paying dues

[treeman82]

I know this is an old topic, but I have to bring it up again.

I started dragging brush for a friend's tree company. Dragging brush for a few years, eventually turned into "go put on a saddle and spurs and set a rope in that tree." Went to vo-tech high school for urban forestry, went on to college for arbor and parks. Climbing skills progressed with time, from some branches over the lawn to large trees over houses. Licensed and certified arborist, fully insured, member ISA / TCIA / CTPA. I pay my taxes, and have a website. Haven't fully paid my dues in the business, but I'm young, I have plenty of time to learn more and to give back at the same time.

So with this in mind it bothers me when I see these schmucks running around who have never climbed a day in their lives, and they have more work than me. They are buying more equipment for themselves, and here I am struggling to keep my guy and myself busy. Of course they are paying their guys cash, they have no insurance, and they put ads in the paper "We will save you money by working for cheap, hire us." They have no skills other than being able to point and BS, maybe turn a key or pull a lever, but otherwise they don't know their trees, pests, knots, and so forth, but they can get the jobs.

I sat down not long ago with some peers and we were talking about enabling the competition, and how it has to stop. We were saying that we can't be helping these guys to do the work. We have to take a stand and say "you can't do the job that's in front of you without our help? Well we're not gonna help you anymore." Of course that's easier said than done when they've got the money.

Sorry, but I had to vent a bit here.

 

[TreeAce]

Dude....you need to get with lxt...he is fired up tonite. You guys are both right.

 

[treeman75]

Knowing how to do tree work is only half what you need to know to have a seccessful tree service. You need to learn how to sell a tree job. I know some great tree guys and awesome climbers but they dont know how to run a bussiness. What I have learned is stay in touch with your customers and marketing!

 

[Nailsbeats]

I know this is an old topic, but I have to bring it up again.

I started dragging brush for a friend's tree company. Dragging brush for a few years, eventually turned into "go put on a saddle and spurs and set a rope in that tree." Went to vo-tech high school for urban forestry, went on to college for arbor and parks. Climbing skills progressed with time, from some branches over the lawn to large trees over houses. Licensed and certified arborist, fully insured, member ISA / TCIA / CTPA. I pay my taxes, and have a website. Haven't fully paid my dues in the business, but I'm young, I have plenty of time to learn more and to give back at the same time.

So with this in mind it bothers me when I see these schmucks running around who have never climbed a day in their lives, and they have more work than me. They are buying more equipment for themselves, and here I am struggling to keep my guy and myself busy. Of course they are paying their guys cash, they have no insurance, and they put ads in the paper "We will save you money by working for cheap, hire us." They have no skills other than being able to point and BS, maybe turn a key or pull a lever, but otherwise they don't know their trees, pests, knots, and so forth, but they can get the jobs.

I sat down not long ago with some peers and we were talking about enabling the competition, and how it has to stop. We were saying that we can't be helping these guys to do the work. We have to take a stand and say "you can't do the job that's in front of you without our help? Well we're not gonna help you anymore." Of course that's easier said than done when they've got the money.

Sorry, but I had to vent a bit here.

So are you subbing for some shmuck, is that what you are saying here?

 

[treeman82]

I definately stay in touch with my clients, but marketing is something I am lacking on.
I've got the website, which is always a work in progress.
I'm listed on the TCIA ISA etc websites
Enrolled in something through my bank for internet shoppers
I donate to a few charity auctions
I've got signs on my truck, though they could be better.
This year I finally got shirts that I'm happy with
I'm friendly with a few landscapers, which definately helps... however I was friendly with one a few years ago, helped them out countless times, gave them wood to start their firewood operation. I hit a snag one time, they tried to stab me in the back. They tried to screw a few of my key clients over, I got really mad, to the point of almost trashing one of their trucks. Now they help a super low life competitor, more so than they would have ever helped me. Eventually they will get theirs though, mark my words.

In the past I've used job signs, but they only helped to bring in solicitors "You need printing??"
I've done direct mail in the past, and that was a complete waste of money every time.
Advertised in the local rag, and a few friends say it defiantely helps their businesses, but my experience with it was another waste of money... why advertise for being licensed, insured, memberships, etc. when these guys advertise working for cheap?

 

[treeman82]

So are you subbing for some shmuck, is that what you are saying here?

