New Rayco RG 90...I saw one in action today

[mtcates]

I was driving around town grinding stumps and I saw this new Rayco Stump Grinder being unloaded a few houses down the street from one of my jobs so I stopped just to see what machine this guy had. It happened to be the new RG90 by Rayco. I was interested to see this 90 HP beast in action and he was so proud to show off his new machine. Well, he went to work on a pine stump about 16 inches in diameter cut within 4 inches of the ground. When he finished he stopped the machine and asked me what I thought. I told him I could out grind his machine with my 60 HP Carlton 7015. No way he said, 90 HP compaired to 60 HP. Well, there happened to be another stump exactly the same size as the one he ground. I unloaded my machine and showed him. I ground the 16 inch pine stump to the same depth as he did; about 6 to 8 inches below grade. It took me 16 passes of the cutter wheel and about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes. My 60 HP $30,000 machine out-cut his 90 HP $50,000 machine; and the Rayco did not even have a remote control like my Carlton. Our teeth seemed to be about the same degree of sharpness. Mine were possibly a little duller. The 90 HP machine could not take as much wood on a pass as my 60 HP machine. The only thing that I can think of that could be the cause of this is the tooth pattern on the Carlton as well as my own tooth configuration is more efficient at cutting the wood. I do believe that if we were pulling the same cutter wheel, he would have easily been the winner. This shows that there is more to cutting a stump than just horsepower. I use 3 different types of teeth on the wheel at the same time. I have figured out a way to make the machine cut more efficiently and now I have witnessed it in person with a comparison to a much more powerful machine. I hope I didn't hurt his feelings too much...........

 

[spike-columbia]

How about sharing your configuration!

Everyone will be very interested.

Thanks for reply.

 

[Koa Man]

The experience of the operator is also a big factor. I can grind a stump much faster than my climber using the same machine. I have about 50 times more experience operating it.

 

[mtcates]

Spike.....The main benefit of the tooth configuration on my Carlton cutter wheel comes from this. The cutters on the wheel that take out the center on a plunge cut have no need to touch the stump unless you are plunge cutting. On a side sweep which accounts for 99% of your grinding time, the side leads do most of the cutting. I simply set all of the center cutting teeth to about 1/4 to 3/8 inch deeper into the pocket to eliminate their drag on the stump in a side sweep. I also use a different tooth for this position. It has about 1/4 inch less side offset than the main side cutters. Every manufacturer has a different cutter wheel design and there will be some difference in setup. The Rayco wheel design robs power with the way the center cutters stick out past the side leads. If an operator uses the bolt on teeth with no way to guage them, like the rayco super cutters, then he is loosing a lot of power to pull those center cutters through the wood. If I owned a Rayco I would use standard 1/2 inch shank teeth in these positions on the wheel and set them to a depth where they did not drag on the stump in a side sweep. If I'm not mistaking, the rayco wheel on this RG90 had 6 straight cutters at this position on the wheel. Now the Vermeer tooth pattern is superior to the Rayco in this manner because the center cutters position on the wheel are pre-drilled so they are cutting a little behind the side leads. This is exactly what I do with my Carlton wheel by setting them a little deeper. .......Another thing that I do is; I use Leonardi tomahawk teeth on the Lead cutting positions. For those of you that haven't tried these teeth, do yourself a favor and try them. They have a radical positive cutting angle and it cuts the wood easier. Behind the leads I use a standard 1/2 inch Kennametal shank tooth in a Leonardi Ultimate Pocket. The pockets are heat treated and release the tooth very easily when loosened for changing. The lead cutters offset to the side about 1/8 inch more than the kennametal shank tooth......Think about my theory here tell me what you think........If I take a chainsaw and cut a curf in a piece of wood an inch or two from the end I can take a hammer and with a very light tap i can break off a piece of wood. It breaks with the grain. Now think about the teeth behind the leads on a stump cutter. If the lead offsets a little farther to the side than the teeth farther back, the back teeth in a sense are just breaking the wood off with the grain instead of cutting a new curf so to speak. With this setup I can sharpen or change the leads and let the back teeth get very dull and it still cuts very well. The wheel on my machine has a tooth pattern which lets me cut about 2 3/4 inches of wood on a pass and if the teeth are in good shape I can cut all of that and then some with a very fast sweep to boot.......... I'm sure that if this guy was turning my wheel on his RG 90 he would have beat my grinding time, But I have this wheel setup down to a science and he does not.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into it.
What do you think of this tooth setup?

 

[mtcates]

TreeCo.........I'm just posting the truth on what happened to me the other day and trying to share what I have learned about the wheel setup with others. I really dont care how fast another stump grinder is. I know I have a very productive machine and it serves me well. I make my living with a stump grinder. I don't do tree work at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I respect yours, However, This did happen just as I said in my original post.

