Greenhorn Climber Wanna-be

[littlejoetqt]

Hey, I'm dabbling in the realm of climbing trees, and would like some idiot advice. I cut them from ground level, but I work with some ex-pennline and ex-asplundh climbers, and on occasion we get a job that requires climbing. So I watched these guys, and eventually my card was up. I was carefully instructed, and sent up a hickory tree to tie a rope in it(to come-along the tree away from power lines). All was well, and I've decided I'd like to do some more of it. James' saddle is too large for me, so I've acquired one of my own. It's a buckingham, if anyone wants to know. I have a set of tree spikes, which were given to me by a friend. They are in very good condition, but are an older style with leather pads. I have to buy a flipline, climbing rope, and eventually a pulling rope and come-along before I can really do anything. It'll be a slow acquisition...probably going to have to buy a new work saw this winter.

However, this is my question. These boys climb without any sort of descending device(I.E: Figure-8), they use a knot they call a climbing knot...I couldn't describe it but I can tie it. Is this acceptable, or is it a cowboy-killer that I need to avoid? Also, They use a buckstrap instead of the fliplines I've looked at on wesspur.com. I'm content with that, is there a reason I shouldn't be?

thanks in advance for the advice, if there's anything else gear-wise that I need to look at, let me know. Keep in mind I don't have plans of making this a business, just occasionally when I need to at work, and should the need arise at home.

 

[Tree Pig]

Climbing on a friction hitch (climbing knot?) is the norm as long as they are tying a proper hitch. I as many here will, suggest you learn as much as you can from them ( as long as they know what they are doing). Live experience from someone who can tell you when your about to screw up beats learning the hard way... Plus its much safer. Here is a link to something that could help expand your knowledge a little but it is no substitute for real instruction.

climbing guide

 

[troythetreeman]

im a minimalist in the tree, i dont like anything i cant do one handed, including the knots i choose
a lanyard with a cable core and a micro tender are awesome, i didnt like the cable core at first as it hangs a lot different but im finding i prefer it as it is far less likely to tangle in things, i cut a few tails when id pull my saw up and start it without looking...
the best advise i can give you is safety first, there are many techniques, develop your own
stay focused, youre in a tree with a chainsaw

 

[DangerTree]

Hey, I'm dabbling in the realm of climbing trees, and would like some idiot advice. I cut them from ground level, but I work with some ex-pennline and ex-asplundh climbers, and on occasion we get a job that requires climbing. So I watched these guys, and eventually my card was up. I was carefully instructed, and sent up a hickory tree to tie a rope in it(to come-along the tree away from power lines). All was well, and I've decided I'd like to do some more of it. James' saddle is too large for me, so I've acquired one of my own. It's a buckingham, if anyone wants to know. I have a set of tree spikes, which were given to me by a friend. They are in very good condition, but are an older style with leather pads. I have to buy a flipline, climbing rope, and eventually a pulling rope and come-along before I can really do anything. It'll be a slow acquisition...probably going to have to buy a new work saw this winter.

However, this is my question. These boys climb without any sort of descending device(I.E: Figure-8), they use a knot they call a climbing knot...I couldn't describe it but I can tie it. Is this acceptable, or is it a cowboy-killer that I need to avoid? Also, They use a buckstrap instead of the fliplines I've looked at on wesspur.com. I'm content with that, is there a reason I shouldn't be?

thanks in advance for the advice, if there's anything else gear-wise that I need to look at, let me know. Keep in mind I don't have plans of making this a business, just occasionally when I need to at work, and should the need arise at home.

I always have a rescue 8 and a 5/8 pulley with locking biner on my waist and at least 2 tubular webbing slings with lockers. You can do a lot of work with the right gear on hand. Do use a wire core flip line unless you are playing around power lines better safe than dead. Take a regular rope or leather strap and put a tad of tension on it and wick it with a chainsaw wound right up and see what happens! Can you say SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!

 

[littlejoetqt]

Thanks everyone for the input, especially the link to the pamphlet. This is going to be a slow acquisition, I don't really have the money to get everything at once. I recieved my saddle today, it's one of the buckingham economy saddles with the wide back. I got it used, but I gave it a very thorough inspection, and I can't find a single sign of wear or damage in the material. A friend acquired it from someone who owed him money. It's relatively comfortable, as compared to the two saddles I've tried on. I had choice between that and another, somewhat fancier saddle(no brand markings), but there's some fraying and that's nothing I want to trust my life with.

I thought about the buckstrap vs the steel-core flipline, and that's an excellent point(about the line and the saw). The boys I work around spent their lives trimming power lines, hence the non-conductive buckstrap. I don't plan on getting close to any electric lines bigger than a house service drop, so it would be worth it to invest in the steel-core flipline.

