Green wood and creosote...

[Dalmatian90]

Burned probably 80% green last year.

As in I often was dropping the the week's wood on Saturday. At least 50% of that being red maple, a modest amount of ash, and the rest a mix of oak, box elder, hickory, and a wind fallen white pine.

Cleaned the chimney for the first time today.

About 1-1/2 cups of soot at the cleanout of the metal chimney on the outside of my house. More ash then creosote.

Almost nothing in the chimney. And most of that never made the bucket -- it was drifting away as dust from the bottom as I ran the brush up and down.

Now my stove for the time being is a cheap boxwood stove, which couldn't be less air tight if I hooked up a compressed air line to it. Still lots of times it burned cool for a long time trying to get the green wood going, lots of days I had it dampered down as much as it could just smoldering a few logs away.

BUT...most days it got up to a flue temperature of 600ºF once or twice. That probably helped boil off anything that had condensed in the pipe.

I don't recommend burning green but I can say green wood per se is doesn't cause creosote to build up.


(I do hope this is the last year burning green...I'm trying to get all of this year's wood at least dropped and blocked by December 1st so I can be cutting for next year the rest of the season. Debating whether I should buy a better stove this year if I keep commuting so I'm not home all day to tend it, or wait till I have a better wood supply before I try burning in an airtight stove)

 

[pilot-werx]

It may not be a problem in your stove because most of your heat is going out the chimney, hence no creosote. And if you are going to burn green, the maple and ash are the best to start with.

Now, if you had a new EPA stove like my PE Summit, you would never be able to burn green. Or lets just say, I tried it last year with some maple and it did not work too well... Besides not being able to get up to temp, my insulated liner looked like someone dumped a bucket of tar down it. That was just from a weeks worth of wood....

 

[Dalmatian90]

Maybe differences in the maple, since I've heard that elsewhere...but my maples are by far the worst burning green wood I have. The ash was typical ash

=====
Somewhat unrelated note...I'm painting the stove today and just cleaned it with lacquer thinner...for some reason my head is feeling a little funny

Taking advantage of what may be the last nice warm day to have the doors open while I do this.

 

[jburlingham]

There is something to be said for cheap leaky (air) stoves and chimneys that draft well.

Creosote usually forms as a result of incomplete combustion, and settles into the chimney when the burning temperature is low.

Our drafty cheap stoves let enough air in to burn more complete (not on purpose and allow enough of the heat up the chimney so most of the creosote created leaves before it can cool enough to settle.

I have been force this and last year to use some green too, thankfully I have mixed it with seasoned and have a similar stove. There is a list of wood online that ranks them in order of best to worst if you have to burn green as each wood holds a different amount of water.

 

[ngzcaz]

I have junk rotten wet " swamp pine " as I call it along with other soft woods for this time of the year. The good oaks, maple and the like are for Jan & Feb. What I'm finding out is that the guys that have or modified their OWB's to a mostly full open when drafting and then closing almost completely are better off. In the winter the cycles will be closer together so the chances of it going out for lack of air is almost nil. There always seems to be a little residual draft from somewhere. Too
The problem here in NE Pa all year has been constant damp wet weather. Drying what I have is a real PITA. I live in the woods a bit and surrounded by woods doesnt help the drying process. My ground hasn't been dry all year. Very unusual.

:censored:

 

[barkeatr]

THATS not much creasote...is your chimney warm or cold?

 

[jkupcha]

I'm glad you don't live on my street. Burning that way must put out some kinda smoke!

 

[laynes69]

Chimney fires can leave behind a clean flue. I can almost bet that was the reason for it being so clean. Burning green wood and smoldering it like your talking will plug a flue quick. Its a recipe for disaster.

 

[flotek]

Chimney fires can leave behind a clean flue. I can almost bet that was the reason for it being so clean. Burning green wood and smoldering it like your talking will plug a flue quick. Its a recipe for disaster.

exactly ,also you have lost major potential BTUS by burning that green wood
btus that could have heated your house and or used significantly less wood to do it.dont kid yourself wet wood always causes creosote and the inevitable chimney fire will catch on it over time ,creosote is very flammable stuff and can burn at inner temps over 2,000 degrees its enough to turn the pipe orange and melt single wall pipe ..it will be a matter of when... not if .

 

[Dalmatian90]

I can assure you guys there was no chimney fire.

As others said, the lack of air-tightness on the stove more then anything means there's lot of heat that goes up the chimney. That's a bigger waste of heat then any concerns over green wood -- but at the same time it meant the chimney stayed cleaned as any unburned fuel in the smoke wasn't able to condense out to form creosote.

dont kid yourself wet wood always causes creosote

I'm not kidding myself. I'm making the factual observation that over a years time, in my specific situation, it did not cause any appreciable creosote build up what so ever.

Green wood is tougher to get the fire going, no doubt.

In my situation burning green wood isn't a significant waste of wood though. Looking up the numbers for Red Oak, it takes about 16% more wood burning green then seasoned.

In an inefficient stove like mine, that's not significant. It's the difference between 3 cords and a bit less then 3-1/2 cords over the course of a season.

My stove's efficiency is probably around 40% v. 80% for an EPA stove. If I put in an EPA stove in the future, that will probably drop me down into the 1-1/2 cords/year range. That is a big savings, but not due to the moisture level of the wood, but the design of the stove. The stove design just happens to need seasoned wood to run at full efficiency.

 

[coppermouse]

You might want to get a year ahead on your wood. I burned green one year, and won't do that again. I can guarantee you will have more heat and it will be much easier to get started

 

[woodbooga]

Glad to hear you've had good luck to date.

Still, to me, it sounds like you're playing with fire.

 

[coppermouse]

No pun intended?

Glad to hear you've had good luck to date.

