McCulloch Chain Saws

[PogoInTheWoods]

If I roll the saw onto the flywheel side and back upright, at idle it will stall almost every time.....
.....Anyone have a tillotson I can swap into this thing?

Hate to say it, but I don't think a Tilly will fix your problem.

Sounds like what you really need is a MityVac (or a homegrown rig) to do a proper vac/pressure test. You can always do the "spray WD40 everywhere until it stalls" leak test but that approach is very messy, frustrating, and rarely conclusive.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

.....and a waste of WD40.

 

[2broke2ride]

That's just it, I've literally pressure tested this thing until I'm blue in the face. If there is a leak, I'm not finding it, but that sure is how it acts.

 

[2broke2ride]

I have a mityvac and a homemade pressure testing rig that uses compressed air, regulated down obviously lol

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Well then..., just scratch that. LOL Maybe it is possessed!

I feel your frustration, brother.

 

[fossil]

Maybe you could get the 8200 and the 440 together for a group suicide.

 

[happysaws]

I've had it with this 440!!!!! Had it running good and cutting good. Took it out to show my dad, started it up and the idle ran away...... lost the tune. Messed with it a little in the garage that night, got it re tuned, or so I thought but was too late to cut with it. Went tonight to try to cut and fine tune it and it won't start!!!!! Fuel running out of the muffler!!!! I only hit the primer once initially, and it popped on the first pull, then nothing but an occasional pop after that. So fed up with this thing!!!

So I got it to fire up and run again, had to pull the plug and clean it. Tried to tune it again and it still isn't acting right. Thought I had it close, made a cut with it, by the end of the cut I had lost the fourstroke unloaded, and the idle started to run away again. It really acts like an air leak but I've done the crank seals (twice now actually) re sealed the reed plate and air box, new carb kit and carb base gasket. New plug twice, only gaskets left are the stuffer and the flywheel side engine cover. If I roll the saw onto the flywheel side and back upright, at idle it will stall almost every time.

Anyone have a tillotson I can swap into this thing? I never have these problems with those!!!

Sounds like it could be an air leak.
I realize that you've done a pressure test,

I had a Remington PL-6 act like this, after many many months of messing around and replacing seals, swapping carbs and about everything else that can be thought of, I found that the crankcase had a 3+1/2" crack in it. It passed a pressure/vacuum test...

Not saying that's what's wrong with your saw, but it could have an air leak somewhere that a pressure test may not reveal.
Just my $.02

 

[Hoggwood]

I have resorted to dunking troublesome saws in a bin of water for pressure tests. Requires a bit more to strip them down with the points though. I have chased a couple of leaks before that ended up eating up way more time than the prep and dunk test would have demanded.

By that point you are celebrating when you see that elusive leak sending up a tracer of bubbles to the surface.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I just fired up the 8200 for the first time an hour ago. Needs dialed in but has good compression and seems happy so far with the refurb'd piston. Time and a workload will certainly tell that tale.

Is there a rule of thumb for the oiler adjustment relative to bar length? I didn't mess with it when it was apart and it oils like crazy with a 24" setup..., as in excessively like crazy. Looks good with the eBay bargain bar despite the washed out pic, eh?

​

 

[astnmacgto]

I didn't keep up very well with your build, where did you get new rings

 

[svk]

Yep, looks great!

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I didn't keep up very well with your build, where did you get new rings

Ended up using the rings from my SP81 rebuild that I personally thought had questionable end gap. Was told that what I was seeing was relatively normal. That said, the SP81 with new rings now has incredible compression. Just couldn't afford a new set right now for the 8200 and was curious about how the used rings would work out. Not quite as much compression as my PM800, but close. Would be wicked with new rings.

Yep, looks great!

Thank you, sir. It was already in real nice shape when I got it. Just needed a decent bar and an unobtainium piston. Piece o' cake. LOL

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

So about the excessive oiling with the PM8200...

I'm thinking I may have a check ball valve issue? Like maybe it's not 'checking' and just allowing a free flow vs. a pulse controlled flow? Sure is a mess as it sits and looks like the oil pump is coming out for a once over twice. Also have a touchy idle issue that needs dialed in. That's all I was doing to get all the oil delivery you see in the pic -- adjusting the 'L' needle! Continued to flow quite a bit even after I shut the saw down. And the oiler is the one thing I didn't rebuild on this saw. Figures that it would come back to bite me. At least I know the oiler works!

​

 

[2broke2ride]

So, the possessed 440...... it is torn down again for yet another pressure test. The only leak I can find is from the oil port on the bar pad...... I think this is normal though as this saw uses an impulse driven piston oil pump (which works) can anyone confirm this?.......... Mark? I don't know where to go from here..... light in on fire? Call a priest? I have been over this saw countless times.
In other news, I messaged a guy last night on a really clean 7-10 for a stupid low price but still haven't heard anything back, probably missed out again[emoji35] that is another of my bucket list saws along with a 550.

 

[heimannm]

Crankcase pressure should not vent through the oiler, if it does something is amiss. The crankcase impulse works that phenolic disc to operate the little pin that is the automatic oil pump.

