Hand filing - Matching Brand Files To Brand Chain

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Gents,

I have only sharpened 5-6 chains - 2 are Oregon and 3 Stihl. They are all old chains I’m fixing up, but I can clearly tell the difference between filing Stihl chain and Oregan.

I’m using Stihl files and they cut the Stihl chain beautifully, but they don’t seem to do as good of a job on the Oregon chain. It cuts slower and doesn’t feel as smooth.

Is this something you have experienced? Could it be something to do with matching the hardness of the stihl file to the hardness of the stihl chain?

On one Oregon chain, I completely used up a Stihl file. It was a lot of work to remove damage, reshape and put in a gullet, but I had expected more?

My other thought is that maybe someone before me has used a grinder and affected the temper.

My take away - Stihl chain is easier to file and much easier to form a nice C shape hook.

If anyone can fill in the gaps and what could be some possibly causes, I’d really appreciate it. Worth noting the files are all new.

In fact I need to rest up on practising, my finger and thumb on my right hand are blistered and my left forearm now has tennis elbow.

Thanks chaps.

 

[deye223]

Oregon chain is usually softer than stihl in my experience.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Oregon chain is usually softer than stihl in my experience.

I have heard others say this too. Hmm

 

[Bret4207]

A good file is a good file. A good file will file harder material better than a poor file. A file with a coaser cut will remove more metal faster, but the feel and finish will be rougher. I believe what you are experiencing is the difference in alloy, heat treatment and wear between chain. I also doubt you are cleaning your files, are you? I mean more than just wiping it off on a rag. Are you using a file card to clean the file at all? It can help, as can some light lube. As you use the file the gullets fill with steel, grit, oil, dirt, etc and the edges become duller to an extent. Cleaning the file helps there. I've never seen an Oregon I can recall that was harder than Stihl, but the more you have to remove to form the shape you want, the more need there is to clean the file. Once a file is gummed up and the gullets filled it won't cut very well at all. If you are using a smooth cut file they are harder to clean than a coarser cut file. No file is as easy to clean as a larger file, but it's worth the effort.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

A good file is a good file. A good file will file harder material better than a poor file. A file with a coaser cut will remove more metal faster, but the feel and finish will be rougher. I believe what you are experiencing is the difference in alloy, heat treatment and wear between chain. I also doubt you are cleaning your files, are you? I mean more than just wiping it off on a rag. Are you using a file card to clean the file at all? It can help, as can some light lube. As you use the file the gullets fill with steel, grit, oil, dirt, etc and the edges become duller to an extent. Cleaning the file helps there. I've never seen an Oregon I can recall that was harder than Stihl, but the more you have to remove to form the shape you want, the more need there is to clean the file. Once a file is gummed up and the gullets filled it won't cut very well at all. If you are using a smooth cut file they are harder to clean than a coarser cut file. No file is as easy to clean as a larger file, but it's worth the effort.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I haven’t cleaned the file other than tapping it gently occasionally, but if Oregon really is softer, it will load the file and make it cut much slower which also makes sense. A great point - I’ll make more effort to clean it out with a brush.

 

[ericm979]

Get a file card. They're wire brushes specifically made for cleaning out files. They don't cost much and they work a lot better than anything else.

Stihl calls for a 13/64 file for their 3/8 chain while other 3/8 chain uses a 7/32. Many people use 7/32 on Stihl chain.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Gone back to the Oregon chain again, without question it’s harder to file.

Yes, the 3/8” chain from Oregon calls for .404.

I’ll grab a file card for sure, thanks!

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

While on the topic, I’m fixing a stihl chain as we speak, but the previous owner, because the chain wasn’t cutting, I presume figured to just lower the rakers rather than actually sharpen the chain.





My question - does the highest part of the raker need to be the area closest to the tooth?

He has filed some rakers at an angle downwards meaning that the highest spot is, on some teeth, not closest to the tooth.

Should I remove more tooth and waste lots to get the highest part of the raker closest to the tooth, or is it ok just to lower them and have the highest part of the raker further away from the tooth.

Here is a tooth I’m nearly finished with, just need go a bit more to get the top plate, but the raker is still way too low so either way in this case I’m going to have to keep going...

 

[Westboastfaller]

My question - does the highest part of the raker need to be the area closest to the tooth?

Yes you want a profile at the front that won't stick into the wood as it goes into "attack mode" .
You want a forward ramp much like the progressive plate will give you.
The ramp will stop the chain from chattering in the wood which can happen as the raker gets low and the surface increases

Just because you are round filing, I hope you aren't abandoning progressive gagues?

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Yes you want a profile at the front that won't stick into the wood as it goes into "attack mode" .
You want a forward ramp much like the progressive plate will give you.
The ramp will stop the chain from chattering in the wood which can happen as the raker gets low and the surface increases

Just because you are round filing, I hope you aren't abandoning progressive gagues?

Thanks mate, just what I thought. No no, I love my Stihl progressive raker guides. I wouldn’t be without them.

 

[stihl86]

Gone back to the Oregon chain again, without question it’s harder to file.

Yes, the 3/8” chain from Oregon calls for .404.

I’ll grab a file card for sure, thanks!

But sharpened correctly, the stihl will stay sharper longer.
Can you get Pherd files?

 

[Westboastfaller]

Gone back to the Oregon chain again, without question it’s harder to file.

