Sequoia, or Sequoia swing???

[masiman]

.....The question is this: looking at the straps in this picture, on an UNWEIGHTED saddle, tell me honestly, where are the leg straps to go when the saddle is weighted?

....

I'm imagining something like this:

Linky in case embed does not work:
Panic Pete

 

[beowulf343]

Any other report, Beowulf? You're a big guy, aren't you?

Ok, since you asked. On of my buddies that i work with picked up a swing a few weeks back, and after using it two days, went on vacation for a week. After some serious begging, some promises made, and some threats issued, he let me borrow it for the week. After probably close to fifty climbs here's my thoughts on it:

First off, i've been a pinnacle man for a long time and this is the first new saddle that i've given serious thought to replacing the pinnacle. But those upper d's are just too small. I hang too much crap off them and there is just not enough room. It is extremely comfortable, although it probably took about 15 climbs before it was dialed in and i was still messing with adjustments at the end of the week. And i am a big guy, this was probably one of the best fitting saddles i've worn-actually had to cinch it down. I wish the belt was a little more sturdier, the saw clips a bit heavier duty, and it came with suspenders (not sure if it's an available feature or not.) I also wasn't a huge fan of the batten adjustment-seemed kind of chintzy to me. I did like the extra two equipment loops on each side, could probably move the stuff off my d's to them if i went with this saddle.
My biggest adjustment problem was simply due to the fact that i'm used to a different setup on the lower d's on a pinnacle. I've always disliked bridges or saddles that i have to climb into. I started using the rings on the swing as i would the lower d's on my pinnacle (rope on one, split tail on the other to split the rope.) If it were my saddle, i'd get rid of the bridge and rings and put in maybe a teardrop biner on each side. Something that would allow me to bring that lower suspension point together when needed, but would allow me to separate them when i'm chunking. I did like the fact that the lower suspension points were up higher than on my pinnacle and made it feel like a second lanyard at the waist when chunking instead of a second lanyard half way down my thighs like the pinnacle does. Overall, very good saddle, just not my style.

(Sorry if there is any confusion-i can do it better than i can write about doing it.)

 

[lync]

I have a like new (climbed 1 time in my back yard) Sequoia SRT size 2 for sale if your interested.
Corey

 

[lync]

Sorry!! I missed the post that you bought the swing. Good luck.

 

[oldirty]

Ok, since you asked. On of my buddies that i work with picked up a swing a few weeks back, and after using it two days, went on vacation for a week. After some serious begging, some promises made, and some threats issued, he let me borrow it for the week. After probably close to fifty climbs here's my thoughts on it:

First off, i've been a pinnacle man for a long time and this is the first new saddle that i've given serious thought to replacing the pinnacle. But those upper d's are just too small. I hang too much crap off them and there is just not enough room. It is extremely comfortable, although it probably took about 15 climbs before it was dialed in and i was still messing with adjustments at the end of the week. And i am a big guy, this was probably one of the best fitting saddles i've worn-actually had to cinch it down. I wish the belt was a little more sturdier, the saw clips a bit heavier duty, and it came with suspenders (not sure if it's an available feature or not.) I also wasn't a huge fan of the batten adjustment-seemed kind of chintzy to me. I did like the extra two equipment loops on each side, could probably move the stuff off my d's to them if i went with this saddle.
My biggest adjustment problem was simply due to the fact that i'm used to a different setup on the lower d's on a pinnacle. I've always disliked bridges or saddles that i have to climb into. I started using the rings on the swing as i would the lower d's on my pinnacle (rope on one, split tail on the other to split the rope.) If it were my saddle, i'd get rid of the bridge and rings and put in maybe a teardrop biner on each side. Something that would allow me to bring that lower suspension point together when needed, but would allow me to separate them when i'm chunking. I did like the fact that the lower suspension points were up higher than on my pinnacle and made it feel like a second lanyard at the waist when chunking instead of a second lanyard half way down my thighs like the pinnacle does. Overall, very good saddle, just not my style.

(Sorry if there is any confusion-i can do it better than i can write about doing it.)

you make good coin. call up tree stuff. order the large miniboss for 250$. rings are just like the pinnacle.

best 250 you'll spend this year.

 

[Tree Machine]

Treestuff.com is where I bought the Swing. I love that place!

 

[oldirty]

Treestuff.com is where I bought the Swing. I love that place!

tree stuff does kick ass. i just bought them labonville chainsaw boots and a sweet husqvarna rain jacket thing and some sweet gloves from them.

 

[masiman]

you make good coin. call up tree stuff. order the large miniboss for 250$. rings are just like the pinnacle.

best 250 you'll spend this year.

OD, I did not see the miniboss at Treestuff. They have some old stock?

 

[tree md]

The Mini Boss is a good saddle. I am with TM though, the D's are not big enough for my liking and it will need a little customization. Once you get it dialed in it is the most comfortable saddle I have worn. Treestuff probably sold out. A google search might turn up some results.

