Sequoia, or Sequoia swing???

[swede11]

Anyone know which is better?

I know the swing is a tad more expensive, but I'm wondering if it's worth it.

If you think either of these are no good, I'm open to other recomendations.

Also, would I be better off ordering it online, or trying to get one through my local hardware store?

 

[Josh777]

After checking it out, the only real advantage to the swing is its extra comfort level while doing extended hang time. Even with it's separate leg loops the swing will still be more restrictive in movement than the standard sequoia though. Best of luck in making your decision! -Josh
:greenchainsaw:

 

[D Mc]

Anyone know which is better?....
Also, would I be better off ordering it online, or trying to get one through my local hardware store?

With saddles you really should try before you buy. The Petzl Sequoia line are popular and well made saddles but that does not mean they will work the best or be the most comfortable for you. Body types and climbing styles will have a strong influence on what ultimately is the best for you.
I use the Sequoia SRT and for me it is very nice.

Dave

 

[Josh777]

Also, would I be better off ordering it online, or trying to get one through my local hardware store?

Definitely better to try it on if you have the opportunity. But once you get sized up, find the best price whether it be online or otherwise and buy. - Josh

 

[tree md]

I started out working in a saddle with a butt sling and that is what I became accustomed to. Never could get used to leg loop saddles. On large removals (which I mostly do) and crane work I love having the comfort of a seat saddle. I'm using an older model Petzl Navaho Mini boss with a stiff batten seat and love that thing. I was in it for 6 hours today and never got cramped or pinched. When I need to take a load off for a minute I just hit the recline button in that thing and take a rest. I will often have my lunch sent up to me and take my lunch break in the tree. Not restrictive to me at all. I get all around my trees.

 

[oldirty]

its nonsense, who ever started the rumor of a stiff seat slowing you down.

climber once told me his sequoia squeezed his hips when he was hanging around.

the swing was going to be my next saddle purchase i think but i caught a deal on the saddle i am flying currently so maybe next time.

i'm gonna fill you in on a little secret. the swing actually evolved from the miniboss and another saddle. you will be getting a good saddle if you swing it.

 

[tree md]

Kind of funny you mention that OD. One thing I have noticed since I have gone with the stiff batten seat is my hips no longer hurt. When I used a butt strap/seat sling saddle my hips would hurt after long hours in it. No more soreness with the stiff seat.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm a major batten seat saddle kinda guy. Like tree MD says, there is no problem getting around, and as OldDirty says, someone started a rumor..... actually, I think it is just a commonly held misinformation that somehow a stiff-seat saddle it more restrictive than a leg-strap saddle.

I'll tell ya what restricts my movement, having leg straps chafe my thighs and the straps pulling up into my nuts. THAT restricts what I can do. I find that when climbing with leg-strap saddles I have to climb and accommodate the saddle where with a butt-board seat, I can do anything I want because straps aren't getting yanked up into places they shouldn't be.

With a batten board saddle, the pulling forces come from under your rump, and the leg straps just work to hold the batten in place- under your rump.

Below is a recent picture. Old, Buckingham versatile, a years-old, thoroughly beaten warrior, and in behind it a virgin Sequoia Swing by Petzl. The new saddle has been in there over a month and I have yet to open it up and de-flower it properly. I'm mildly apprehensive.


I try to imagine a saddle that will perform better than what I'm currently using. Mine just needs to be retired properly, so I had to choose something new and I don't like going the same route. After having tried a number of leg-strap saddles, I just can't go that way. They were just uncomfortable, like I don't know how climbing professionals do it. Ya just put up with it, I guess.

I like to go home at the end of the day with all testes intact. I just have to assume others deal with the pinching of the nads and just don't say anything about it. For me, a bosun seat saddle is the clear and undisputed choice. There are just very few to choose from.

 

[D Mc]

After having tried a number of leg-strap saddles, I just can't go that way. They were just uncomfortable, like I don't know how climbing professionals do it. Ya just put up with it, I guess.

I just have to assume others deal with the pinching of the nads and just don't say anything about it. For me, a bosun seat saddle is the clear and undisputed choice.

So everybody who climbs in a leg strap saddle spends their whole day getting their balls crushed and are too stupid to realize if they switched to a bosun seat saddle, that all of a sudden life would be great?

Really?

What you stated is a reality for you. But for many others a proper fitting leg strap saddle is entirely comfortable and practical for doing tree work. I started off with a Bry-Dan saddle, these were custom made saddles to each individual at that time. Very specific fit requirements. You could climb all day, doing whatever the job required and, most of the time, not even realize you were wearing a saddle. My Petzl Sequoia has been adjusted for my body type in the same manner. I have no discomfort and total mobility.

I repeat, saddles are an integral part of a climbing system and body type. If everybody climbed exactly the same, with exactly the same body types, we would all be using one type of saddle.

That's not the case.

Dave

 

[Tree Machine]

So everybody who climbs in a leg strap saddle spends their whole day getting their balls crushed and are too stupid to realize if they switched to a bosun seat saddle, that all of a sudden life would be great?

Really?

Yea, that's basically it, only without the sarcastic edge.

Probably not 'everybody', and you don't spend all day getting your balls crushed; just annoying moments. Maybe after a few good footlocks you have to stop and pull a strap down out of your crotch. If you have to do this ONCE, you will eventually have to have done this thousands of times.

And most often it is not a ball-crusher, but rather an uncomfortable pressure, or a pinch. See, with leg strap saddles, most all of the support comes from the attachment of the leg straps to the saddle. That simply means, without argument, that when you weight your saddle the bands around your thighs take most of the forces. As long as gravity is functional, and you're moving upward against it you have opposing forces, like your mass against those leg straps.

Of course, maybe this may just be a reality for me.

Anyway, on ANY saddle, your support comes from beneath, and the back strap is to keep the system balanced- unless you bust horizontal moves and you'll feel the forces then becoming shared by the back strap, or if you go inverted, you can make it so all the weight and support is on the back strap.

But for the most part, when a climber weights the saddle almost all the support comes from the leg straps. I'll share more details, but for now, is what I'm sharing realistic?

I don't want to 'promote' any one saddle or style or brand or whatever. I'd like to point out the plusses and minuses. We can then have legitimate information and make informed choices.

This false notion of a bosun saddle limiting your motion is what you hear from guys who have never used one. A casual comment, based on assumption, cast out there to our readership can be believed as truth by the reader. I'm not playing favorites, but I will take a stand against misleading or inaccurate information.

 

[2FatGuys]

Batten board seat.... leg straps... whatever!!!

The proper saddle is a personal issue depending on body shape, work type, past experiences, etc.

As a former rock climber (started a LONG time ago, when I was 15), I became acustomed to the "custom" fit of a tied swiss seat (WAY before the modern simple harnesses were available). The transition to tree work later was tough, since at the time, "belts" were the common (at least locally) method of tying in. I preferred the security of more than a belt. I used several of the early saddles (butt strap, seat, etc.) but found the leg strap saddles to more closely feel like the climbing harnesses I learned on.

My current "go-to" saddle is the Buckingham Master Deluxe. Properly fitted, I almost forget you have it on at times. I've never had a problem with the straps sliding up into the nether regions... but then again, I have thighs... not twigs (I used to race mountain bikes). The way the leg straps are made on the Master Deluxe, they are fully adjustable in girth, rotation, and height. If you spend a little time fitting the saddle to you, it won't shift. Yes, it's more bulky that the Petzl saddles... but I like the WIDE backband and the breathable padding.

Again... to each, his own... but I just wanted to clarify that if you have problems with a leg-strap saddle, you probably haven't taken the time to fit it properly.

 

[D Mc]

Probably not 'everybody', and you don't spend all day getting your balls crushed; just annoying moments.

That describes a day in the life of an active guy wearing pants. Adjusting, hiking up, readjusting the belt, all things done as a matter of course when bending over, climbing ladders, etc. I'm not seeing a lot of options here, at least not that I am willing to take.

But for the most part, when a climber weights the saddle almost all the support comes from the leg straps. I'll share more details, but for now, is what I'm sharing realistic?

Statements with this content are probably why you find saddles with leg straps so uncomfortable. Most of the weight should NOT be on the leg straps. When ascending the tree on rope, a good deal of pressure should be on the waist belt. A properly fitted leg strap saddle will allow the waist belt to sit low on the hips, below your pants belt. In most cases, this will also require shoulder straps. But the fit and balance point, between the hip and leg straps should be evenly distributed. This will allow you to use your saddle for more than just comfortably ascending or sitting between cuts. It is a work positioning saddle. Configured like this, it is very comfortable for actually climbing the tree.

I don't want to 'promote' any one saddle or style or brand or whatever. I'd like to point out the plusses and minuses. We can then have legitimate information and make informed choices.

I have used bosun seat, butt strap and leg strap saddles. I choose to use a leg strap saddle, because for my style of work and body type, it is the most comfortable. I have nothing against the other styles of saddles and would encourage anybody to use whatever works the best for them.


Dave

 

[Tree Machine]

Those are all good points.

I have been in the market for a new saddle for about a year and a half. Mine was, and is just fine, but I've been in it 7 years and really would like to get something new, put that old stud horse out to pasture, so to speak.

I researched saddles and did some hiring of climbers who wore $500 saddles.
I followed saddle threads and contributed to a few.
I've tried saddles on at the saw shop.
I've tried saddles on at the TCIA Expo and hung in them for awhile.
I was fortunate enough to have had an Ergovation loaned to me for three months where it did everything but rain duty.

The search for the ultimate saddle continues. Through it all, I have learned a lot, and though it took awhile in the Ergovation (a leg-strap saddle), going back and forth between them during a given day, I learned the intimate differences.

I wish I knew everything, but I don't.

I really wanted to fall in love with the Ergovation, but I didn't. It was comfy as all get-out to walk around in, I would even drive between jobs wearing it. But climbing, I would just keep asking myself, "What is wrong?" Frequent re-situating the leg straps in the middle of an ascent, pinching, raw chafing around the thigh. I found myself modifying the way I climb to avoid the pain. You shouldn't have to do that.

 

[Tree Machine]

2fatguys says

but I just wanted to clarify that if you have problems with a leg-strap saddle, you probably haven't taken the time to fit it properly.

I can't count how many time I adjusted this and that on the Ergo. It is touted as being one of the most highly adjustable and thus, personally fittable saddles anywhere. I worked and adjusted this saddle inside and out. I really wanted it to work because I was looking to purchase and certain features I just adored. I will spare you the picture of the rub-rash on my thighs after a long, hot day in the canopy, though.

I have a question for 2fatguys. Here is a picture, a manufacturer's photo. I chose this saddle to show because it was my 2nd saddle in my climbing career and I used it for couple years. I retired it to be my vacation saddle, kept in Florida, and I use it when I work down there. I retired it early because I was so uncomfortable with the leg straps issue. The question is this: looking at the straps in this picture, on an UNWEIGHTED saddle, tell me honestly, where are the leg straps to go when the saddle is weighted?

Most of the weight should NOT be on the leg straps. When ascending the tree on rope, a good deal of pressure should be on the waist belt. A properly fitted leg strap saddle will allow the waist belt to sit low on the hips, below your pants belt.

Ah, haaa. This could be where I am going wrong. An efficient footlock keeps you sorta vertical, in-line with the rope, that's where I was getting the most problem. I was doing a lot of cabling in the Ergo era, doing a lot of sit-time in the saddle and yes, I felt the need to lean back to share the pressure between the thighs and back belt. It was unfortunate that I couldn't do the actual tree work, cabling and work positioning while leaning back. I don't work a chainsaw in a reclined position.

There is the chance that I'm doing it all wrong.

I'm looking for solutions.

 

[oldirty]

you need to hunt down the last navajo miniboss, man. that saddle is legit. honest to goodness perfection, imo. it has that ventral attachment point you seem to love and it also has similar floppy d ring setup like the pinnacle, but shorter. i was using a rope for a bridge on those d rings but got sick of looking at it when hanging from the crane. i ended up using an old spreader snap that i bought along time ago but never used till now. works the balls.

i got the last medium from tree stuff.

 

[beowulf343]

Sequoia swing is very comfortable-but the upper d's on them suck.

 

[Tree Machine]

I've retired a couple saddles with the single, ventral tie-in. I personally prefer a sliding bridge, which, is the only reason I didn't get a mini-boss. That, and the D's sucked.

I feel that Petzl felt the demand for bosuns on the increase and made an attempt to upgrade the Miniboss by adding a width-adjustable seat and a sliding bridge.

I agree, Dirty, the miniboss is a well-built saddle. I wrote Petzl a few years ago and asked if they could put a couple Pirhanas in place of the D-rings. I needed SOMETHING above what my current saddle had. I would be giving up the sliding bridge, downgrading form what I was using. I needed an upgrade somewhere. They declined.

