Sharpening

[NSMaple1]

Yes did all that a couple months ago. Plus it cuts the same way (to the left) with bar flipped either way.

I haven't searched again since then, but I searched quite a bit then and couldn't find the answer to which way excessive hook will pull the cut. Or does it push it? Therein is the rub. Think I found conflicting opinions. It's easy (but maybe a bit tedious) to get your teeth all the same length, and the rakers all the same height, and make sure the angles are right - but consistent hook is a bit harder, side to side, for me at least, since I seem to put more down pressure on one side than the other.

I did get a new chain for it back in the summer but the stubborness now has me wanting to figure this out once and for all, before I swap chains, and get it working right again, and work it until it has near no teeth left.

 

[Philbert]

I would just be speculating.

If a chain is more aggressive on one side (say the Left) for any reason, it would seem that it would 'eat' more wood on that side, and 'pivot' on the other side (curving to the Right side in this case).

Take a chain. Intentionally put excess hook in one side, and experiment? Let us know.

Philbert

 

[DSW]

I'm not saying bar issues that cause a cut to favor one side don't happen but in my experience it's typically the chain.

I've also found cutter length differences, within reason, rarely cause it as well.

I would say one side is dull as hell.

 

[NSMaple1]

After my sessions with this issue, I have convinced myself the only difference one side to the other is the amount of hook. At least in my case with this one chain. I have no problem recognizing dull as hell teeth when I see them, that isn't the situation here. I'm not sure I will be using it again this year, after my sharpening session of Sunday, so it might be a while before I see how that did. Although the stubborn curiosity might see me taking a go at a random piece of big wood. Randomly. Somewhere.

I think I will also be trashing a chain or two next year, I have my eyes on some old stumps & roots at our summer place that need gotten rid of. So might take that opportunity to see how purposely filing a chain wrong a certain way will cause it to act.

 

[NSMaple1]

I would just be speculating.

If a chain is more aggressive on one side (say the Left) for any reason, it would seem that it would 'eat' more wood on that side, and 'pivot' on the other side (curving to the Right side in this case).

Take a chain. Intentionally put excess hook in one side, and experiment? Let us know.

Philbert

Hmm, that sorta makes sense.

 

[Philbert]

Hmm, that sorta makes sense.

Thanks. But I'm just guessing.

Philbert

 

[turnkey4099]

I'm not saying bar issues that cause a cut to favor one side don't happen but in my experience it's typically the chain.

I've also found cutter length differences, within reason, rarely cause it as well.

I would say one side is dull as hell.

Right on!!...except for one side being dull as hell. It only has to be a bit misfiled to cause the problem. I really haven't had the crooked cutting problem since I started usign a clamp on bar guide and learned to throw files away when they got dull.

 

[DSW]

I only ever get a bar that wants to curve badly if I hit some grit, typically in standing dead trees, it will sometimes dull one side worse than the other. I've never purposely put a hook on one side and went tame on the other so it's definitely possible.

 

[bigfellascott]

Right on!!...except for one side being dull as hell. It only has to be a bit misfiled to cause the problem. I really haven't had the crooked cutting problem since I started usign a clamp on bar guide and learned to throw files away when they got dull.

Yeah you definitely have to get in the habit of rotating your files to get the best out of them, I find they just glide too easily and don't feel like they are taking any metal off, I then just give them a little twist in the file guide to find a part of the file which is good to go. I've even had some new files that didn't feel right from the get go, not sure why but they just didn't file right so I just bin em and get another one out (not like they are expensive to buy).

 

[Skeans]

After my sessions with this issue, I have convinced myself the only difference one side to the other is the amount of hook. At least in my case with this one chain. I have no problem recognizing dull as hell teeth when I see them, that isn't the situation here. I'm not sure I will be using it again this year, after my sharpening session of Sunday, so it might be a while before I see how that did. Although the stubborn curiosity might see me taking a go at a random piece of big wood. Randomly. Somewhere.

