How big of a bar can it pull?

[pdqdl]

Your Husky example is interesting. The 455 comes in at 24"x.375" while the Husky 450 is only rated at 20"x.325"

A .325 chain has more cutters than .375, therefore it will need a shorter bar for the same cutting load on a similar engine.

In general, the .325 equipped saws are considered more "professional" quality, and there is a lot to be said for having a shorter bar on a saw that might be used in a trimming situation.

I agree with your comments regarding bar length and the marketing department. Stihl seems to be the leader in the department of inventing new chain configurations like the .325 pitch chain. Myself, I never saw any advantage of .325 pitch over .375 except that no one but Stihl was using it at first.

Then they graduated to .063 gauge, just to force all their users to keep coming back to the dealer for replacement chains.

 

[pdqdl]

The people who engineer the saw powerhead know how much horsepower and torque and horsepower a stock, modified (new engine) will output and they calculate how long a bar can be and the optimum chain length and cutter profile that works best with the powerhead and that is what they recommend, plain simple.

Not quite so much as you might think. The engineers are also building to protect their warranty. As we all know, its a lot easier to burn up a saw with a bar that is overworking the engine. What you can do isn't necessarily what will keep warranty claims at a minimum.

The marketing department definitely has a hand in what size bar gets put on the saw. I got a tale on that very topic: My brother-in-law was very proud of his new Craftsman saw with a 24" bar. We were planning a tiny little project in the woods, and he assured me that his new saw would outperform my Shindaiwa 488 with the 18" bar. I said little, but suggested we wait and see. I assured him that bar length doesn't have much to do with the effectiveness of the power-head; that the marketing department is fooling the consumers into thinking you buy chainsaws according to the bar length they are sold with.

At the end of the day, he no longer scorned my little 488, and decided to return the Craftsman and get a 488 Shindaiwa. Which, incidentally, is still running strong 30 years later. Mine, that is. I don't know about his saw at this point.

 

[Andrew15]

A

As big of bar as you want brother! The bigger the better! Go big or go home! You can't run with the big dawgs, if your just gonna sit on the porch!
I tend to go as big as I possibly can! Now don't you worry about git'n enough of that ol lube oil to your bar either brother! Its over rated and ain't that important.
View attachment 1153893


Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

p

On a more serious note Gentleman. I'm all about shorter = bigger power gains and faster chain speed vs longer. Unless you absolutely need a longer bar for the class saw your running and size wood your cutting. Step down rather than up!

Hopped up pro modified 260 Pro. 50cc
16" .50g
.325 full comp round tune
View attachment 1153941

Stock 360 61cc
20" .50g
.325 full comp round tune
View attachment 1153940

Hopped up pro modified 1st edition 046 76cc
24" .63g
3/8 full skip square tune.
View attachment 1153947

Hopped up pro modified 661 91cc
28" .63g
3/8 full skip square tune
View attachment 1153942

When dink'n around with firewood. All these power saws cut just fine to my likings.

However, nothing like the 170 with a 62"
Like I mentioned earlier.
Go big or go home! View attachment 1153975



In an industrial setting as a production timber faller. Nothing but a 90cc with a minimum" of a 32" bar will do for the timber I work with.
Just my two cents Gentleman.
View attachment 1153950View attachment 1153951
View attachment 1153949
View attachment 1153987View attachment 1153985

Cut safe, stay sharp and be aware.

Damn mister, you got a whole collection of saws, pretty cool i gotta admit but i decided to just swap the bars according to the job, maybe ill even get a light bar when ill buy a 70cc.

 

[fields_mj]

On a more serious note Gentleman. I'm all about shorter = bigger power gains and faster chain speed vs longer. Unless you absolutely need a longer bar for the class saw your running and size wood your cutting. Step down rather than up!

Totally agree. The majority of my bucking is done with an 036 running an 18" bar with .325 chain on a 9 pin rim. I've opened the muffler up, and I drop the rakers down a little, but that's about it. Cuts like a dream. In 12"-18" wood it will hold its own against much larger saws running stock bars and chains. The only reason I run an 18" bar on my 026 instead of a 16" is because it does't make much difference on wood that's 6" and under, and that's mostly what I cut with that saw. I also don't cut much wood in that size, so it hasn't been worth the effort/money to add another size of bar and chain. Its just easier to use the worn out bars from the 036 on it.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I believe you are wrong. The people who engineer the saw powerhead know how much horsepower and torque and horsepower a stock, modified (new engine) will output and they calculate how long a bar can be and the optimum chain length and cutter profile that works best with the powerhead and that is what they recommend, plain simple. If you wish to run something longer or more aggressive, that is entirely up to you as the end owner/user. Specs as to output or bar length or chain aggressiveness is entirely up to you as their specs are just their advice and that advice is based on engineering principles and nothing more, and certainly someone's conjecture.

The engineers that build the saws know a helluva lot better about their capabilities than you do so long as the saw is STOCK and UNMODIFIED and run under optimum conditions.

That applies to any machinery or machine tool or your pickup truck or lawnmower or even your toothbrush. Everything you use has been engineered to run in optimum, engineered conditions, even the condom you might use, is engineered not to fail when used properly...lol Nothing worse that a failed rubber at the moment of truth....