If it leaks through the bar pad the oil pump body or the pin/piston may be worn too far.

Mark

 

[heimannm]

Poge - if the check valve malfunctions it won't pump, oil leaking like that is generally because the check valve in the oil tank cap is missing or the gasket on the oil tank cover is leaking.

Open the oil tank and turn the assisting screw 1 to 2 turns clockwise to reduce the auto oil pump output. If the saw sits idling the automatic pump keeps pumping and can leave a mess in just a few minutes. Not like a gear driven pump that only delivers oil when the clutch is moving.

Mark

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Thanks for the input as usual.

I intend to pull and disassemble the pump in the morning for a thorough inspection. The oil you see was all pump delivery volume to the bar/chain. No leaking from the cap or the tank (new gasket there). I found the general adjustment procedure in the old 10 Series service manual and will give that a shot for starters. I'll also check the pump on my PM800 as a comparison for the setting of the adjustment screws. It oils just right for a 28" setup and doesn't weep too bad at all while just idling. If I can replicate that I'll be happy. I'm just happy it runs and feels like it has some decent potential if I can get the carb dialed in. Very touchy 'L' adjustment is giving me a bit of concern like I have an air leak. Would need to be the impulse or intake assembly leaking somewhere as the short block was tight as a drum. Carb diaphragms were in great shape so I don't think they're contributing to the adjustment issue. On the other hand it may have just been running out of gas. LOL Don't think there was much in the tank to begin with and I just fired it up impulsively today to hear it run a second time and get another look at the oiling situation before I got into that any further.

 

[2broke2ride]

Crankcase pressure should not vent through the oiler, if it does something is amiss. The crankcase impulse works that phenolic disc to operate the little pin that is the automatic oil pump.

If it leaks through the bar pad the oil pump body or the pin/piston may be worn too far.

Mark

What can I do about this mark? What would I be looking for if I take the pump apart.

 

[heimannm]

If the problem is in fact the automatic oil pump is worn out you would need to replace it. Not an easy job as the fuel tank has to come off the top or the oil tank off the front to be able to remove the automatic pump to get at the mounting screws.



Have a close look at the piston and the ring (phenolic disc) as they need to be a very snug fit in the body of the pump to avoid any leaks.







Mark

 

[heimannm]

I spent some time today pulling a few saws from my small garage/garden shed and starting them up to keep everything in good working order.

Non McCulloch's to begin with - Jonsered 910, and 621 x 2...all started up pretty easily but one of the 621's has a problem like 2brokes 440 had, no rev when the throttle is opened. If you let it run for a few minutes it will take off. Back up on the shelf.

Next up were the Titan 57 and PM1000, sort of non McCulloch McCulloch's. I had to give the PM1000 a little prime since it has been sitting without being started for maybe 18 months. Once it fired it took off and ran as it should. Topped off the fuel with a bit of Stabil and back on the shelf for those two.

Next up were two more non Mc McCulloch's, the SP85 (Dolmar 133) and SP118 (Dolmar 166). The 85 took off an ran like any new saw but the starter in the 118 had an issue. I documented this more fully in the Dolmar thread, but had to make a couple of "brake springs" for the starter pawls from some McCulloch pawl springs I had on hand. The 118 then started right up, chain oiled very well, and I only wish I had a good excuse to put that 34" bar in some wood. Maybe the PNW GTG?



Moving on, the Super 2-10 and 2-10 PS were next. I had to prime the Super 2-10 as the primer in the bullfrog does not work, but those two were run and then topped up and put back up on their shelf.

Next up was a D-36 and 1-51. The 1-51 came from Philbert at the IA GTG last year and starts and runs as well as any vintage saw could. No manual priming needed, just choke and pull...maybe 5 or 6 pulls and running. The D-36 was much the same way and other than the Lubri-Mac not seeming to pump any oil/residue to the chain another GTG saw ready to go.

Across the aisle I went through the 77, 1-86, and 660. The primer on the 77 does not work so it takes a manual prime to get it going, but is sure sounds healthy when running. The 1-86 would lean out badly if you hold it WOT for more than a second or two so I pulled the carburetor (HL) and did not find anything seriously wrong but did readjust the metering lever by 0.020 or 0.030" and back together again and running strong. The 660 only needed fuel to get it going, started with the choke after maybe 6 or 8 pulls. This one also has a Tillotson carburetor.

I moved up a shelf and took out an SP105, CP125 (the one I rebuilt), 1-85, Super 250, and the SP125 from the GTG two weeks ago. All saws started right up and ran well. I would like to try the Super 250 in some wood again one day, I don't think I've cut anything with it since I got it going a 2 or 3 years ago.

I also went through the other saws from the GTG, Remington Super 2 x 2, Dolmar 610 (little bugger, not the twin), SD KMS4, BP-1, Super LG6, SP70, Poulan 4200 & 5400.

I thinks that's it.

Mrs. Heimann wanted me to work in the yard but I managed to step aside for today anyway.

Mark