I really have no problem with what anyone else wears to work in. If leg loops tickle your fancy then more power to ya. I have just sat by for years listening and reading how leg loop harnesses make you so much more mobile and didn't say nothing about that. Realizing that batten seat saddles are becoming less and less available to choose from I decided to open my mouth and call BS before manufactures stopped making them altogether for the tree industry. The notion that they make someone more mobile in a tree is pure hogwash. At least for me. If someone else can get around a tree better in one great but they feel like some kind of chastity belt/torture device to me. And I have tried to use them.

When I would hear someone say that the leg loop saddle is better because you can get around the tree better I would think that maybe I was doing something wrong. I had an employer buy one for me and have tried to use a couple of other leg loop saddles. None were comfortable for me. I went back to a seat saddle every time. The only time I want weight on my hips from the belt is when I am stationary, making a cut and lanyard in. Otherwise it becomes uncomfortable and makes my hips sore, decreasing production in the long run. If I am moving through the tree, ascending, rappelling, leaning into ropes to make lateral movements, I don't want the weight on the back of my legs with the leg loops. I want it evenly distributed across my butt. If you are doing heavy removals, having to spend long hours in a tree and lower big wood it is fatiguing enough. The last thing I want is a harness that is going to cut off circulation in my thighs, pinch my jewels and cause me to have to adjust my package every time I make a move. The very names sound different conveying different meaning to me. Something you sit in is referred to as a saddle and brings comfort to mind. Something you strap on is called a harness and does nothing to bring any comfort to my mind.

If you like a harness and can move through a tree well with one great! More power to you! But I think it's time to dispel the rumor that a tree saddle with a seat is cumbersome and imply that someone who wears one cannot get through the tree as well as someone wearing a leg loop harness. That is pure bunk and I've got 20 years tree time to back it up.

 

[canopyboy]

I know they're more popular with the rec climbing crowd (in fact they're by far the majority), but even Wesspur had a guy on the front two years ago wearing a New Tribe saddle. I eventually got one of those. Leg straps themselves are loose in the design, so they rarely ride up on you. Leg pads are huge, and comfortable to sit in for hours. The leg straps also have a sliding D arrangement which is kind of like half-way to a full bridge arrangement. They're light, under $300, seem to hold up for me quite well, and they'll customize 'em for you if you don't like any of their standard models.

I think more people in the business ought to give 'em a try. But to each their own, right?

Edit: Actually, come to think of it -- if you want comfort, taking the lead from a bunch of soft rec climbers isn't that bad of an idea.

 

[Tree Machine]

There's a lot of rec climbers that are pretty hard core.

A big difference is you don't see rec climbers with a chainsaw full of gas and oil hanging off their saddle, a rack of slideline slings, a Silky saw or two, various other biners, a belay device, ascender and maybe a wirecore flipline.

A climbing arborist kinda has to carry gear. And I don't mean a couple power bars and a camelbak. I mean gear, the stuff we use to make our living. Don't even get me started on gear related to cabling.

There was a previous post about how a saddle should ride below the hips. I tried that today, with an average setup of gear and found while climbing up through limbs and such, tending slack (on tree more than on rope) the saddle.... you guessed it... wanted to peel off. Carrying weight on the saddle is not really an option for most. Some of the moves we do, horizontals, negs and inverts, that saddle has to keep you in it. Any imaginable work positioning has to be accommodated by the saddle or it limits you and you end up accommodating what it allows you.

 

[Tree Machine]

I think it's time to dispel the rumor that a tree saddle with a seat is cumbersome and imply that someone who wears one cannot get through the tree as well as someone wearing a leg loop harness. That is pure bunk and I've got 20 years tree time to back it up.

Thank you for that. I can usually sense when someone makes the statement about bosun saddles limiting your mobility that they heard that from somewhere, but have never themselves actually tried climbing in one-- otherwise they wouldn't be making the statement.

This is year 17 for me, but only 12 years in bosun seat saddles. The first five I did what the harness would allow me.

My vacation saddle is a leg loop saddle, my rock harness is leg strap and my caving harness is leg strap. I'm thankful I don't have to spend much time on-rope on these, or carry much in the way of weight. In the rock and cave harnesses, there is no work positioning involved, no fliplines. I get into leg loop harnesses enough to feel some real clearcut differences, namely sweaty thighs and extremely frustrating inefficiencies with sitback. The Ergovation about drove me crazy with this issue, but it's just part of leg loop harnesses that you have to accept.

 

[tree md]

TM, you climb too hard bro! If you could tie in at the point you are at on that one you could rig and swing much bigger pieces (if not the whole limb) from the same point!!!

Just kidding buddy, I have no idea what was under you or what situation you were in in that pic. Thank you for illustrating the point illustriously in that pic though. I would not even want to think about having to work in that position with leg straps digging into my legs...

 

[tree md]

Thank you for that. I can usually sense when someone makes the statement about bosun saddles limiting your mobility that they heard that from somewhere, but have never themselves actually tried climbing in one-- otherwise they wouldn't be making the statement.