I Totally agree. Solid Information! A stock 661 is factoy rated for a maximum bar length of 32"
Slap a 36" on a stock 661 and there is a very noticeable difference. If yiur going to run a 42" on a 661. It must be modified if you want the powerhead to last. Many West coast cutters that require a 42" bar. When in the much bigger then average timber. All run Modified 90cc. Be it Husky or Stihl. Nobody runs stock 90cc when "over baring" a power saw. A huge factor to consider. When thinking about slapping a longer bar on One's saw. Regardless the size of saw. Is wether or not the entire bar is going to be buried in wood past the tip while cutting. If so, how often and for how long?
Just my two cents.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

A

p

Damn mister, you got a whole collection of saws, pretty cool i gotta admit but i decided to just swap the bars according to the job, maybe ill even get a light bar when ill buy a 70cc.

Good on ya! What ever you prefer, like and works for you! Its your saw and yours alone. Thats the beauty of it!

P.S. that's less than 1/3 my collection. I'm one of those guys that can always make room for one more saw on the shelf and one more gun in the closet.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Totally agree. The majority of my bucking is done with an 036 running an 18" bar with .325 chain on a 9 pin rim. I've opened the muffler up, and I drop the rakers down a little, but that's about it. Cuts like a dream. In 12"-18" wood it will hold its own against much larger saws running stock bars and chains. The only reason I run an 18" bar on my 026 instead of a 16" is because it does't make much difference on wood that's 6" and under, and that's mostly what I cut with that saw. I also don't cut much wood in that size, so it hasn't been worth the effort/money to add another size of bar and chain. Its just easier to use the worn out bars from the 036 on it.

Makes total sense.

 

[fields_mj]

I Totally agree. Solid Information! A stock 661 is factoy rated for a maximum bar length of 32"
Slap a 36" on a stock 661 and there is a very noticeable difference. If yiur going to run a 42" on a 661. It must be modified if you want the powerhead to last. Many West coast cutters that require a 42" bar. When in the much bigger then average timber. All run Modified 90cc. Be it Husky or Stihl. Nobody runs stock 90cc when "over baring" a power saw. A huge factor to consider. When thinking about slapping a longer bar on One's saw. Regardless the size of saw. Is wether or not the entire bar is going to be buried in wood past the tip while cutting. If so, how often and for how long?
Just my two cents.

If the OP were cutting wood in the 12" to 14" range with a stock 362, there would be a big difference between the way a 16" and a 20" bar cuts even though the 20" is the "recommended" bar. Applying that logic, the 20" must be too long for a stock 362, which is not the case. My G660 clone normally runs a 28" bar with .404 chain. It doesn't matter how hard I lean on it, or what I'm cutting in, I can't get the saw to stall. The only exception to that is if I'm noodling and let the noodles get all backed up. I also occasionally run a 42" bar with a .375 full skip chain, and the powerhead does just fine with it. I did have to upgrade to a high output oil pump, and it has to be maxed out to keep up, but my powerhead doesn't care. If you're going to burry a bar that's over 28" long, running full skip or semi-skip is a good idea. You're going to need more room for the chips than what a full comp chain provides.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

If the OP were cutting wood in the 12" to 14" range with a stock 362, there would be a big difference between the way a 16" and a 20" bar cuts even though the 20" is the "recommended" bar. Applying that logic, the 20" must be too long for a stock 362, which is not the case. My G660 clone normally runs a 28" bar with .404 chain. It doesn't matter how hard I lean on it, or what I'm cutting in, I can't get the saw to stall. The only exception to that is if I'm noodling and let the noodles get all backed up. I also occasionally run a 42" bar with a .375 full skip chain, and the powerhead does just fine with it. I did have to upgrade to a high output oil pump, and it has to be maxed out to keep up, but my powerhead doesn't care. If you're going to burry a bar that's over 28" long, running full or semi-skip is a good idea. You're going to need more room for the chips that what a full comp chain provides.

If Im not mistaken. I believe you mean that's what "full skip" chain provides. More room for waste flow because of the bigger gap between cutters. Not full comp. Full skip also puts less load on the clutch and head. Being as there are less cutters biting into wood. Especially when a saw is over bared.
Also, I'm not sure there is a "one" recommend bar length for any particular power saw. I do believe there is a recommend maximum bar length. However, I may be wrong about that.

 

[GeneralKayoss]

Personally I like to run fairly short bars for a given cc, more like dividing by 3 than by 2. So I use a 15 inch bar on a 50cc saw, 20 inch on 76cc and 36 inch on 120 cc saw (in a mill). Its mostly personal preference, but I think its also kinder on the engine and I mostly cut hardwood.

I use the divide by 2 method for MAX bar. Dividing by 3 is giving you more of an optimal max performance bar length. Heck, my little CS400 came with an 18 inch bar and it'll chew it's way right on through whatever you bury it in.

 

[LoneOak]

Currently running a 60" on my 200T trimming.

In a side note anyone who thinks a 361 or 2 will oil like an 034-360 is way off.

Just get a bigger bar with less cutters if you want to cut faster mang.

