally based on an overall percentage distributed evenly over the entire root system. So I would be cautious as I went about the root pruning, watching for large roots that might also be stabilizing factors as the roots going away from your house are the ones that are going to offer stability to keep the tree from falling TOWARDS your house. I realize this is a small tree, with little likelihood of that happening now. However, with a project like this you want to think long term consequences.

The premise here is that the directional pruning will allow major roots to develop deeper and further away or laterally, parallel to the drive. I was more skeptical of this suggestion until I read in Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants that Quercus virginiana are used extensively as street trees in the South. Which is hard for me to grasp as it follows a statement "not for the small property".

Dirr also states, relative to growth rate, that it will respond to good fertility practices in youth, producing 2 to 2 1/2 ft of growth annually. But does slow down to a moderate growth rate.

My thoughts here: this tree has the capability of getting huge, in width more than in height. As you invest time, energy and dedication to save it it will become harder and harder to remove. Cast your thoughts to the future. Are you willing to redesign your drive and walkway? If you wish to save this tree, that will become inevitable at some point.

And that might be a viable option to consider. If so, is this tree in a position to be maintained and promoted as a focal point in your landscape; taking a position of prominence, making a statement? Or will it always look like an after thought that someone forgot about. A tree of this species could add considerable value to your property and provide tremendous aesthetic quality. But only if it is apropos.

You actually have a bit of time to consider these things, but give them some thought. It may help with the decision.

Sylvia

 

[Dadatwins]

As an advocate for 'right tree-right place' thinking I must respectfully disagree with treeseer on this tree. Direction root pruning will help in the short term, ie:5-10 years but inevietably this tree will be a problem for the driveway. This will probably be occuring at the time the tree has grown to a size and shape that will add value to the property, yet be a liability to the driveway and possibly the house. I agree with SMC do we want to do all the root cutting on the side of the tree that is opposite the house? Live oak given the right environment can grow to be a massive tree. If this tree was 5 feet closer to the house I would feel better about it. Roots will naturally take the path of least resistance to grow and the moisture rich underside of the concrete drive will be a magnet for the roots of this tree. Given the gall problem already shown, and the current size of the tree, I would say start over with a better location. Better to make a decision now, and get another tree started than wait for the inevitable. JMHO

 

[treeseer]

Let's not forget two things:

1. The op said right off he was willing to prune the driveway with his concrete saw. This immediately puts him in a category above the majority of the pavement-worshiping public.

2. I advised pruning to downrights, not random hacking and not enough to seriously cost stability--this is a live oak, low c.o.g. but there are soil and other unknown factors, and longterm the issues will get tougher. :bang:

That said, on second look at teh pic i wonder waht in the world the planting person was thinking. The tree in the other planter looks centrally spaced, but this one got tossed in the corner. Does the owner know more of the history here? Could this tree be a volunteer? Root sucker?

If the gall issue can be solved--any ideas on trunk drench insecticides for Callyrhitis?--perhaps another option is to dig it up with the help of a backhoe and move it. I usually embrace a diversity of organisms with trees, but Callyrhitis is butt-ugly. umpkin2:

 

[xtm]

Thank you all for the input and advice!

This tree was not placed there by a human - most likely, it is a volunteer from a squirrel-planted acorn. All the other live oaks are 150+yards away - behind the house, so it probably isn't a sucker. I didn't pull it out of the bed because it was exhibiting extraordinary vigor and I wanted to see what it would look like at that location. In retrospect, I should've dug it up and moved it to a better location - but volunteer trees seem to thrive best right where they pop up rather than where homeowners would like to have them.

Yes, I might be willing to cut away some concrete if I can convince myself that the tree is worth it. You can't see it in the photo, but I already have some cracking in the adjacent segment of the drive - (not caused by tree roots). If I ever make that concrete repair, it wouldn't be much more trouble to put in a slight curve and move the drive over 5' or so.

BTW, I've lived at this property for 21 years and have no shortage of desirable trees in the landscape - I have some junky trees too. I despise lawn care for the most part and encourage existing trees and volunteers to encroach on any and all grassy areas. In extreme heat and drought, I let the lawn grass die, but keep my precious trees irrigated.