Again, thanks for the info, I'm going to look into how to use one of those figure-8's, and probably pick one up once I get my basic stuff purchased. The climbing line and flipline are going to wait until I can afford new, not taking any chances. I once saw a guy stick a climb line in a rope come-along...he was convinced he'd never hurt it but he's crazy. You can see it in the rope where it stretched severely, it's garbage now.

 

[DangerTree]

Thanks everyone for the input, especially the link to the pamphlet. This is going to be a slow acquisition, I don't really have the money to get everything at once. I recieved my saddle today, it's one of the buckingham economy saddles with the wide back. I got it used, but I gave it a very thorough inspection, and I can't find a single sign of wear or damage in the material. A friend acquired it from someone who owed him money. It's relatively comfortable, as compared to the two saddles I've tried on. I had choice between that and another, somewhat fancier saddle(no brand markings), but there's some fraying and that's nothing I want to trust my life with.

I thought about the buckstrap vs the steel-core flipline, and that's an excellent point(about the line and the saw). The boys I work around spent their lives trimming power lines, hence the non-conductive buckstrap. I don't plan on getting close to any electric lines bigger than a house service drop, so it would be worth it to invest in the steel-core flipline.

Again, thanks for the info, I'm going to look into how to use one of those figure-8's, and probably pick one up once I get my basic stuff purchased. The climbing line and flipline are going to wait until I can afford new, not taking any chances. I once saw a guy stick a climb line in a rope come-along...he was convinced he'd never hurt it but he's crazy. You can see it in the rope where it stretched severely, it's garbage now.

Figure 8's are OK but you would be better off with a Rescue 8. Do some product research before you buy stuff. Spending 8 bucks rather than 10 on a much better tool is a bad investment.

 

[littlejoetqt]

Thanks, Dangertree. That's exactly why I'm asking these questions, because I don't quite know what I'm looking at. The boys I work with climb with minimal equipment...a saddle, buckstrap, gaffs, climbing line, and if necessary, a 3-braid rope for pulling trees. We are usually able to come-along trees where we need them, though we do have guys who can trim. Ground damage is seldom an issue for us, just sometimes the tree doesn't agree with our desired landing zone(away from the power lines). I know there are things that can make life easier for me, and I'd rather spend a little money to make it easier or safer than to run on the bare minimum.

BTW, The 'Climbing Knot' my coworkers refer to is a tautline hitch. This took me 2 days of searching knots on the 'net to find, but now I know .

 

[troythetreeman]

Thanks, Dangertree. That's exactly why I'm asking these questions, because I don't quite know what I'm looking at. The boys I work with climb with minimal equipment...a saddle, buckstrap, gaffs, climbing line, and if necessary, a 3-braid rope for pulling trees. We are usually able to come-along trees where we need them, though we do have guys who can trim. Ground damage is seldom an issue for us, just sometimes the tree doesn't agree with our desired landing zone(away from the power lines). I know there are things that can make life easier for me, and I'd rather spend a little money to make it easier or safer than to run on the bare minimum.

BTW, The 'Climbing Knot' my coworkers refer to is a tautline hitch. This took me 2 days of searching knots on the 'net to find, but now I know .

you plan on climbing exclusively with spikes or you gunna do spikeless trimming as well?
boots are huge, and youll want 2 pair, one for wearing with your spikes and the other for footlocking

tautline is the one i use and as far as gadgets to make life easier, i take far less into the tree then i used to, less is more imo, its good to know how to use different tools and have them, like pulley systems and portawraps, but more often then not i dont use them as i can get the job done faster, easier, and safer without them
usually

 

[littlejoetqt]

troy,

I am going to get comfortable with spikes, then look into rope climbing. I have several friends experienced climbing with spikes that can help me learn, not so much rope climbing. A coworker worked 7 years trimming power lines with a company that climbed without spikes. He has the knowledge to teach me a lot about climbing, but he's hesitant to do so. He didn't like it, and he's also my boss, and he's afraid I'm going to go to work climbing full-time(with another company). He offered me the saddle I now own, but he was extremely hesitant to do it, though he knew I was interested in learning, and had no use for it himself.

I would like to learn to climb with a rope, I have a tree on my property(at the end of my driveway where I park my truck) that has a very dead limb in it. It's a red maple, healthy otherwise but the limb is a danger to my truck. I'm afraid to spike it, I don't want to kill the tree. If I owned the property, I would remove the tree altogether. It would be a straight notch and drop with a wedge, no big deal. If I had the knowledge, skill and equipment to rope up the tree, I could drop the limb no problem.