Yes, the 3/8” chain from Oregon calls for .404.

I’ll grab a file card for sure, thanks!

I never liked the fine grade Stihl files.
They are mainly the ones the shops seem to stock.

I prefer Oregon chain in a wet rainy environment with Oregon files. They are a fair bit more aggressive on either chain but Stihl chain is a chore if you have heavy rain.
About the three worst things you can do to shorten the files life whilst in use is filing in the rain, not cleaning out the frills/or flattening the frills by back filing or tapping.
If you tap then tap the tip only.
I clean it out ever 3-4 strokes by rolling it as I back file over my glove hand. Just don't wipe your eyes with the back of your glove.
It's a fast thing.


Chains can get what I call a crust on the rakers & cutters. Sometimes it can come that way (over hardened)May just be one tooth or one raker and the file may have the tendency to slide by without penetrating the metals to start with.
The longer you can go without filling then the more likely they will start to harden more on the outside. It's likely a combination of heat changing and maybe a polishing from the chips/snow. I notice it can happen often when cutting below snow. If someone has to file frequently then it's not likely going to harden up.

You may be dealing with some of that too
If those chains have been sitting for some time?

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Bugger- now I am going to have to go buy 15 different branded files of the same size to file the 15 different brands of chain I have!
And some of the brands of chain I have never had paired file making companies- what then?
Just as well the majority of the chains I have are all the same colour, if I had to colour AND brand match- well that would just do my head in.

 

[Woodslasher]

Gents,

I have only sharpened 5-6 chains - 2 are Oregon and 3 Stihl. They are all old chains I’m fixing up, but I can clearly tell the difference between filing Stihl chain and Oregon.

I’m using Stihl files and they cut the Stihl chain beautifully, but they don’t seem to do as good of a job on the Oregon chain. It cuts slower and doesn’t feel as smooth.

Is this something you have experienced? Could it be something to do with matching the hardness of the stihl file to the hardness of the stihl chain?

I'm in the process of sharpening 8 gallons of chain, by hand, and frankly I haven't really noticed a difference in the chain/file brands. Currently I'm using an Oregon-branded file and it handles Stihl and Oregon chain equally. I wire-brush the file after I finish filing each tooth and I haven't had any issues with it.

 

[Philbert]

My other thought is that maybe someone before me has used a grinder and affected the temper.

If the chains were ‘grinder hardened’, you probably would not be able to file them at all. But you could normally grind through that layer and return to its normal state.

Metal is funny. There is an art and a science to it, and you may just have some “funky“ Oregon chains.

My question - does the highest part of the raker need to be the area closest to the tooth?

Generally, yes: they are really ‘depth gauges’ and the highest point touching the wood determines the thickness of the chip.

But if there is a sharp transition point, and that hits the wood, it can dig in and really ‘drag’ (another slang term for depth gauge). After adjusting the height you want to round it over to match the OEM profile.

Philbert

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I never liked the fine grade Stihl files.
They are mainly the ones the shops seem to stock.

I prefer Oregon chain in a wet rainy environment with Oregon files. They are a fair bit more aggressive on either chain but Stihl chain is a chore if you have heavy rain.
About the three worst things you can do to shorten the files life whilst in use is filing in the rain, not cleaning out the frills/or flattening the frills by back filing or tapping.
If you tap then tap the tip only.
I clean it out ever 3-4 strokes by rolling it as I back file over my glove hand. Just don't wipe your eyes with the back of your glove.
It's a fast thing.


Chains can get what I call a crust on the rakers & cutters. Sometimes it can come that way (over hardened)May just be one tooth or one raker and the file may have the tendency to slide by without penetrating the metals to start with.
The longer you can go without filling then the more likely they will start to harden more on the outside. It's likely a combination of heat changing and maybe a polishing from the chips/snow. I notice it can happen often when cutting below snow. If someone has to file frequently then it's not likely going to harden up.

You may be dealing with some of that too
If those chains have been sitting for some time?

Thanks again mate, it’s much appreciated. I do very lightly touch the file on the return stroke occasionally, but not with any pressure. I’m in a rhythm which seems to help.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Bugger- now I am going to have to go buy 15 different branded files of the same size to file the 15 different brands of chain I have!
And some of the brands of chain I have never had paired file making companies- what then?
Just as well the majority of the chains I have are all the same colour, if I had to colour AND brand match- well that would just do my head in.

Merry Christmas Bob!

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

But sharpened correctly, the stihl will stay sharper longer.
Can you get Pherd files?

Hey mate, I’m sure I can, yes. I have only used Stihl so far though. Are they your preference ?

 

[sean donato]

I like save edge files, but for some reason they arw a bugger to get right now, (likely due to covid) Pferd is my second choice for files. They are (both brands) very good files, last a long time and cut very well. Makes filing stihl chain rather easy.

 

[stihl86]

Hey mate, I’m sure I can, yes. I have only used Stihl so far though. Are they your preference ?

They were. The Stihl files weren’t that good. Stihl changed vendors and my Pferd supplier raised prices too high.
It was just a suggestion to try on the harder Stihl chain. Stihl may be Pherd now, idk.
They (stihl) are vastly improved from the joke they were.
But looking at those pictures, if that guy would stop cutting concrete, he might get better chain life