Some STIHL News From Germany; MS441 C-M

[GASoline71]

Those aluminum slots are killer!!!




.

Thanks mang... those came off of a 1933 Willys Gasser tha was raced in the PNW in the 60's and 70's. Original ET Slots.

Gary

 

[belgian]

So far, I am convinced that their efforts to make chainsaws cleaner (leaning them out, CAT mufflers and the like) have put more chainsaws in the scrapper than anything else. If you're just creating machinery that doesn't work properly and that ends up in a landfill, you've really kind of defeated the purpose. Maybe we could say that at least we're tying?

So this is just my opinion, but I think most of the efforts to date to clean up chainsaws has backfired. It looks to me like stratocharging has some pretty good potential. I have no idea what to think of the computer chip thing, I suppose we just have to wait and see what the reality is when the technology is straightened out.

Having said that, here's why I feel (so far, at least) that clean technology + chainsaws has limited value....

I'm all for doing sensible things to machinery to help clean things up. And I think that everything they can do with cars makes all the sense in the world because there's 12 jillion of them on the road at any given time and they use gobs of fossil fuel. But there's probably not 6 chainsaws in use in my town on any given Saturday... and there are far less in use BETWEEN towns. The fact is, people just don't USE chainsaws for much. Most people don't have a chainsaw, some have never even HELD a chainsaw. There are some that have them but never even USE them, others maybe a few times per year. The are very few people that use them all the time, relatively speaking.

So my question is.... is the time, effort, and money spent on making an essentially dirty chainsaw engine into a clean engine going to pay any dividends? My personal feeling is that even if you just THREW all the chainsaw engines in the WORLD into the crusher today and made them go away, you would not move the pollution index even one iota.

So.... I think cleaning up chainsaw engines is a bit like cleaning up a particle accelerator. It's just not where the problem is. Clean up cars, power plants, smelters, and all the other substantial contributors to point and nonpoint source pollution.. even lawn mowers I get... everybody has one of those and they run them all the time.

I think it's a good effort mind you, and I laud the EPA on putting their best foot forward to make a difference, but I think chainsaws are a casualty of an indiscriminately applied rule. Not only have we not really cleaned up the air, we've screwed up the machinery in the process. I mean, seriously.. anyone can buy a Hummer and drive it to the store to get a candy bar and we are going to lose a nice simple hobby that really wasn't hurting anyone because we're going to "clean EVERYTHING up?" The logic blows me away. Let's face it, we do some really dumb stuff. So dumb, that now some freight train of a government agency is going to step in and tell us what to do. It's a bummer, but I guess we did it to ourselves, eh?

Not that it is really an overriding factor, but like some of the other guys, I really miss the machinery that i can fix myself. I used to do all my own auto repair and I don't anymore.... my lawnmower carburetor isn't even adjustable... it's giving me fits! There is more than a little suspicion in my heart that sometimes technology is applied to things that don't need them in order to create and expand a brand new industry. Let's call it the "you're-not-smart-enough-anymore-to-fix-this-gadget-so-you're-going-to-have-have-to-pay-ME-to-fix-it" industry. Maybe I'm seeing this wrong and I'll have to remind myself to be open to the idea of applying clean technology to chainsaws. But this is what I think today, anyways.

And you guys thought I was green!! I really don't feel that I am... I just like to try to find the truth of things which, or course, changes as the world does.

Good post.
But new laws involve new developments, new spending for manufacterers and consumers having to buy new stuff. After the EPA, it will be something else, like small particles (dust), vibrations, .... In germany, discussions are already about installing small particles filters in chimneys of private housing burning firewood...
the saga will continue, also for saws. Like you rightly mentioned, the impact of saw emissions on the environment is probably nil, but the whole chainsaw industry has to change their product portfolio, and that is what keeps the economy going I guess.
With all the electronic stuff added to equipment, it will become indeed more difficult to tinker on your own, and the servicing shops will probably see better business in the future. Not a good trend for us sawbuffs or geeks.

but there are still plenty of oldies around to have fun with

 

[Evan]

maybe a saw that talks me and says, Evan no not that tree its to big and your still to dumb to fall it safely

 

[weimedog]

First...Ditto to the "andrethegiant70" post. Exactly how I feel.

Good post.
But new laws involve new developments, new spending for manufacterers and consumers having to buy new stuff.

Which is also a large driving force...pass a law, hope it translates into economic growth.

Watch carefully the Motocross Racing World. There is a movement to let the 250cc class come back into being..vs. the 250cc two stroke vs. 450cc fourstrokes as we have now. Since the "Green" push to four stroke, the cost of racing has pushed participants to other forms. Four stokes are way more expensive to build and maintain than two strokes.

My fear is cheap pacific rim manufacturing will allow one more itteration to electronic "green" before the complexity makes us wish for the glory days of Husky Stihl. Sort of like the blast of kitchen appliances with all kind of electronic controls which last for one year...