I know it's a no-no, but I have seen trees on the edge of power lines with spike marks in them. Any time I have seen them, they have healed up just fine. why is it that it's not advised to spike up a tree unless you're removing it? J/W, not trying to start a feud.

Regarding the boots, I wear Georgia Steel-toe Loggers at work. They fit my spikes very well, I double-wrap my lower straps and they don't stand a chance to slip. I may be missing something in the boot department, but I don't really understand what I have to gain by changing.

 

[troythetreeman]

troy,

I am going to get comfortable with spikes, then look into rope climbing. I have several friends experienced climbing with spikes that can help me learn, not so much rope climbing. A coworker worked 7 years trimming power lines with a company that climbed without spikes. He has the knowledge to teach me a lot about climbing, but he's hesitant to do so. He didn't like it, and he's also my boss, and he's afraid I'm going to go to work climbing full-time(with another company). He offered me the saddle I now own, but he was extremely hesitant to do it, though he knew I was interested in learning, and had no use for it himself.

I would like to learn to climb with a rope, I have a tree on my property(at the end of my driveway where I park my truck) that has a very dead limb in it. It's a red maple, healthy otherwise but the limb is a danger to my truck. I'm afraid to spike it, I don't want to kill the tree. If I owned the property, I would remove the tree altogether. It would be a straight notch and drop with a wedge, no big deal. If I had the knowledge, skill and equipment to rope up the tree, I could drop the limb no problem.

I know it's a no-no, but I have seen trees on the edge of power lines with spike marks in them. Any time I have seen them, they have healed up just fine. why is it that it's not advised to spike up a tree unless you're removing it? J/W, not trying to start a feud.

Regarding the boots, I wear Georgia Steel-toe Loggers at work. They fit my spikes very well, I double-wrap my lower straps and they don't stand a chance to slip. I may be missing something in the boot department, but I don't really understand what I have to gain by changing.

ive been spiking trees for 15 years, been in several of them numerous times
keep them very sharp and walk, dont stomp
a lot of guys spike trees and do a lot of damage
ive never killed a tree
ive seen some of the work done by other companies that do spikeless climb, most of it isnt impressive, they make a lot of bad cuts, and the cut is the most important thing

 

[kdslocum]

ive been spiking trees for 15 years, been in several of them numerous times
keep them very sharp and walk, dont stomp
a lot of guys spike trees and do a lot of damage
ive never killed a tree
ive seen some of the work done by other companies that do spikeless climb, most of it isnt impressive, they make a lot of bad cuts, and the cut is the most important thing

people who prune trees with spikes do not what the are doing or how to climb properly. Being able to climb without spikes makes you a much better climber. there are alot of companies nowadays that dont need to be certified to do tree work. those companies are the ones with guys who spike up a perfectly live tree to deadwood it or maintenance prune it which is stupid but they do it because its easy. You learn how to climb without spikes first and you'll be a heck of alot better climber than if you learn on spikes.

 

[CNBTreeTrimming]

Spikes suck. They have their place but your freedom of movement is much better on rope.

 

[kdslocum]

Spikes suck. They have their place but your freedom of movement is much better on rope.

:agree2:

 

[troythetreeman]

climbing without spikes is better for the trees, _if_ you make proper cuts, which most of the spikeless climbers ive seen, dont do
it also takes longer, one of my best friends is a spikeless climber, hes worked for 2 of the most reputable tree companies in minnesota, making less then i do, without full benefits or drive time, which i get
the company i work for has an A+ bbb rating and an A rating on angies list
my friend went under trying to go on his own, he couldnt sell spikeless, which is too bad, he is really very good at what he does
i dont run my own show because i like having a life, been there, done that, 80 hour weeks, dealing with customers, smiling no matter what kind of mood im in, my liability no matter who wrecked what how, maintenance, employees, paperwork...
no thank you, i want to climb and go home
i wouldnt mind seeing it sway the other way, would eliminate the fly by night hacks
im not opposed to learning spikeless, but i have loyal customers for for years, i can see with my own eyes what trees look like after i work on them, how they heal and how they grow
i also get a ot of opportunity to see what other peoples work looks like years later
i do nice work and i take a lot of pride in it

 

[kdslocum]

Pruning with spikes whther you make proper cuts makes no sense ur still damaging the tree so spikes still suck. You aren't a good climber if you use spikes to prune. :msp_wink:

 

[troythetreeman]