No, but I have in the past, now I will only climb for my 2 of my peers. One only calls if he needs an extra climber or if he gets hurt (guy is 52) the other rarely calls, he only takes what he can reach with the bucket, if he can't reach it he sends them to me... he's getting close to retirement. I think that by now the scum understand that it's better to not speak to or even look at me... aknowledging me means trouble for them... I don't care.

 

[prentice110]

So are you subbing for some shmuck, is that what you are saying here?

I hate to admit that I have to do this, and trust me, besides $, its never worth it. It beats sitting at home staring at the clock waiting for a phone to NOT ring.

 

[treeman82]

I just think that this business is one that you have to "pay dues" or "make bones" in order to be respectable. It bothers me that these guys haven't done even the slightest of these things, but they are reaping the rewards that they don't even come close to deserving. Like was said at the meeting, it's our own undoing... had we skilled people said F' you to these guys in the beginning when they asked for help, we'd be much better off now.

 

[prentice110]

I dont teach. I just get the job done. I feel your pain tho, all too much.

 

[IcePick]

Boo effin hoo.

 

[Sagetown]

People that don't want to pay for the proper service have a tendency to be real picky about how the work is done. The way things are today, you'd think guys like that would be getting sued . Then, again, that business is a swinging door. They're coming in as fast as they're going out.

 

[Bearcreek]

Maybe you're operating in an area that won't support the kind of service you provide. I work in several towns where people just want the tree not to fall on their house. Beyond that, they can't afford people that have every cert in the book. Insurance companies in my area will only pay someone for damages and removal after the tree has already fallen on something, so people often just wait for that to happen. I also work in other areas where people want and can afford quality tree care rather than just removing hazard trees. Bottom line is, some places can not support a tree service that only does high end type of work. Ultimately, you can't cheat market conditions. That's just the way it is.

 

[tree MDS]

Boo effin hoo.

Lol!

I thought it was just common sense, after like your first year in business, not to help any dumb bastard competitor that can't cut his own ####ing trees out!

Me and "my peers" got together.... lmfao!

 

[prentice110]

Me and "my peers" got together.... lmfao!

please elaborate.

 

[tree MDS]

please elaborate.

It just struck as a bit snooty sounding, is all.

Better?

 

[prentice110]

It just struck as a bit snooty sounding, is all.

Better?

I was just wondering if you and some other guys partnered up or something.

 

[tree MDS]

I was just wondering if you and some other guys partnered up or something.

Not me. Partners are for dancing... something else I don't do. lol.

 

[prentice110]

Not me. Partners are for dancing... something else I don't do. lol.

well said

 

[treeman82]

It just struck as a bit snooty sounding, is all.

Better?

Would you prefer the term "fellow professionals?"

 

[arborpros]

I feel your pain. But as someone said earlier, they are coming as fast as they are going. I saw a guy today packing up and hitting the road after being in town for about a year. He has bought a nice truck and a dingo and obviously does pretty well but he sure looked pissed when he had to put fuel in his trucks and hit the road. He was screaming at his hoosier employees pretty bad. I say good luck somewhere else.

As far as how to get business and marketing, mass mailers are an absolute waste of time. People hardly ever even look at the mailer before puting it in their bird cage to collect crap or throw it out. I just paid $500 to be put on every score card at one of the local gold clubs. They have 35,000 rounds of golf played per year so all I have to do is get one person to call me and that is paid for. That and I have a verbal agreement with the golf course that if they have any tree work that I am the first one they are going to call. I like my odds on that one.

The best advertising I have found is to put a wrap or atleast get some nice graphics on your truck. You are literally driving a billboard around and in STL, with normal driving, a commercial vehicle will get as many as 40,000 views per day. 40,000 people see your logo and it only takes one small to medium sized job to pay for those graphics. They work and they work well but keep it simple. A consumer only has around 5 seconds to read your truck. Name and number are most important. Don't forget the tailgates of your trucks. That is the most over looked area to use. People are behind you all the time pissed off that you are driving so slow looking for an address anyway. Use it to your advantage. There is a company locally that is giving out free tailgate wraps with your company logo and your info. Free. I had one done on my truck and all I paid was a $32.50 set up fee. If I had to pay for the wrap itself it would have been $150 plus the $32.50 but they are giving them for free so $32.50 set up fee is not too bad. I don't know if you all would even be interested but my tailgate wrap has gotten me a few jobs and has paid for itself 100 time over. Here's the website. VINYL IMAGES PRESENTS THE TAILGATE TAKEOVER!