Still, to me, it sounds like you're playing with fire.

 

[flotek]

I'm not kidding myself. I'm making the factual observation that over a years time, in my specific situation, it did not cause any appreciable creosote build up what so ever.

Green wood is tougher to get the fire going, no doubt.

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not trying to be a blowhard but a personal observation on your part does not make it a fact ,the real fact is you are you only get about 60% of your btus with green wood versus seasoned wood thats under 20% inner moisture regardless of stove design ,to me thats significant
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In my situation burning green wood isn't a significant waste of wood though. Looking up the numbers for Red Oak, it takes about 16% more wood burning green then seasoned.

 

[Booshcat]

I can assure you guys there was no chimney fire.

My stove's efficiency is probably around 40% v. 80% for an EPA stove. If I put in an EPA stove in the future, that will probably drop me down into the 1-1/2 cords/year range. That is a big savings, but not due to the moisture level of the wood, but the design of the stove. The stove design just happens to need seasoned wood to run at full efficiency.

You'll find that in an EPA stove, the design just plain wont work without seasoned wood.

 

[Dalmatian90]

the real fact is you are you only get about 60% of your btus with green wood versus seasoned wood thats under 20% inner moisture

That's incorrect.

The math is this, using the numbers from the Nebraska extension service:

1 Cord Red Oak, Green = 4,888#
1 Cord Red Oak, Seasoned = 3,528#
1 Cord Red Oak = 24.6 Million BTUs.

One BTU raises 1 pound of water 1 degree Fahrenheit. It takes 970 BTUs to convert water at 212º to steam. Assuming we start at room temperature of 65º it takes 1,117 BTUs to boil off each pound of water.

With a 1,360# difference between green and seasoned, that's 1.5 Million BTUs that will be needed to remove the excess moisture.

1.5 Million is 16.4% of the 24.6 Million BTUs present in a cord of red oak.

100% - 16.4% = 83.6%, not the 60% you claim.

The big advantage to seasoned wood is the ability to burn it safely in higher efficiency stoves, because that's were you rack up the savings.

My boxwood stove runs somewhere around 40% efficiency (and that's probably a high estimate).

That'll deliver 9.8 Million BTUs from a cord of seasoned red oak, or 8.2M from green.

A modern EPA stove is going to be up around 80% efficient, so that's 19.7 Million BTUs delivered from the same cord.

For me burning green, the 1.5M BTUs lost to moisture is small compared to 10M going up the stack as either heat or unburnt fuel.

I'll have a year's supply of seasoned wood by next fall as I'm well ahead of where I was last year already.

I remain, however, pleasantly surprised by just how well my combination of stove and insulated metal chimney handled the green wood without any appreciable creosote formation.

 

[flotek]

sounds great on paper but does the Nebraska extension service know how much moisture is in your actual wood ? do you even accurately know? are we to believe all oak has these weight measurements in a 4x4x8 stack ?temperature to heat steam is not nearly the only problem .water doesnt burn ...seems theres nothing scientific about your findings ,what is green ? what is seasoned ? what moisture does al lthsi equate to ?when was this test wood cut ? not all wood releases its btus and volatile compounds the same way ,also some hold twice the moisture as others do .. and also "seasoned wood" is a very subjective term. watch this short video and educate yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC67gBhWu0Y
more info can be found about this matter by
reading this short link
http://www.mastersweep.com/OPT.HTM

 

[myzamboni]

I can assure you guys there was no chimney fire.

As others said, the lack of air-tightness on the stove more then anything means there's lot of heat that goes up the chimney. That's a bigger waste of heat then any concerns over green wood -- but at the same time it meant the chimney stayed cleaned as any unburned fuel in the smoke wasn't able to condense out to form creosote.



I'm not kidding myself. I'm making the factual observation that over a years time, in my specific situation, it did not cause any appreciable creosote build up what so ever.

Green wood is tougher to get the fire going, no doubt.

In my situation burning green wood isn't a significant waste of wood though. Looking up the numbers for Red Oak, it takes about 16% more wood burning green then seasoned.

In an inefficient stove like mine, that's not significant. It's the difference between 3 cords and a bit less then 3-1/2 cords over the course of a season.

My stove's efficiency is probably around 40% v. 80% for an EPA stove. If I put in an EPA stove in the future, that will probably drop me down into the 1-1/2 cords/year range. That is a big savings, but not due to the moisture level of the wood, but the design of the stove. The stove design just happens to need seasoned wood to run at full efficiency.

Great! Knock yourself out having your hard earned heat go up your chimney. Also, don't come here expecting any sympathy when the chimney fire (or worse) happens. And it will happen.

 

[xtm]

Joking about a chimney fire is like joking about hemorrhoids - funny as all heck until you get one!

When I was a kid, I remember my grandad starting a surprise chimney fire with a too-large and too hot batch of pine kindling! The roar! Fire spewing out the top of the chimney like a Roman candle! The air full of burning sparks! Unforgettable! Luckily it burned itself out quickly and didn't do much damage.

From what I remember about it, a big roaring chimney fire is just as likely to burn down your neighbors' houses as it is your own - so be prepared to have enough liability insurance to cover their property, too.

Anytime I burn a large amount of unseasoned wood in my stove, I get some creosote buildup - and any amount spooks the heck outta me...

xtm

 

[bore_pig]

Over the last 2 years, I have burned my fair share of wood that wasn't quite ready. Some of it wasn't even close. However, I burn my stove VERY hot for at least 2 hours a day all winter. Then the rest of the time it's probably set at about 3/4 throttle. After the aforementioned 2 years, I would not have been able to fill a coffee can with creosote. It is true that I lose heat through my chimney. I don't complain about using too much wood. So what's it matter? A clean chimney after burning wet wood does not mean there was a chimney fire.