I was all set to start pruning roots until Sylvia alarmed me about future danger to the house from a much larger tree, Prevalent southwesterly winds will add to that potential hazard, too. Maybe a cautious wait of a couple of years - with an eagle eye on the concrete drive - will give me time to figure out exactly what to do?

I'll try to remember to post an update in a year.

xtm

 

[xtm]

Update on this Live Oak

Thought I would give an update on this live oak after the recent record-breaking snowstorm. My area received over a foot of snow and this is what the tree looks like now. I don't believe that I will have to worry about concrete drive damage or have future concern about dropping a main limb on the roof!

From another direction:

Here is a closer photo of one of the breaks. This was a secondary branch that emerged from one of the main bifurcations of the trunk at a gall eruption. Note how the gall weakened that junction and hid the damage:

It appears that live oaks were the hardest hit of all the trees in the area - even more so than the pines! I didn't lose a single branch from the red oaks, pin oaks, bur oaks - or even the willows and cottonwoods! This storm was very unusual in that there was very little wind and the snow really piled up on the leafy live oak limbs.

xtm

 

[treeseer]

Thanks much for the update; sorry for the loss. It could be pruned to restore its shape, but that would be a long process, and you would still have a big tree in a small place.

Live oaks fare poorly with frozen precip here in NC too.

 

[xtm]

I'm not too disappointed. I try to keep an abundance of "extra" trees growing around my property, so there will always be "replacements" when events like this happen. It provides some firewood and changes the landscaping a bit -- but that changes anyway as trees grow and the canopy enlarges.

Can anyone identify the variety of this Live Oak by the leaf form? Could it be a hybrid variety? I'm asking because the severely damaged ones on my place have all taken on a form that has predominantly vertical branches - not the broad horizontal limbs so often associated with southern live oaks. The tall vertical limbs are the ones that broke under the load of the snow - not the horizontal ones. The horizontal ones must have much more tensile strength! Yesterday, I spent some time driving around looking at tree damage, and made this same observation -- the live oaks, large and small, with a predominance of vertical limbs suffered much more damage than the ones with a predominance of horizontal limbs! Seems counter-intuitive because of all the extra weight of the snow on those horizontal limbs...

xtm

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I can't help ID the variety of LO that you have/had but it seems like the usual bad genetics of too many LOs. Since yours grew from a seed I understand, it goes back to it's parentage. Look around your neighborhood, you're likely to see a replication of this terrible structure.

Varieties or seed source are chosen because of other traits than good structure. Good structure seems to come in last with too many nurseries...and not with just LO.

 

[masterarbor]

I'm not sure if this has been said, but that wasp is VERY difficult to control.

BIOLOGY AND MANAGEMENT OF THE HORNED OAK GALL WASP ON PIN OAK by Eilason and Potter published March 2001 in the Journal of Arboriculture is a good reference. Your looks like it might be gouty gall, but same thing basically.

The study can be found online. Good luck!

Kevin

 

[xtm]

Thank you, but I have no more Horned Oak Gall Wasp worries...:greenchainsaw:

xtm

 

[stj5665]

Sounds like mostly good advice so far.

I agree with the right tree, right place philosophy. I see many trees with this type of gall and it does effect limb health and strength. So far I can't find anyone who can recommend a treatment or preventative. I just wanted to mention that here in North Texas we have to take into consideration tip weight and density on live oaks because they don't lose their leaves and can break during freak occurrences of ice and snow. We had a lot of storm damage on live oaks 2 years ago. You would not want to plant this species of tree close to your house either because it's roots are invasive and it will get larger.
Sorry you lost it but probably a blessing. Also according to your photo, I just see a weak bifurcation where it broke.

 

[xtm]

Wow...this one rose from the dead thread graveyard! nearly two years!

Actually....I decided to give this live oak a reprieve from the full chainsaw treatment and performed some strategic pruning instead. :msp_smile: It is situated in an ideal spot to prevent tall FedEx and UPS delivery vans from using my circular drive as a convenient loop-around to change direction. I ordinarily wouldn't mind, but they usually perform the manouver carelessly at speed - sometimes when grandkids are in the front yard. :msp_scared:

I'll take some pics and post 'em to show how it has filled back out.