NEWS FLASH!!!! MS361 and the MS362 use the 046, 460 oiler. These oilers are also, extremely easy to modify!

 

[Franny K]

A .325 chain has more cutters than .375, therefore it will need a shorter bar for the same cutting load on a similar engine.

If using 7 tooth drive sprockets on the same powerhead the same number of cutters pass any given spot per revolution. Chances are the .325 cutters are smaller. The .325 with more cutters in the ratio of about 9 to 8 compared with 3/8 may get bound up with chips besides that what is the logic for the above?

 

[Kodiak Kid]

NEWS FLASH!!!! MS361 and the MS362 use the 046, 460 oiler. These oilers are also, extremely easy to modify!

How dose one modify a an 046 oiler?

 

[LoneOak]

There are two methods to modifying these Stihl oilers, the "Free" and the "low cost" Both are very easy!
You will need a Dremel and a 3/32 drift punch for the "free" method. The "low cost" method will only require a 3/32 drift punch, but you will have to order parts from a Stihl dealership.
Unfortunately my main PC is not available to give you my vids but here are two from YT. They give basically the same info, just abit different procedures there even few more items I like to change that this guy doesn't.

The "Free" method. (my preferred!) You will have to fill the oil tank every time you fill the fuel tank if you go "all the way"!


The "Low Cost" method

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Fir every action. There is and equal reaction!
Action: shorter bar on power saw.
Reaction: shorter cut time through log.

Sounds good to me!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware.

 

[irhunter]

In general, the .325 equipped saws are considered more "professional" quality, and there is a lot to be said for having a shorter bar on a saw that might be used in a trimming situation.

Myself, I never saw any advantage of .325 pitch over .375 except that no one but Stihl was using it at first.

Then they graduated to .063 gauge, just to force all their users to keep coming back to the dealer for replacement chains.

I see .325 differently.

I think of it as the best option for 40 to 55cc saws...regardless of homeowner, rancher, or pro.

MS250, MS291, MS260...all run really well with .325.

IMO, the narrower kerf of .325, versus .375, just means it pulls easier.

I am not saying .375 is a disaster for those saws. At work, I have run a number of 50 cc saws which have been converted to 3/8...no big deal, really.

You might be right about the motivation for Stihl to use .063. Same for Husky and the .058.

But, they had to have known it was just a matter of a very-short time before every AM chain maker would be cranking out their versions of .063 and .058.

Roy

 

[muddy42]

I see .325 differently.

I think of it as the best option for 40 to 55cc saws...regardless of homeowner, rancher, or pro.

MS250, MS291, MS260...all run really well with .325.

IMO, the narrower kerf of .325, versus .375, just means it pulls easier.

I am not saying .375 is a disaster for those saws. At work, I have run a number of 50 cc saws which have been converted to 3/8...no big deal, really.

You might be right about the motivation for Stihl to use .063. Same for Husky and the .058.

But, they had to have known it was just a matter of a very-short time before every AM chain maker would be cranking out their versions of .063 and .058.

Roy

There is an argument for ease of having to keep less types of round file and raker guage. At a stretch, you could fit 3/8ths chain requiring a 13/64th file on any saw from 50-120cc. I have three chain and file sizes, so I don't lead by example, but I have thought about it !!

 

[irhunter]

There is an argument for ease of having to keep less types of round file and raker guage. At a stretch, you could fit 3/8ths chain requiring a 13/64th file on any saw from 50-120cc. I have three chain and file sizes, so I don't lead by example, but I have thought about it !!

Yes. I understand that.

Also, there are people who spin their chains and only want to buy one roll for everything.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Bigger bars remind me of bigger members, everyone desires one, problem most guys get shorted... Bigger the bar, heavier the saw.

 

[James Sawyer]

I run a 28" bar on my MS361 (pictured 2nd saw from the right) and 25" bar on my MS362 (the saw picture on the right)! I don't have any problems running full comp chisel chain. Long bars are norm in PNW. A new MS362 purchase in the PNW generally are sold here with 25" bar. The balance on MS362 with light weight 25" is about prefect. The MS361 with 28" light slightly nose heavy but not bad. The MS361 is my go-to saw and I just ran it yesterday, we had ice storm a few weeks ago and I lost a tree along the creek. Even my wife runs a 20" bar on her Husky 353, that is just the prefect saw for her. This bar length issue between the East Coast guys and the West Coast Guy I never really understood well or .058-gauge chains. We run .050 or .063 not many anymore run .404 that I know of? I see this at the real question, I know there a reason the East Coast guys run shorter bar that is where the real question is. You guys cut different timber than we do, we have maple and oak and some other hardwoods I don't switch bar much, I just grab a bigger saw. My opinion from my experience a MS361 will pull a 28" bar full comp chain. A 28" on MS362 might not as well... but 25" yes... but the oiler is a little light, mine has upgrade 460R oiler. I run long bars but cause it just easier... bucking, limbing and falling it safer than noodling around a tree with short bar. I don't have to bend over as much or reach out with my saws, so I get why the guy wants to run a longer bar. My opinion his saw will run a 28" bar worst case raise the rakers or run full skip.