Ok...Outgrown the Dremel....Foredom on the horizon...But..need info.

[Toad22t]

Sorry for somewhat hijacking the thread but I was curious on what would be a gd starter tool to use for porting. I looked into the cc specialtys tools and they all look very nice and everything I've read on them they work great for this. But I'm not ready to drop 600 dollars to find out that I dont have the skill, hand or patience for porting. At first I'm thinking of just widening ports. Then getting into degreeing them and if all works well getting into the transfers. But of course after a whole bunch more reading and questions. They for any help or advice that can be given to me on this subject and also sorry for somewhat turning this page around. And to the opposite direction.

 

[Cantdog]

Sorry for somewhat hijacking the thread but I was curious on what would be a gd starter tool to use for porting. I looked into the cc specialtys tools and they all look very nice and everything I've read on them they work great for this. But I'm not ready to drop 600 dollars to find out that I dont have the skill, hand or patience for porting. At first I'm thinking of just widening ports. Then getting into degreeing them and if all works well getting into the transfers. But of course after a whole bunch more reading and questions. They for any help or advice that can be given to me on this subject and also sorry for somewhat turning this page around. And to the opposite direction.

I guess the first level of tooling is just a simple dremmel.....these work pretty good on alum but are somewhat slow.....which is not a bad thing just starting out. Plus the dremmel has many other uses around the shop and home.

 

[imagineero]

+ 1 on Dremel as a starter tool. Buy used, and be sure to get one with a variable speed motor and as many bits as you can for free. The flexshaft attachment is useful. Once you get it, stay away from the genuine dremel bits. The aftermarket stuff is often better and certainly a lot cheaper. I use mine for so many things around the shop.

Shaun

 

[Mastermind]

The cc will work on foredoms and even the cheap harbor freight motor that looks like a foredom. I know a few people have went that way. A good handpiece and a cheap motor. If you're not doing a lot of work I'm sure the cheaper motor would work fine.

Exxcellent...good info...nice to know a number of these items will interchange.....I would most likely would not go the Harbor Freight route.....but good to know!! I assume that when doing fine work a better hand piece would really show it's valve more, rather than a good motor especially in alum...where power would not be an issue so much.....This is the kind of info I am seeking...Thanks..

I greased up the cord right off the bat. It works well for the money. It has PLENTY of power. Im sure its not as nice and quite as a Foredom or a CC motor, but the HF doesn't have near the $$$$$ either. If mine ever goes, Ill chunk it and buy another HF...... . Don't expect nothing of the HF handpiece that comes with the kit :msp_thumbdn:.

The Harbor Freight motor is plenty strong, like Durand said, just grease the shaft and throw the handpiece away. The Foredom and CC handpieces are the way to go and snap right on.

I had one of the HF units until Scooterbum sent me a Foredom.......I then passed the HF on to "The Wiggs". The Foredom straight handpiece is quite a bit larger than a Dremel flex shaft handpiece and was a little tough to get used to, but after a while it feels just right and the Dremel feels odd. It's a matter of what you grow accustomed to.

On the RT angle stuff......I tried dental tools and some would last for a while and others lasted mere minutes. Also an adapter had to be made to fit them to the Foredom flex shaft. Finally I just bit the bullet and bought the CC Specialty 182. It has been perfect, strong and smooth. It's small enough to use in 50cc and even smaller bores. The only issue I've had is that some burrs are too small to fit tightly in the collet. They do sell various collet sizes and the issue I had was most likely due to me buying cheap burrs in bulk.

 

[Jim Timber]

Just pulled the jug off my 2166 and have to eat a yummy dish of crow. Mmmmmm!

1/4" tools are too big to get in there.

This is my mini angle die grinder. That's what's left of a 2" disc on it, with a 1/4" shank burr to the top left.

 

[nmurph]

Foredom's are anything but hobby-grade. They are the standard tool for jewelers. There are differing grades, but even the cheaper ones will last for years.

I do agree about the CC 90° handpieces.

 

[WKEND LUMBERJAK]

+ 1 on Dremel as a starter tool. Buy used, and be sure to get one with a variable speed motor and as many bits as you can for free. The flexshaft attachment is useful. Once you get it, stay away from the genuine dremel bits. The aftermarket stuff is often better and certainly a lot cheaper. I use mine for so many things around the shop.

Shaun

Shaun who sells after market demel bits, manufacture? I have been doing some simple porting but wanting to take the next step. dremel bits are pretty $$.
Thanks Kenneth

 

[Jim Timber]

I don't know about grinding bits, but for burr's I'd try MSC, Enco, or grainger.

Browse Our Online Catalogs and Flyers

 

[Stihl 041S]

Foredom's are anything but hobby-grade. They are the standard tool for jewelers. There are differing grades, but even the cheaper ones will last for years.

I do agree about the CC 90° handpieces.

The amount of material a jeweler removes and the amount a porter removes is vastly different.

And as I said, there are different grades of Foredoms. What would be a fair price for a commercial one would be overpayment for the lower grades.

And what has been said, put your money in the handpieces.
The world has put more money into cheap electric reliable motors than right angle handprieces.

 

[Stihl 041S]

I don't know about grinding bits, but for burr's I'd try MSC, Enco, or grainger.

Browse Our Online Catalogs and Flyers

McMaster-Carr is another source.
A little more but large selection, delivery the next day(sometimes the same day!), and never a back order. If they say they have it when you order, it's on it's way to you, literly. Call back in 2 minutes and it's a new order.