 

[Zero Gravity]

This thread ignores the significant gains the saw manufactures a have made. The Husky E series is cleaner, quieter and a lot healthier for the operator. When used with Husky oil and veggie bar oil they are much cleaner with no performance loss. There is no reason to fear technology.

When I compare my 353E to my old Homolite 330 at 16:1 and you can see the progress.

One thing you will see is no four stroke tuning. You can also expect to see reversion loop exhaust. The greatest emission gains will be in the material science area, oil and p/c materials. I can't wait to see a saw with a mini chamber and silencer. Bring on the future!
ZG

 

[The Lorax]

Watch carefully the Motocross Racing World. There is a movement to let the 250cc class come back into being..vs. the 250cc two stroke vs. 450cc fourstrokes as we have now.

What I can't understand is how a displacement based race series , 125cc, 250cc, Open class has allowed a larger capacity machine to compete?
Surely if 4 strokes are that much better than they should be able to compete at the same displacement as the 2 strokes?
If they can't run with the 250cc then let the makers build one that can.
Another question, if 4 strokes are so powerful and handle so well, how come all the jump and freestyle guys ride 2T machines?

 

[matt9923]

Guys, take it easy on the computer saws.

Used to be you had to be a gearhead to get more power out of a car. Now most of them you can plug in a computer chip and see instant gains; no greasy fingers, no garage full of tools, no busted knuckles.


Mr. HE

So what you saying is no more fun. LOL

 

[flashpuppy]

What I can't understand is how a displacement based race series , 125cc, 250cc, Open class has allowed a larger capacity machine to compete?

Technically, they are the same. A 250cc two stroke fires every 360*. A 450cc four stroke fires every 720*. Over a minute of constant RPM, the two stroke has fired twice as often, effectively doubling the displacement.

 

[SawTroll]

Technically, they are the same. A 250cc two stroke fires every 360*. A 450cc four stroke fires every 720*. Over a minute of constant RPM, the two stroke has fired twice as often, effectively doubling the displacement.

How about a 450cc 2-stroke then, Stihl did make one in the 1930s, believe it was designed B2Z, or something like that.....

 

[flashpuppy]

How about a 450cc 2-stroke then, Stihl did make one in the 1930s, believe it was designed B2Z, or something like that.....

This is what I like about your posts.

 

[MotorSeven]

Gary, more like this:

I just can't seem to keep my foot out of the Holley when I drive it. But the peg leg has to go, hunting for a posi.
..........it's a work in progress..........

RD

 

[peter399]

It is no secret that Stihl experimented on the 280, while Husky did on 575xp "pre-production" saws.

As far as I know, Husky started the experiments a tad before 1990, on 262xp prototypes, but that version never hit the market. That is why there is a "mystical" room in the rear handle of older 262xps.

Troll you really are the PhD of chainsaws. Something new I didn't know about the 262

 

[Jacob J.]

Troll you really are the PhD of chainsaws. Something new I didn't know about the 262

That's awesome inside information for sure...

 

[crashagn]

Just wait when a "onboard puter" shuts down you saw because you have a dirty filter or it sends a msg to the saw to adjust the oiler while in a cut because your using to much bar oil and effecting the eco system.. Or your saw is stolen so Onstar tracks it....

 

[clutch25]

Motocross bikes are now heavy FourStokes with fuel injection...they meet EPA standards! Is that the way we are moving in saws? They are $8000-$9000 dollars and God help you when its rebuild time. Basically they have moved racing from an every lawn mowing, burger flipping teenagers & family sport to one for the big bucks crowd.

Off road racing still has classes for two strokes. AND..offroad racing is growing relative to MX. You can be competitive on a 5 year old two stroke in HS & GNC type racing.

Um...no they don't meet the epa standards in race trim. STOCK they do, maybe, but you put a big cam, exhaust etc on a 4 smoke and they pollute almost as bad. The 4 strokes do cost BIG money when it comes time to rebuild...BIG money...trust me...I know!

 

[Net-Knight1]

FIRST PICS OF THE NEW 441C-M !!!

No carb adjustment possible/needed. Stainless muffler.

Just one ON/OFF switch, nothing else...


More Pics will follow.

 

[indiansprings]

At my local dealer yesterday, the mechanic had been informed of this while at Virginia Beach, he says it's nothing more than an updated version of the system on the 280, Stihl found it to be durable and reliable on the 280 so they will slowly roll it out. I remember when John Deere went to the electronic shifting and hydraulic controls and we all #####ed and griped and thought they wouldn't last on combines and tractors in dirty field conditions. I've yet to have one fail me. EPA will eventually mandate this for all saws, through enhanced emission requirements. It goes against my grain, but nothing I can do beside buy before it happens and put a couple up for down the road.

 

[RTK]

What are the specs??

 

[porsche965]

They for sure will weigh more and cost more.

Buy what you can now.

World government is coming....

 

[Andyshine77]

FIRST PICS OF THE NEW 441C-M !!!

No carb adjustment possible/needed. Stainless muffler.

Just one ON/OFF switch, nothing else...


More Pics will follow.

Looks and sounds good to me. I want one!!!