Pruning with spikes whther you make proper cuts makes no sense ur still damaging the tree so spikes still suck. You aren't a good climber if you use spikes to prune. :msp_wink:

are those spikes on your legs in your profile picture?
tree work since 2006?
ive been doing this since 1996
ive been in some of the same trees 4 or even 5 times
i have customers who will never hire companies like rainbow or davey again, and its not because i work cheaper
youre in a tree with a saw cutting live limbs
if youre using them right spikes do not hurt a tree
most guys lack the trust in them not to hammer them in
most guys dont keep them sharp and tear large sections of bark off and leave huge holes every step
"spikes kill trees" is propaganda, thats like saying guns kill people

 

[kdslocum]

Using spikes cuz I'm doin a removal genius. Okay pull rank

 

[treeclimber101]

Oh boy the old spiking tree prunes , you better hope that the masses don't read this thread troy they will be on ya real bad for that , and I don't care if you spike a tree or not , but now in my mind I know that I am a much better climber than you , maybe not as fast but better for leaving the spikes in the trailer , and all this #### about handling a saw and proper cuts is all a bit of an excuse , just saying and I will end it with that .. I don't wanna argue

 

[chad556]

if youre using them right spikes do not hurt a tree
most guys lack the trust in them not to hammer them in
most guys dont keep them sharp and tear large sections of bark off and leave huge holes every step
"spikes kill trees" is propaganda, thats like saying guns kill people

Spikes ALWAYS hurt a tree. Most of the time its not enough to cause death, but it is most definitely causes stress. It doesn't matter how sharp or dull they are, if you use them to support your weight you are going to cause serious damage.

I don't know what your talking about propaganda unless you consider the work of Dr. Alex Shigo "propaganda". Come on, Spikes CAN kill trees, Guns CAN kill people. Its all about correct usage, don't point your gun at a living person and don't stick your gaff in a living tree (unless you plan to kill said tree or said person).

Seriously? You actually call yourself an arborist? You can use spikes without penetrating the cambium layer and opening it up to pathogens, insects and decay? That I have to see. And you reconcile all this BS by saying that your customers, who are on average completely ignorant at best in all things concerning arboriculture, are happy with your service? Just because you have a high Angies list rating that makes it ok to sell hack work to customers that don't know any better? You sound exactly like AA.

Anyways to the OP: Do yourself a favor and learn how to climb a rope well. I would recommend trying out a splittail system. It allows you to recrotch your climbing line without untying your whole system and keeps the end of your rope from wearing out prematurely (when a split tail wears out simply replace it). Play around with a blakes hitch also, its just like the tautline except it stays together better. Better yet, get an eye to eye split tail and a micro pulley and try out the distel, knut, schwabisch, and VT and XT hitches. These are the nicest in my opinion because they self tend and are nice and compact. That maple tree you park under sounds perfect for practicing on (without spikes, of course). Start off low and slow, get really good at moving all around the canopy and recrotching your lines and such, then if you feel up to it see if you can get that dead limb out of there before it goes through your windshield. Best of luck, stay safe.

 

[kdslocum]

are those spikes on your legs in your profile picture?
tree work since 2006?
ive been doing this since 1996
ive been in some of the same trees 4 or even 5 times
i have customers who will never hire companies like rainbow or davey again, and its not because i work cheaper
youre in a tree with a saw cutting live limbs
if youre using them right spikes do not hurt a tree
most guys lack the trust in them not to hammer them in
most guys dont keep them sharp and tear large sections of bark off and leave huge holes every step
"spikes kill trees" is propaganda, thats like saying guns kill people

are those spikes on your legs in your profile picture?
tree work since 2006? YES
ive been doing this since 1996: WANT A MEDAL
4 0r 5 times: COULDNT GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME EH?
i have customers who will never hire companies like rainbow or davey again, and its not because i work cheaper: YEAH IT IS BUT CHEAPER DOESNT MEAN BETTER
youre in a tree with a saw cutting live limbs: GOOD OBSERVATION
if youre using them right spikes do not hurt a tree: FRAGMENT CONSIDER REVISING
most guys lack the trust in them not to hammer them in
most guys dont keep them sharp and tear large sections of bark off and leave huge holes every step: MAYBE YOU SHOULD JOIN TCIA AND TEACH A CLASS ON PROPER SPIKING TECHNIQUES
"spikes kill trees" is propaganda, thats like saying guns kill people: DUMBEST STATEMENT EVER SPIKES DO KILL TREES AND GUNS DO KILL PEOPLE. IF YOU HANDLE A GUN LIKE YOU HANDLE TREES THAN YOU WILL END UP KILLING SOMEONE. IM A MEMBER OF THE NRA AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH GUN SAFETY:msp_thumbsup: