List of Upgrades to Vermeer SC252

[jhg]

I just aquired a 252

I was lucky to find a one owner machine but the bushings are really sloppy, especially on the swing cylinders. I am also changing out the lift pivot bushings to needle bearings.
This is a late '97 machine and already had the three v belt on the lower end rather than the poly belt. That saved me 160.00 since I'd have bought Vermeer's kit.

No one has mentioned this, but after looking at the pillow block bearings I got from Vermeer why not just press out the worn bearings and drop in new ones? With an extra set down time is no problem. Have not priced the bearings inside the pillows yet, but am sure they are WAY less than the 76.00 each I dropped at Vermeer.

My cutter wheel is just about toast and since I got my yellow jackets for almost nothing they will buy me time as the pockets lay on the wheel face differently -across all the wear from the Pro pockets, essentially negating the wear - until I decide to buy another wheel. (Multi Tip). I did have to file the ridges that had formed flush with the wheel face before installation of the new YJ pockets though.
I bought my needle bearings from Motion Industries. The full set of eight bearings, with shipping, came to under 51.00.

Anyway, thanks for all the great info here.

J-

 

[stumper63]

jhg,

what were the other two needle bearings for, I count only two for the lift cylinder, and four for the two swing cylinders?

Part #s? Did you use same Timkens as Plyscamp's post awhile back?

Thanks,

Stumper63

 

[jhg]

Hey Stumper

I also changed the bushings on the lift pivot to needle bearings. I don't know what brand I am getting with those. I just gave the bearing guy @ Motion Ind. the ID/OD and width.

I'll have a new machine by the time I'm done. Well, actually a new 1640hr machine with a 500hr motor. I even re-packed the wheel bearings and cleaned the pre-filter screen in the hydraulic tank...and its stored under a warm blanky.


Joshua, who knows his machine inside and out now.

 

[wayne1966]

Sc252 with 18hp engine - need more cutting power

I just got a sc252 as a gift (from a friend who passed away), It has a new engine on it, but it is only a 18hp engine. It cuts VERY slow and boggs down alot. Any ideas how I can make it cut quicker, other than replacing the engine. The engine is BRAND NEW. Any help will be apprieciated.

 

[stumper63]

Sorry Wayne, don't know why they would have done that to you. 18hp is way small. The 27hp Kohler that they have been putting on the 252's for years now aren't bad, but for a couple hundred more you can get the 35hp Vanguard.

You got it as a gift, now spend about $2500 or so to make it work for ya. You could get a few bucks for the existing engine.

Stumper63

 

[albertflores]

2005 SC252 Stump Grinder

Does anyone know how to disable sweep, I have precision governor model E258 not computer box??

Please help, I've spent quite a bit trying to get it running now I need speed.

 

[ApexTreeService]

open the lid, reach in to the far right (front), and unplug one of the 3 (or4) plugs from the approx. 2"x2" box in the top right hand corner.

 

[ApexTreeService]

Few tips: I just changed to Amsoil Synthetic 5-30 universal hydraulic transmission fluid, and now there is no warm up time, the hydraulics are as quite and fast at start up as warm. Just put a light on, on the angled part of the motor/jack-shaft double v belt cover. Rubber housing, 55w Harbor Freight tractor light, wired through a simple on/ off switch connected to hot. The ground, is made through the light housing bolt you bolt to chassis. I just figured this out, as a side effect of towing the machine without a trailer (much much easier, highly recommend) by freewheeling the tires by disengaging the wheel hubs: to maneuver tight corners on hard surfaces, or in general, reach down, and disengage the wheel hub closest to you, if it's stuck, rock forward and back with left hand on controls, and disengage with right hand. You can make turns about 3 times as fast! I use Greenteeth, I love them, and if you keep them rotated, they cut VERY fast, and take banana peel size chunks off. Install an Amsoil Bypass auxiliary oil filter to get the fine dirt that really does damage. You can install it in like an hour, and probably double the life of motor?

 

[ApexTreeService]

No drive power, SOS

Just wonder if anyone knows why the hydraulics (low drive power, and slower boom speed) in my machine have lost power awhile ago? Happened before I sped up hydraulic pump with pulley change, then the pulley change fixed it temporarily. I just replaced and tightened the belt, no fix. I can barely make it up a hill. Is it the pump, the speed knob, some valve somewhere? Fluid full, filter new, screen in bottom of fluid clear, new tight belt. Worn out pump? Can the impeller action of the motor even wear out?

 

[Bigstumps]

Sounds like a pressure problem. Pressure = power Flow = speed.

At the pump there are two hoses - a suction hose from the tank and a pressure hose to the valve. Where the pressure hose goes into the inlet section of the valve there is usually a relief. This relief is normally adjustable - some type of cover over the adjustment then usually an allen or slot screw adjustment. Turning it in, clockwise, puts more force against the relief spring and adjusts the system pressure. You really need to have a gauge in line while you do this. Turn in the relief - operate a function, head up, so it goes to full stroke and causes the system to go over relief - this will show you where your relief pressure is set. Don't know where Vermeer sets it but 2000PSI ought to be safe.

If turning the relief valve does not increase pressure your pump may be bad. When a pump goes bad a lot of times it is able to pump fluid (make flow) at lower pressures but when it needs to deliver at higher pressures it cannot.

When you put on a bigger pump - depending on how large you went - you may should have increased the suction line size. Starving a pump for fluid will cause cavitation and ruin the pump.

Let us know what you find.

 

[stumper63]

I don't think he put on a different pump, just a smaller pulley on the pump to increase pump speed, hence flow, something a bunch of us have done to increase the drive, swing, and up/down speed.

I've done it one two 252's now. Had power up the wazoo on the first. I will say the second 252 won't spin the tires on dry pavement if up against a stationary object like the first one, but it may be a worn pump too. But it works just fine.

Apex, let us know what the cure is when you find it.

Stumper63

 

[ApexTreeService]

Update: I took it to a hydraulic repair man locally because I didn't want to buy hydraulic gauges etc and use up my time.

The pump has a bad seal, he said it had normal pressure until a load was applied then the pressure dropped. Said a seal was cavitating.

Does anyone have a part number and vendor for a pump seal kit?

 

[stumper63]

Vermeer carries one, but it's quite expensive, couple hundred bucks I think. New pump is about $395 if I remember right.

Stumper63

 

[ApexTreeService]

New info:

Hydraulic pump is a Webster YB series pump, model 29YB, 2000psi and 4000 rpm max. Actual 3d diagram and all motor specs at this link: Webster YB Series Hydraulic Gear Pumps, MYB Unidirectional Hydraulic Motors, Birotational Hydraulic Motors

Pump model number is: 29YBADO12-2LB, this pump was built by Webster, but I guess Sauer-Danfoss took over making parts for it awhile ago because it is out of production. Now, Quality Control Corp., as of 2010, has acquired the Webster B, YB, and YC series and manufactures all parts and complete replacement pumps.

Quality Control Corp
Tim Dreeland
(708) 887-6269
7315 W. Wilson Ave.
Harwood Heights, IL 60706
708-887-5400
708-887-5009 (fax)
[email protected]

I called Sauer-Danfoss and they didn't know what I was talking about for parts, so apparently they don't cover this line anymore? Although, the 2 page rebuild kit instructions included with my rebuild kit had Sauer-Danfoss logo.

Now for the good part. My pump, running over 4000 rpm for over a year with the pulley conversion to increase ground speed, and a rental unit originally to boot, has gears and bearing with hardly any wear according to the professional hydraulic mechanic I hired to fix my machine. The inner seal assembley (black oval seal about 2" across) had "cavitated", and was missing an 1/8th inch chunk allowing high pressure to leak back into the low pressure side.

Now for the part numbers:

rebuild kit complete with everything below: 163s1009, cost me $69.95 plus shipping.
main seal assembly: 48000
shaft seal: 46255
anti-extrusion block: 38029
wear plate: 36163-1
insert gasket: 38028
insert bridging: 38027
o-ring: 163m6036 (2 needed)
key square: 21021

I am attaching the 2 page repair instructions to this post. Don't replace your motor or buy from Vermeer, $82 and my pump will be like new! Also, looks very easy to do even though I hired a mechanic to do it cause he has flow meter, line plugs, and TIME!

Hope this helps everyone because I could not find one thing on the internet about a repair kit, only 3 people locally were able to identify the pump and get a price for me (some double others, and still took 2 weeks to get even though told them 2nd day air), and the only links on the internet were to two posts on this forum about part numbers. Now you have it all, diagrams, everything.

Here are the instructions and diagram.
View attachment 201544View attachment 201545

 

[stumper63]

BIG help for all of us. Thanks for chasing down what I couldn't get done! BTW, did you ever get a quote from Vermeer on their repair kit?

Stumper63

 

[ApexTreeService]

BIG help for all of us. Thanks for chasing down what I couldn't get done! BTW, did you ever get a quote from Vermeer on their repair kit?

Stumper63

Yes they do have it available, they have to order it, but it is over 2, I think it was $230 from what I remember. I called Vermeer of Washington cause computers at Utah Vermeer down. I bought my kit third party, although Quality Control Corp. says Webster parts "Now available only through QCC and authorized distributors", so, I'd try to order direct from them. Also, next time I'd just call and say I'm Apex Hydraulic, don't have an account but would like to set one up and get a part for a customer. Probably $30 direct.

 

[ApexTreeService]

Update: Performance with 3" hydraulic pulley coversion and pump rebuild

Mechanic said gears and bearings like new even though I have been running the faster pump/3" pulley conversion for 2 years now. It is quieter now after the rebuild, but still whines some. He said I should have no problems running it at it's max rpm of 4000. After the pump rebuild, all hydraulics are VERY fast and powerful. Almost (I said almost) too fast. I have to use the knob to decrease ground speed while grinding so it doesn't lurch forward. The boom speed at maximum speed is almost instant, meaning you can sweep chips aside, or get from one side of the hole to the other side if need be with almost no pauses. Boom is really fast! The machine actually wheelies and inch or two when grabbing forward, or, a lot when your changing direction if you don't watch what your doing. Tires are unstoppable. Was nice today cause again I can pull up on curbs and drive all terrain until the tires break loose. Hydraulics are fast and touchy. Kinda like driving a Bobcat, gotta be careful not to wheelie up, and nice and easy on boom so you don't grab too much.

 

[stumper63]

OK, probably been covered before, but thought I would pass this along:

To remove bearings from cutter wheel shaft or jackshaft, don't bother trying to pull them off. Use an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel to CUT the bearings apart, first the housing, then the outer bearing, then the bearings and retainer fall out, then you're just left with the inner race. Carefully cut most of the way through the race, trying to avoid cutting into the shaft. Cold chisel at the cut, a couple of whacks and the race splits right off or loosens enough to slide off whole. Even if you nick the shaft slightyly it won't hurt the performance, just file the burr and emery cloth it. Why didn't I think of it sooner??? Saves lots of frustration, takes about 5 minutes per bearing.

Trying out a new jackshaft belt for the first time. It's a Gates 2A 64, from Motion Industries. It's essentially like two factory single belts banded together. Since I'm running the 35hp Vanguard it should handle the increased torque a bit better, though the factory setup worked pretty good. Plyscamp uses the 2B 65, it's a larger belt that doesn't quite fit into the factory pullys, so I thought I would give this a go and see what happens. Cost about $20, so we'll see how it does. Will report later.

Also trying out new cutter wheel bearings, Turner UCP208 24 is the model, got them at McGuire Bearing. A fellow grinder up in Seattle area has over 1,000 hours on a set of these, cost only $32 each. Vermeer bearings are now $86. I'm running a 1999 model 252 that has welded in guides for the bearings. These bearing housings are about 1/16" too long, so had to grind a bit off the end. If you have a 2003 or newer 252 it has adjustable guides so you wouldn't have to grind, just back off the adjustment screw a little.
Here's the other thing he has done: he has only greased the bearings once in that 1000 hours, and that just a couple of pumps. Seems completely counter-intuitive, but the rep at McGuire bearing said he had it right. Once you pass grease all the way through the seal you've compromised the seal, then must keep purging every day. Anyway, I thought I'd try not greasing and see what happens. Will let you know how they hold up. I usually only get about 400-500 hours or so from Vermeer bearings on the cutter shaft, greasing daily. Maybe I'll save in grease cartridges too.

Stumper63

 

[ApexTreeService]

Another way to remove a bearing off a shaft, and faster, is to use a cutoff tool to get rid of the outer race, cage, and such, then your left with just the pressed on race on the shaft. To get this off quick, I use oxy-acetalyne cutting tip. Just cut the race at an angle so the flame doesn't touch the shaft. This is how shops do it, and it really is fast and easy to get to tight areas where a cutoff wheel won't get.

 

[Bigstumps]

Bearings are different. Some are made to purge - the seal is designed to let grease and pressure out as you grease. Some bearings are not purgeable (sic) and should not have grease pumped in them until it comes out the seal - it will get ruined.

I tried a set of non-purgeable on my Rayco - didn't run for 100 hours - our soil here is sandy and I suspect that got in there.

It will be fun to see what happens. Never heard of that brand of bearing.