 

[Jim Timber]

Yep, Mcmaster is a good one too, but a bit more spendy for the "we have it NOW" factor. If you needed it yesterday and the job is stalled, customer getting pissier by the hour - I'd call them first.

Also, get carbide burrs. The amount of silica in the aluminum makes it hard on HSS cutters even though you'd think it's such a soft material by alloy steel standards. They cost more, but I have burrs that are still sharp after porting dozens of engines.

 

[Stihl 041S]

Yep, Mcmaster is a good one too, but a bit more spendy for the "we have it NOW" factor. If you needed it yesterday and the job is stalled, customer getting pissier by the hour - I'd call them first.

Also, get carbide burrs. The amount of silica in the aluminum makes it hard on HSS cutters even though you'd think it's such a soft material by alloy steel standards. They cost more, but I have burrs that are still sharp after porting dozens of engines.

McMaster-Carr has great tutorials also about most things.
Right about the carbide, well worth it.

Diamond, carbide, sandpaper, Cratex, as required.

Get lube. And like cast bullets, don't use the hard crayon stuff. A toilet ring works well enough for porting and cast bullets. Nail in the wall, hang up the lube. I'll get the name of a great lube in a few minutes.

Diamond to do the Nickacil(spl?). Then carbide. Polish with Cratex. Remember, 4 different grades. Don't try to do too much with Cratex. Like a green wheel for "sharpening" carbide. Green wheels remove carbide, diamond wheels sharpen it.

Talk to your dentist for burrs, if you have the RPM. Remember, his tools were going over half a million RPMs over 40 years ago. There are tooll for that. But look at $5k.

 

[Stihl 041S]

A really great lube can be gotten at any Fastenal. The size of a tube of grease for greaseguns. About $10.00 a tube(around $6.00 at the Goodguy price). If you got friends near cut into thirds or quarters. A full tube lasts a LONG time. And we fill hoppers with grindings off the downdraft table.
Sent some to a longtime west coast builder. He said it worked better than anything he ever used. It really surprised him. And the cheapest.
Anyway......my$.02...

 

[Jim Timber]

I run things wet - wd40 or kroil. Helps with heat too. The last thing you want is a clogged cutter.

 

[Stihl 041S]

I run things wet - wd40 or kroil. Helps with heat too. The last thing you want is a clogged cutter.

The lube melts as heat is built. Stays there when the burr is hot.

WD-40 is handy to wash the swarf away also. Cools better than wax.

And too much heat means dull burr, too much pressure or maybe too many RPMs.

Or too fine a cutter.

Just sayin.....

 

[Jim Timber]

Heavy oil and wax hold the chip there too. Recutting chips is bad for cutters and efficiency. I can hold my bare fingers on my cutters - it's not getting hot enough to need coolant: the light oil just helps cool things too. Frankly, if I could see anything while doing it, I'd flood cool with water soluble oil just like I use in my machines. Cold parts are dimensionally stable. Just say'n.

 

[Stihl 041S]

The wax is a coating. Ever get weldment with metal removal when cutting aluminum ?
Cooolant flush while porting would be better than wax. Also impractical.

A tool holds chips mainly from chips sticking to the hot cutting edge, where it is introduced to the work piece, migrating back from the edge.

Wax will coat this surface, keeping the heat in the chip.

You mentioned cooling with WD-40. Why cool it if it can be touched with your hand?








With Madusa, did the carpet match the drapes????
If so ........YIKES!!!!!!
;-))

 

[Jim Timber]

The oil keeps things cool - the surface holds oil, you run the cutter across the surface and the oil finds its way to the cutter's edges. Yes, you need to keep applying it, but in doing so you flush the crap out too. I prefer that to wax or grease. Cutting aluminum dry will load up just about any cutter out there - fancy coatings or not: it's just a matter of time before a chip sticks.

I'm new to modding chainsaws, but this ain't my first rodeo in an engine, or working with metal for that matter. I have an AAS in CNC machining, and have my own machine shop with 6 machines (no hobby sized bull#&% either). Been making custom hot rod engine parts for a decade.

 

[Stihl 041S]

Jim the OP asked for help. I'm giving my experience.
15 years in aerospace R&D. Metal removal and fasteners.
For 12 years it has been metal removal in manufacturing.
We grind, with burrs, at least 5 gallons of swarf a week, maybe more.
.8 Hp Cleco grinders are the workhorse.
Brass, bronze, inconel, hastalloy you name it.

We use wax. Handy, effective, safe.

Like most, lazy. If there was something better or easier, it would be demanded.

I've beem working the rodeo circuit for over thirty years.
Got a trunk full of buckles.

No spite. You are lucky to have your own shop.
If I can ever help. PM me.

Pax

 

[nmurph]

The amount of material a jeweler removes and the amount a porter removes is vastly different.

And as I said, there are different grades of Foredoms. What would be a fair price for a commercial one would be overpayment for the lower grades.

And what has been said, put your money in the handpieces.
The world has put more money into cheap electric reliable motors than right angle handprieces.

I have sat at a jeweler's bench for many, many days. If you ever looked at the tray in the bottom of the bench you would understand the falicy of your statement. The amount of time a jeweler uses his rotary tool is so far ahead of what the average professional builder does it isn't even close. In a production setting they grind hard and heavy all day long.

Foredom doesn't make anything but commercial grade tools. There are heavier duty and stronger motors within their line, but every one is made for years of constant use. If you do manage to wear one out or break a part, they are easily rebuildable and cheap.

Foredom no longer sells a right angle hand piece. I will replace mine with a CC when it is no longer repairable.