I think I will also be trashing a chain or two next year, I have my eyes on some old stumps & roots at our summer place that need gotten rid of. So might take that opportunity to see how purposely filing a chain wrong a certain way will cause it to act.

I'll make you an offer I'll throw the chain or chains on my grinders if you're interested.


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[NSMaple1]

Thanks for the offer but I think it would cost more to get it there and back than a new chain would cost. Would be one time a grinder might come in handy though. And for next years stumping sessions. Hmmm...

 

[Skeans]

Thanks for the offer but I think it would cost more to get it there and back than a new chain would cost. Would be one time a grinder might come in handy though. And for next years stumping sessions. Hmmm...

I've done it for a few guys typically do small flat rate boxes depending on length 72 driver 3/8 you can fit about 4 in a box.

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[rarefish383]

Just because you 'filed' it, does not mean that you 'sharpened' it!

Philbert

I might have posted something way, way back in this thread. But here goes. Sometimes we just overthink stuff. I'm fourth generation in the tree business, so I may have an advantage. I don't use a guide or handle. Sometimes with my small files, or touching up one of the 36" plus chains my fingers start to cramp, so I break off a stick fatter than a pencil and jam it on the file. Most of us are not racing saws or cutting timber, perfection is not required. Most chains have a hash mark on them showing the angle. For beginners purpose, if you follow that line and keep your file dead level, it will cut well enough. Every now and then lay the file across the top of the teeth, if the rakers are holding the file above the cutters, give them a few swipes with the flat file. It will cut good enough. I've hit steel in trees that knocked one side of the chain way back. After filing the rocked side way back and just touching up the other side, the teeth were noticeably different, but it would still cut fast, straight, and throw chips. For beginners, just try to hold that angle, keep your file strokes level and straight. I've seen guys that try to sharpen the saw with it sitting to far away from them. The last inch of the stroke, they started to curve the file. Keeping the stroke straight is one of the hardest things to master, Joe.

 

[Philbert]

My point is that 'the file' does not sharpen the chain, the person sharpens the chain, using the file, grinder, Dremel tool, whatever. If they know what they are trying to achieve (e.g. sharp bevels on the top and side plates), they can sharpen with almost any tool - granted that they will likely have more skill or experience with one or the other.

If they have no idea what a sharp cutter looks like, what they are trying to achieve, they can file all day, file the backs of the cutters, square off a sharp bevel, etc.

So 'taking 3 strokes with a file', or using a different type of file guide, is not going to necessarily get them a sharp chain. Same thing with a $1,000 grinder. If you know what you are trying to accomplish, and use these tools intentionally, then maybe a sharp file and a stick may be all that some guys need.

Philbert

 

[cat10ken]

I've always said, if you have to mark your cutters you are filing so you can tell when you are done; you obviously can't tell a dull tooth from a sharp one.

I prefer to use a clamp on the bar type guide although I have 2 Oregon grinders. I don't like having to take the chain off the saw to sharpen.

With the clamp on guide I will sight down the file to make sure the top edge of the file is about 10% above the top of the tooth; this will give you the right hook. I think this is built in on the hand held guides.

I have also found that tooth length isn't all that important, just adjust the raker depth for each tooth.

I'm 67 have been cutting and burning wood since I was a kid so don't be too hard on me if you don't agree.

 

[turnkey4099]

I've always said, if you have to mark your cutters you are filing so you can tell when you are done; you obviously can't tell a dull tooth from a sharp one.

I prefer to use a clamp on the bar type guide although I have 2 Oregon grinders. I don't like having to take the chain off the saw to sharpen.

With the clamp on guide I will sight down the file to make sure the top edge of the file is about 10% above the top of the tooth; this will give you the right hook. I think this is built in on the hand held guides.

I have also found that tooth length isn't all that important, just adjust the raker depth for each tooth.

