How to put crooked firewood sellers out of business

[RCR 3 EVER]

WE were short on our wood supply this year since I was unable to cut much of anything on my own.
We decided to buy some nice looking cherry,maple,ash,locust,Oak from a local dealer we know of for other purchases.

I asked him about the difference between what I came up with and his stacks on my order of 2 full cords and he said I packed the stacks too tight.
I paid for 2 cords and received only approx. 1.5. The wood is excellent condition and it is a shame he does business this way, but he will not get any more firewood sales from me. When we saw the wood he was selling and the slightly higher charge we did mind paying slightly more since the wood was great looking and it is burning great.
Unfortunately, he "thinks" his face cords are equal to his pallets which are only 3' long! He doubles up on the pallet rows of wood giving customers only a 6' long and 4' high face cord. :jawdrop:
Boy, we sure were ripped in the long run. I hope to find a honest guy in the future in case we run short again.

 

[dingeryote]

WE were short on our wood supply this year since I was unable to cut much of anything on my own.
We decided to buy some nice looking cherry,maple,ash,locust,Oak from a local dealer we know of for other purchases.

I asked him about the difference between what I came up with and his stacks on my order of 2 full cords and he said I packed the stacks too tight.
I paid for 2 cords and received only approx. 1.5. The wood is excellent condition and it is a shame he does business this way, but he will not get any more firewood sales from me. When we saw the wood he was selling and the slightly higher charge we did mind paying slightly more since the wood was great looking and it is burning great.
Unfortunately, he "thinks" his face cords are equal to his pallets which are only 3' long! He doubles up on the pallet rows of wood giving customers only a 6' long and 4' high face cord. :jawdrop:
Boy, we sure were ripped in the long run. I hope to find a honest guy in the future in case we run short again.

Packed them too tight?
You mean like the drunk tank on a Friday night?

Remind that gent that the Volume for trade in this fine state is a Cord, and Ms.Grandmole would likely enjoy reviewing his Biz tax contributions.

Guys that are used to dealing with D-town yuppies, often misread folks who know what a Cord is, so ya have to double check with 'em on exactly what a cord is.

Make sure to spread the word about the guy.
No sense in anyone else getting ripped off.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[AIM]

I'm a contractor and every time a factory around here has a big lay off, a half dozen new contractors sprout up selling their services for pennies on the dollar. Seems as though all ya have to do is own a hammer to be a carpenter. It irritates me but after I settle down I realize that these guys get just as hungry as I do. People will do whatever they can to pay the bills. Once the factory that laid them off calls them back, 90% of the new carpenters disappear.
You have a couple ways to compete with them.

"Lower your price" - never a good idea but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

"Sell two different cords at two different prices" - Advertise the cheap price and when you get them on the phone explain that your cheap price is for a cord of not so good willow/ random lengths/ etc. But for this higher price they will get the GOOD stuff. (just an idea)

 

[Marc]

The sooner everyone gets away from using vague terms like "face cord" and "rick" and stay only with cords or fractions thereof, the fewer hucksters you'll see.

It's very uncommon around this part of Southern NE to hear volumetric firewood measurements in anything except cords or fractions of a cord.

 

[lone wolf]

there could be laws on the books enforcing 128 cubic feet.weights and measures would be who to call but you need proof.if you bought it and it didnt measure up they would come out measure it and call the seller.at least thats how it works here good luck.

 

[spencerhenry]

i dont have a problem with people selling wood at a cheap price, what i do have a problem with is people selling wood for a cheap price, but not providing what they have promised. occasionally i have seen the "cord" that people have delivered, it is not even close to a cord. usually it looks like about 2/3 or 2 face cords. i have had customers argue with me about what a cord is, i tell them that if they want 2 face cords then i can match the other guys price, but if they want a full cord, my price is my price.
there is no way that a couple of these guys can be making money unless they are ripping off the customer. my average delivery is about 30 miles one way. most sellers are alot farther than i am. buying logs by the semi load costs about $80/cord, fuel here hovers around $3 a gallon, classified ads run about $20 a week, vehicle registration and insurance here are very high.
a cord of logs by the semi is at best $80, and there are guys that are advertising full cords of split, delivered and stacked at $140. $60 to buck it, split it, load it, deliver it, and stack it, NO WAY. if you figure in chainsaw gas, oil, vehicle cost, fuel, and advertising, they would be making about $1/hour or less.

 

[Patrick62]

My lousy business plan:

a cord of logs by the semi is at best $80, and there are guys that are advertising full cords of split, delivered and stacked at $140. $60 to buck it, split it, load it, deliver it, and stack it, NO WAY. if you figure in chainsaw gas, oil, vehicle cost, fuel, and advertising, they would be making about $1/hour or less.

I have two fella's working the wood for me. I am managing this for free.
Working wood should be $12 an hour....
I calculated the time it takes to block up a cord in the woods (2 hours appox)
Then load the stuff into the truck... (1 1/2 hours, I am getting generous here). Then the cost of driving a couple of cords in, $20 for the driver, and $20 for the truck. Then split it! $18 for a hour and a half, re-load it, another $18 for an hour and a half. Delivery could be me (free), or Mary who would get a $20 for driving the truck. And the truck is gonna need another $20.

What is not figured in is:
Splitter fuel
Saw fuel & bar oil
Chains
Etc

At the current price of $155 for one, and $300 for two..... I might make $10 to $20 per cord after all the adding and subtracting is done.

 

[jfournier]

Maybe while business is slow you should just advertise along the lines of:

"Shorted on cheap firewood? Call me and get what you ordered (and a little extra to make up for the last guy)"

That way you might be able to get anyone who reads it thinking, "hey, did I get as much as advertised from that last guy?", and if they don't know maybe they'll just call you next time, or if they know they were shorted then you're coming up front and pointing out that you won't short them. Then you can throw in a couple extra armloads or whatever as a gimmick to get you noticed.