This is year 17 for me, but only 12 years in bosun seat saddles. The first five I did what the harness would allow me.

My vacation saddle is a leg loop saddle, my rock harness is leg strap and my caving harness is leg strap. I'm thankful I don't have to spend much time on-rope on these, or carry much in the way of weight. In the rock and cave harnesses, there is no work positioning involved, no fliplines. I get into leg loop harnesses enough to feel some real clearcut differences, namely sweaty thighs and extremely frustrating inefficiencies with sitback. The Ergovation about drove me crazy with this issue, but it's just part of leg loop harnesses that you have to accept.

TM, when I first started climbing in 91 every climber I knew was working in a butt seat tree saddle. It was about three years later that the leg loop harnesses started becoming popular. Believe me, I sure gave them a try because everyone else was but I always came back to my seat saddle. I do heavy work and the positions I get into a leg strap harness will flat eat your lunch.

 

[Tree Machine]

Here, and don't blaze me because of the flipline not in use, or no helmet.
This was a much earlier day, 2001 as the image date says.

Very tight zone, sensitive vegetation, over a house, over a fence, big sandstone stepping stones, wires, this job had it all. Firewood blocked that animal down. Very happy to have the mobility and when the 395 had to be put into use and I put on spikes, glad the saddle stayed on me, secure.

I have no idea why I crowned out this entire tree spikeless. I guess a nice, high tie-in point and knowing I'd be spending a lot of time in them later, blocking down the stick.

 

[Tree Machine]

Another old picture with a new caption. I don't know what point I'm trying to make. This was when the Fly had just come out and I was giving it an SRT run-thru.

Again, no helmet. I was trying out the Peltor Alert headset and didn't have it set up for helmet.

 

[tree md]

LOL! I'm loving that dude!

I have family in Southern IN. I'm going there in June for a family reunion. Would love to hook up with you sometime. I'd like to just run your ropes for a day. Maybe we can make that happen sometime!

 

[Tree Machine]

I rig from up in the tree, MD. I've never had a groundguy work ropes, just unhook limbs. I tend to cut the firewood up in the tree. I know, non-traditional. Very small chipper and guys standing in line for the wood so cutting firewood is what I do. If I have to do it on the ground or in the air, I generally prefer to do it in the air. It's just what I've become accustomed to and I truly, really enjoy it. It means I can use a totally green groundguy and he has no saw duties, or lowering duties. Unclipping a rope is the responsibility, and dragging brush. This means I can use just about anyone.



MAYBE I'll be into the Sequoia Swing this weekend. Today was a sappy set of pine takedowns. I just did not want to de-virginate a new saddle in that manner.


I've been thinking about how to set up the Swing. My current saddle (Buckingham Versatile) does not have a rope bridge, but rather a heavy band-strap style bridge and I modded the front hardware to accomodate this band, and it has worked REALLY well for me, a lot of added versatility. I made it a permanent up-front piece of hardware. Permanent because you always need a connector up front anyway, so I sort of 'idealized' what I thought would give more advantage than just a biner, then I permanently mounted it. The first pic is the piece almost finished and dry-fitting it.

This second picture I added a horn for soft-locks, to aid in the use of bare-bones belay devices. The rivet through the roller was permanently peened and I've never looked back. This really worked nicely. I think I've used this for 6 or 7 years now. I may have to learn how to climb like the rest of you without it.

The reason I share these pictures is with the new Swing saddle, I will lose this advantage. Maybe someone can share a way to set up the frontware for the best advantage using the rope bridge. I'm open to ideas.

 

[tree md]

I rig from up in the tree, MD. I've never had a groundguy work ropes, just unhook limbs. I tend to cut the firewood up in the tree. I know, non-traditional. Very small chipper and guys standing in line for the wood so cutting firewood is what I do. If I have to do it on the ground or in the air, I generally prefer to do it in the air. It's just what I've become accustomed to and I truly, really enjoy it. It means I can use a totally green groundguy and he has no saw duties, or lowering duties. Unclipping a rope is the responsibility, and dragging brush. This means I can use just about anyone.

I do the same a lot of the time. I can totally handle all of my rigging operations from topside if I have to. I have used a lot of green guys as well. I just hired a new one last week but besides him my least experienced groundie has been with me for 3 years now. I take small bites when I have to but am fortunate to have guys that know how to run my ropes and allow me to take big pieces now (like I was taught to do from the beginning). I will often take big pieces and handle the lowering from topside while my guys cut it up and move it as I lower it to the ground. I truly enjoy it as well. I'd have to to be in it for as long as I have been. Sometimes it's the money but here lately it's just because it's what I do and don't really know anything else. I mean, what else am I going to do? Learn how to do another trade? Flip burgers? Work somewhere for a weekly paycheck??? I make more money at this then anything else I could do and after being the boss for so long I am forever ruined for working for someone else. I couldn't even imagine getting up in the morning and heading to an office somewhere to work for someone else. I make my own office in the sky...

 

[Tree Machine]

You're my brother from another mother.