 

[stumpy66]

Interesting stuff mtcates, you can keep sharing your truth cos i find it facinating....i am enjoying another proper stumpers experiences. will check out Leonardi tomahawk teeth....thanks mtcates..

 

[Thor's Hammer]

so what do you guys think of the multi tip system then?
http://www.multi-tip.com/index.htm

 

[mtcates]

Thor........That stump grinder in the picture you posted looks like a huge machine. Looks like one of those land clearing grinders. Now that would be the machine to have for high production but it sure would be tough on the turf........I have no comment on the Multi tip system. I have read the other posts on this websight about them but have yet to see them in action...

Stumpy66.....here is the web address for the Tomahawk teeth. http://www.leonardimfg.com/teethtomahawk.html They are not cheap but they sure do cut well. I only run them on the lead positions. The cutters behind the leads I run 1/2 inch shank standard teeth. Check out the positive rake angle of the cutting tip. The carbide tip is large enough that I can sharpen them 4 to 6 times before they are worn out. I sharpen them right on the cutter wheel with a 4 inch angle grinder.........What stump machine do you have?

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Yeah MT, its a land clearing machine. About 500hp I think...

 

[stumpy66]

I run a dosko (with multitip fitted) and a vermeer 352 standard.
There are two versions of the multitip, the first which i bought into is adequate for small machines, it transformed the cutting from the original dosko wheel, much beter cut. better design...the original idea was to slot the teeth in to the wheel to spead the load of the tooth and wheel...the bolts bend so that didn't quite work. You have to change the way you think with it, use new bolts nearly every time but it does cut well....as for quality....the teeth can have tips come off....
The new version have address'ed this. and seems to be a lot more sturdy and has a safer feel i guess....it is good that someone is trying a new product in the cutter world. we all need innovation, it will make out lives easier and more profitable. A lot of bad ???? is said about the system, mostly fuelled by other manafacturers (in my experience anyway) i say that people should try it, be open to it. It is a differnt system and needs to worked differently. Multitip's/arbourplant customer/dealer service has been rubbish to me but i everyone should think about it and be a little open minded to the innovation's in the industry......(i will have a litle sit down now, perhaps a cup of tea)...others experiences required.....has anyone else used it...seen it or heard any first hand feedback....Rob

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Anyone know anything about these then???
http://www.mgt.sandvik.com/sandvik/...us17001.nsf/LookupAdm/BannerForm?OpenDocument

 

[mtcates]

Thor......Carlton is working out a deal right now to put this wheel on their machines. They actually have already done so. I talked to a guy with a Carlton 7015 like mine and he said that with this wheel the 60 HP machine will cut 5 inches of wood on a single pass. This wheel has been out for some time but only as an aftermarket product. I actually told the guy that had the RG90 that he should get this wheel for his machine and referred him to a websight where he could get one. I wasn't putting down his RG90 at all when I beat his time with my 60 hp machine. It was all in the wheel I know. His machine would beat me hands down if he was turning the same wheel. I would trade him tomorrow for his machine if he would do so.

Stumpy66........I have thought about getting a smaller machine for the extremely tight areas. I have not made up my mind yet and dont know if it would be profitable. My machine can get through a 36 inch gate. I have been thinking about an Alpine Magnum. A Grinder that I can carry on my shoulder would be an asset on some jobs but at 4 grand its a lot of money.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

sounds good. I fancy one on one of these...

 

[stumpy66]

thats produced by the same people that produce multitip.........again, all experiences apprieciated...

 

[Thor's Hammer]

yeah. arborplant. unfortunately, they dont seem to have a very good reputation.
i just like the design of that thing. you can see it was designed by a treeman.

 

[stumpy66]

i can only speak from experience...spent 700 quid to become a distributer of multitip....spent money, got stock, but no backup....no promises/deals kept, no calls no letter....all patrick was worried about was if i was using the teeth for myself....so i have the stock...but no details of anyone that uses them....nice one multitip......again, its not a bad product.....but what an arse of a company......

 

[Thor's Hammer]

I have to say, from an engineering standpoint the dura disc is way better. Personaly, I've always used rayco super teeth. The multitip looks too flimsy.

 

[stumpy66]

have you used duradisc.....i am still trying to get my head around it....but try the new version of multitip.......it is not a bad effort.....

 

[mtcates]

Thor........What Stump Grinding machine do you run? I have tried the Rayco super teeth and while I do love their design of one piece, the tomahawk tooth that I run at lead on my wheel cuts with much less effort. Just try one set of tomahawks and let me know what you think. The price is very similar to the rayco super teeth.

Stumpy66.......I have never ran the duradisc myself but I have met a guy that has used one for several years now. He now has a machine like mine with the duradisc. He demoed the wheel on his machine for Carlton and they were so impressed that they made a deal with Sandvik and are now offering the wheel from the factory. The 60 HP Carlton 7015 he has will cut 5 inches of wood on a single pass with a 27 inch cutter wheel.