As someone who's bought wood from a few people now with consistent disappointment, some kind of guarantee of quality/quantity would go an awful long way, and I would definitely pay a little extra for that peace of mind.

 

[scotvl]

Maybe while business is slow you should just advertise along the lines of:

"Shorted on cheap firewood? Call me and get what you ordered (and a little extra to make up for the last guy)"

That way you might be able to get anyone who reads it thinking, "hey, did I get as much as advertised from that last guy?", and if they don't know maybe they'll just call you next time, or if they know they were shorted then you're coming up front and pointing out that you won't short them. Then you can throw in a couple extra armloads or whatever as a gimmick to get you noticed.

As someone who's bought wood from a few people now with consistent disappointment, some kind of guarantee of quality/quantity would go an awful long way, and I would definitely pay a little extra for that peace of mind.

Good points and ideas.

 

[wdchuck]

Every caller is an opportunity to educate.

My ads educate/inform, and have links for folks to learn all they want.

Chimney cleaning....when was their last cleaning/inspection? Really surprises them that the firewood vendor cares about safety.


Mudslinging is for politicians.

 

[mga]

one place nearby has their wood in 4 x 8 racks made of 2x4's and they are packed with wood so that every opening is filled. $75 a face cord. i thought that was a good idea to let people actually see what they are getting.

if you're advertising for full cords, put in your ads that a full cord is 3 face cords...not two. i'd also have a stacked cord of wood on display so that they can see exactly what a full cord looks like.

having a pile of logs doesn't make it interesting to the buyer.

buying wood is like buying dirt by the yard. you may think you're getting 3 yards, but who knows?

 

[job247]

Wait a bit for the weather to turn bad. Around here some of the weekend cutters dont like to get out and cut when the weather is bad and dont have enough of a stock pile to fill orders. Also some cant get into the woods when snow is on or it gets muddy and again orders dont get filled. Customers will fall back to the true sellers that can deliver a quality load when they need the wood. And like in earlier posts I think follow up wouldnt be a bad thing. The customers would see that you are a decent concerned seller and will most likely be repeat customers then. Just my two cents worth.

 

[avalancher]

Like everyone else around this great country,we have also been plagued by the weekend warriors with a walmart chainsaw.What really gets my goat is these guys who park at the local farmers market with a load of wood and a sign,"Seasoned firewood,25 bucks a rick".And their saw is in the back of the truck with the wood!
I really couldnt help myself a few weekends ago.I was down at the market for some other stuff and an elderly couple was talking to the driver of one of these trucks.They were giving him directions on how to get to their place and I really couldnt resist taking a stab at the guy.
I asked him if the wood was seasoned, why did he have his saw with?Even the couple looked startled, and then the guy starting stammering away. Said something to the effect that after he dropped this load he was going cutting for "next years" wood supply.I was going to ask him how he managed to get a whole rick in the back of a short bed toyota PU when the wood level was even with the bed,but figured I had done enough damage to his sale.
I pointed out to the couple that the oak in the back was cherry red, no checking anywhere on the ends, and that they would have better heat out of wet newspapers.I gave the couple my card, and before I even got home the phone rang.

 

[jfournier]

Just out of curiosity, what the hell is a rick, anyways?

 

[wdchuck]

Just out of curiosity, what the hell is a rick, anyways?

Exactly.

 

[avalancher]

a rick is a face cord, one row 16 inch wood stacked 4ft high and 8ft long.
Common term around here, nobody has a clue what a cord is.
When I first started selling wood here, I advertised by the cord like back home.Didnt get a single call for a month.Changed it to "a rick" and started selling.A few folks even called me and asked what the heck is a cord.

 

[blackdogon57]

I hear yah. I know full well what a cord is and try to sell my wood in cords or fractions of cords. It doesn't stop most customers calling and asking how much for a face cord and how much for a bush cord. Terminology varies from place to place. As long the buyer is getting what they pay for at a fair price who cares what they call it.

 

[avalancher]

who cares what they call it.

I got one old guy who orders his by "the trailer load".I have tried asking him if he wants two ricks, three ricks, or what ever, but he insists on "just bring me a trailer load"
Last winter he was a little shocked when I handed him the bill for his "trailer load".He wanted to know why it had gone up by 60 bucks.I explained that when I loaded it this time, I stacked a good bit rather than throwing it in loose, and managed to get in a extra rick.In the end he was okay with that after he stacked his wood and discovered how much more he got that time.

 

[b1rdman]

I hear yah. I know full well what a cord is and try to sell my would in cords or fractions of cords. It doesn't stop most customers calling and asking how much for a face cord and how much for a bush cord. Terminology varies from place to place. As long the buyer is getting what they pay for at a fair price who cares what they call it.

A guy trying to do business in an open and honest manner cares...I think this is the OP's point.

The truth of the matter is that rick and face cord are two dimensional. Yes, I know 16" is typical but it's not "the rule" and from that comes many of these problems.

Many customers don't know about the "missing" third dimension, some firewood guys don't even know, and some do know but choose the use the obscurity of those definitions to their advantage.

 

[wdchuck]

There is a guy along the freeway that palletizes his firewood.

He doesn't have any loose piles, it gets stacked on a pallet that is two rows of 16" wood 4'x4'. Wrapped in cellophane, to hold it together but allows plenty of airflow, right off the processor and stacked two pallets high and he gets it dry pretty darn quick.

Uniformity of product is the first thing that came to my mind the first time I saw his setup. The second thing, no snow/dirt/bugs in that package format.