I'm 67 have been cutting and burning wood since I was a kid so don't be too hard on me if you don't agree.

RE: marking teeth.

Good luck with your belief, eventually you will start to loose your eyesight some and will be marking teeth. One person on these type threads has already confessed that he had to eat crow on the subject.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Some one was asking me the other day how I sharpened chains after thinking for a moment IDK. I was too busy watching some deer navigating through some fence lines that I was not paying any attention to the sharpening process. It is necessary to glance down at the cutters to see if they are cleaned up well. Although Cat like me is a seasoned OLD FART who wants to spend more time cutting than messing around with chains. The fastest cheapest way to get the most out of any chain is to skillfully hand file it to perfection every time period. It takes time to learn how to skillfully accomplish this process that most people do not want to bother learning. Many do not have the patience to learn this process. Otherwise there would not be any chain saw shops anywhere. Many AS people take their saws to have upgrades or routine maintenance performed. These folks do not want to perform these tasks themselves so. I have never taken any saw to any shop ever so. I am positive that those who take their saws to shops to have work done enjoy cutting wood just as much as those whose perform all their own work maybe more. It appears that more than half of fallers or amateurs prefer to set up an grinder for their chains so they can be uniform with out surprises and they enjoy cutting just as much as anybody. So there are folks from one end of the spectrum to the other who all enjoy cutting. As far as the rakers are concerned even though I have filed hundreds of chains I do not always do it perfect. I was cutting some larger Pine logs that were a little soft the other day and decided that it would be OK to go a little more aggressive with the rakers so gave each one a couple extra strokes. Just like riding a wild bronco it shook like mad. So back to basics each cutter needs to be looked at to see if the rakers are properly matched. If Cat can mark the rakers that are in need of special attention effectively then he should mark them he will still be back to cutting sooner than most with a big smile. Let the chips fly. Thanks

 

[Big_Eddy]

I mount my saw upside down in the vice. Allows me to file both sides right handed. Stand alongside bar for one side, at the tip for the other. I saw that tip on this site years and years ago. Still have a slight tendency to get one side sharper than the other somehow.

I was sharpening in the garage last night and recalled this post. My usual technique is saw sitting on bench, tailgate or stump, one hand on the file, finger of the other supporting the side of the tooth being filed.
Last night, flipped the saw over and clamped it in the vise, used 2 hands on the file. Much easier and much more consistent angle and pressure from tooth to tooth and especially side to side. I'll be doing that again next time. My son (who cuts and sharpens a lot more than I do) was watching and had to give it a try too. He may be converted as well.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

eventually you will start to loose your eyesight some and will be marking teeth.

I sharpen the same number of strokes per tooth as a somewhat close estimate. About mid way through a chain I will take a hard look, sometimes with dividers or a magnifier headset, to see how the individual tooth lengths compare. Generally I find one side shorter than the other, but I've been correcting pressure some. If I find the my dominate side, my right, is noticeable shorter then I take a couple extra strokes off the long side.
I use a bench vice to sharpen for a couple reasons. The work is held steady. The work height is comfortable and I can move with my legs, holding the file fairly consistent throughout the length of the file stroke. And relating to eyesight, the lighting is very good.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I was sharpening in the garage last night and recalled this post. My usual technique is saw sitting on bench, tailgate or stump, one hand on the file, finger of the other supporting the side of the tooth being filed.
Last night, flipped the saw over and clamped it in the vise, used 2 hands on the file. Much easier and much more consistent angle and pressure from tooth to tooth and especially side to side. I'll be doing that again next time. My son (who cuts and sharpens a lot more than I do) was watching and had to give it a try too. He may be converted as well.

Are you trying to say that you were sharpening your saw with one hand? I do not think that would work well. Left or right hand on the file handle with the opposite hand on the other end of the file. There is no other possible way. When you get done with one side including rakers go to the other side of the saw and repeat.

Thanks