 

[2FatGuys]

I have a question for 2fatguys. Here is a picture, a manufacturer's photo. ....The question is this: looking at the straps in this picture, on an UNWEIGHTED saddle, tell me honestly, where are the leg straps to go when the saddle is weighted?

OK... I'll play along (even though this is NOT the saddle I recommended). I'm not going to defend this saddle. There's a reason I chose it's more thought out brother "Master Classic Deluxe". Look at how the waist / hip band cinches down on the saddle in your pic. When you adjust the belt tightness, it changes your attachment points AND raises and lowers the leg loop attachments. So for some body shapes, in order to get the waist / hip belt properly tightened, you are already preloading the "tender zones". With the saddle I mentioned, the Buckingham Master Classic Deluxe,

the waist / hip belt is adjusted independent of the hanging bridge (OK.. it's not a TRUE bridge, but the only name I could describe it by). So you can adjust the 8 tie-in points to be as close to your body or as far away as you like for your climbing style. Adjustment of this also allows the front attachment of the leg loops to be raised or lowered to properly position them based on your specific waist-to-thigh dimension. It's one of a very few that don't force a 5'-4" climber and a 6'-2" climber to use the same dimension. Another feature difference between the Master Classic and the Master Classic Deluxe is how the leg loop pads are attached to the leg loops. Look at your rear-view pic. the pads are sewn to the loops. As you move around and the straps move, the pads end up getting tugged around also. Over time, this can put them in "awkward" positions. Now, look at the Deluxe rear-view pic. The pads are sewn to webbing loops and the leg loops pass through them. This allows your leg loop pads (your foundation) to remain stationary as you move and rotate in the tree or up the rope. If your leg loops are adjust to the proper tightness, the pads stay in place and the "huevos" are not at risk.

Now, continue reading your own post:

Ah, haaa. This could be where I am going wrong. An efficient footlock keeps you sorta vertical, in-line with the rope, that's where I was getting the most problem. I was doing a lot of cabling in the Ergo era, doing a lot of sit-time in the saddle and yes, I felt the need to lean back to share the pressure between the thighs and back belt. It was unfortunate that I couldn't do the actual tree work, cabling and work positioning while leaning back. I don't work a chainsaw in a reclined position.

There is the chance that I'm doing it all wrong.

D MC explained the need for proper adjustment of the waist / hip belt. It is crucial with the leg loop type saddle to distribute the load between waist and legs. On the Deluxe, that is easy to do since the tie-in points are adjusted separately and can fly out away from (or pull close into) your body to adjust that "center of gravity".

I'm looking for solutions.

Solutions vary from person to person. There are some great climbers using each type of saddle. I don't condemn either type. I just know what works for me. [An interesting thing to note: the saddle you showed and the saddle I show are both made by Buckingham. The one I show is the "Deluxe" model. Do you think that, maybe, Buckingham knows the "Master Classic" could be improved? Hence... The Master Classic Deluxe! Or.. maybe everyone doesn't need the added features of the Deluxe.]

 

[Tree Machine]

Excellent post!

WELL-DONE, 2fatguys. I hope the readership appreciates that half as much as I do.

I admit, we went off-track a bit (this is a sequoia/sequoia swing thread)
but the information there is gold to a guy who's really serious about this industry and hates the saddle he is in and doesn't want to buy a saddle with the same problems.



That's inspiring.


Maybe today is the day I pull the Sequoia Swing out of its bag. I just get a queasy feeling about it. It helps to hear that Beowulf finds it comfortable.

Any other report, Beowulf? You're a big guy, aren't you?

 

[swede11]

I admit, we went off-track a bit (this is a sequoia/sequoia swing thread)
but the information there is gold to a guy who's really serious about this industry and hates the saddle he is in and doesn't want to buy a saddle with the same problems.

I suppose this thread did go a little off track, but I've found it all useful. I needed to get a new saddle; the one i'd been using is due to retire.
I decided to go with the swing. I tried it out last night, and again today. So far, I'm liking it. Unfortunetly, I haven't used a leg-strap saddle, so I can't compare it; hopefully down the road I can. But I think I'm going to be happy with the swing.

The strangest thing about it so far for me is the attachment bridge that allows you to slide a little one way or the other. It may take me a little time to adjust to that!! But I suspect I may like it, too. Time will tell.

Thanks to all of you for your input.

Tree Machine, if you do try yours out, please let me know what you think of it.