steering trees while felling

[Johny Utah]

OT,

I for one tire easily on regional upmanship, excepting of course sparring in good fun. But I would wager that an experienced WC logger and an experienced EC logger (or for that matter, steep vs flat, hardwood vs softwood) would come to terms and respect each others methods and discover much more in common than in difference if they were to meet face to face, chainsaws in hand on their respective turfs. With that statement, I don't think the reaction you are getting is driven by a WC/EC rivalry.

Not that you don't know, but it bears stating that without a shared real world context, words often leave the wrong impression. That is one of the major problems/dangers of seeking and giving falling advice via written posts. Now what was that old proverb about pictures and words? The same can be said about hands on demonstration and pictures. I don't know for sure how slow you meant but I took it to mean slow enough to read the fall and make necessary adjustments. Watching many falling videos where the faller seems to be doing a lot of saw/stop/look has prompted me as a firewood hack to be much more cautious taking time to judge what the tree is doing rather than simply putting it on the ground as quick as possible. I don't know if the saw/stop/look approach is cutting "slowly" but I believe it is done for many of the same reasons you suggested for cutting slowly. Unfortunately, we can't assume that everyone reading this thread will have enough experience to judge the appropriate speed a cut should take. There are probably many novices that follow instructional posts and not knowing any better will misunderstand well intended advice and get hurt.

Ron

I rely and respect you guys and your advice because I am not very knowledgeable with this stuff, most of my learning is from here or just get out there and try it and hope for the best.:msp_thumbup:

 

[Johny Utah]

Given that the OP is on my ignore list, I'm not sure of the nature of this whole deal, but given the nature of the OP's previous posts and the responses garnered from this one.......just looks like another pot stir from the puke.

Actually buddy contrary to what you may think, I ask people with more experience to help me out because I don't know the proper way to do things that a lot of these guys do everyday as their occupation. As for being a smart ass, well all I can say is I'm just giving it right back to the source. When people want to talk seriously about relevant topics I am a very grounded person. I don't hold grudges and don't believe in first impressions. Get to know a person overtime and then judge is the way I see interacting with people. But that's fine if you think I'm a puke, I don't value your comments as beneficial to any conversation I may have with you.

 

[Johny Utah]

i should go out and nail a set bike handlebars to a tree to show him how to steer a tree.

If only it were that easy.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[slowp]

Bailey's - Professional Timber Falling by Douglas Dent

 

[Cedarkerf]

Heres a stearing cut also known as a sisweel, can realy make a tree move having been shown in person I dont think it could be taught on the internet

 

[paccity]

a variant on the sisweel.

you can't teach all the diff cuts on the net.

 

[Johny Utah]

Now I am starting to see how these cuts work, never seen pics like those before. Wow you guys sure have big trees around. Definitely on the job experience with these techniques would be essential for trees that big.:msp_thumbup:

 

[paccity]

just makin a traffic cone fall were i wanted.

 

[dancan]

Heres a stearing cut also known as a sisweel, can realy make a tree move having been shown in person I dont think it could be taught on the internet

Thanks for the pics but a stumpshot showing the lay of the tree would have been nice .
A short vid of you dropping a tree with a sisweel like that would sure go a long way in understanding the setup and the results would even be better .

 

[2dogs]

I am a fan of the sloping back cut.:msp_tongue:

 

[beastmaster]

After seeing the ultra soft dutchmen on you tube, Ive been trying to do it. I am getting to the point that some times it works some times it don't. I like to think I am a decent faller, but seeing what a real faller does on a day in day out basics, is both impressive and humbling. Do any of you use compression cuts to turn trees?

 

[LumberjkChamp]

I am a fan of the sloping back cut.:msp_tongue:

Oh man! Don't start that #### again.

 

[oscar4883]

I like to think I am a decent faller, but seeing what a real faller does on a day in day out basics, is both impressive and humbling. Do any of you use compression cuts to turn trees?

I hear ya. I am a tree guy and not a faller. I also like to think that I am a good faller. I don't fall enough whole trees to get really good practice with these specific cuts. If I have to steer a tree I am using rigging. Or if in doubt about a fall, climbing. IMO these cuts are best left to pro fallers. If a homeowner wants to try some of this stuff it is fine by me if there are not things to damage. Even then I would't want to lose a saw because I was playing with some fancy cut. I think 99% of us can get by with a regular face cut. Overhand, humboldt, whatever. Just concentrate on making your cuts line up perfectly and forget about these other cuts. BTW beastmaster this was not directed at you, more towards the OP bud.

 

[beastmaster]

I hear ya. I am a tree guy and not a faller. I also like to think that I am a good faller. I don't fall enough whole trees to get really good practice with these specific cuts. If I have to steer a tree I am using rigging. Or if in doubt about a fall, climbing. IMO these cuts are best left to pro fallers. If a homeowner wants to try some of this stuff it is fine by me if there are not things to damage. Even then I would't want to lose a saw because I was playing with some fancy cut. I think 99% of us can get by with a regular face cut. Overhand, humboldt, whatever. Just concentrate on making your cuts line up perfectly and forget about these other cuts. BTW beastmaster this was not directed at you, more towards the OP bud.

I agree a 100% . I get by with pretty basic cuts. I am impressed with some of those logging falling cuts, they take knowledge and skill.
I would never use a exotic cut to turn a tree. Can't take that chance. I put a rope in almost every thing I fall around property. A good face cut and carefull with the holding wood your good to go.
But hey, I like that jumping sideways cut I saw on you tube also. Where it jumps off the stump and flys off to the side. Cool

 

[Gologit]

I agree a 100% . I get by with pretty basic cuts. I am impressed with some of those logging falling cuts, they take knowledge and skill.
I would never use a exotic cut to turn a tree. Can't take that chance. I put a rope in almost every thing I fall around property. A good face cut and carefull with the holding wood your good to go.
But hey, I like that jumping sideways cut I saw on you tube also. Where it jumps off the stump and flys off to the side. Cool

It's cool when it works. Sometimes it doesn't work. Funny how nobody ever posts videos of a professional faller when things go sideways on him.

The one I'd like to see is the "wedge beating video"...you know, where things went a little wrong and the faller gets to spend the next 15 minutes or half an hour wailing the heck out of his wedges...in between catching his breath and cussing. Or maybe the "calling for your partner to cut you out of a hangup" video. The "forgetting where you put your tramp bag and nosebag until you drop a tree right on top of them" video would also be a welcome change.

I can understand why you guys rig stuff whenever you can. What little falling I've done around houses and powerlines and such made me wish I was back in the woods. If I have one that crosses the lead all I usually get is a grumpy skidder operator. And they're usually grumpy anyway.

 

[hammerlogging]

Yeah, if I have one bust off the hinge while its falling, mess up my pattern, other than the lingering memory, which does nag me, it takes me about 30 seconds to say, "####, well, #### it."

Lets see, today, 1/4 tank left to the day, bucking off a 34.5 footer, butt hanging in the air, bored through the stem about 2/3 of the way down to power down and circle up and back down to buck it off, it sat on me just before I cleared the cut through the bottom. Yep, about 20 minutes later, I got my saw, bar and chain out, finished the cut, adn headed to the truck. 20 minutes later than necessary

 

[Johny Utah]

I hear ya. I am a tree guy and not a faller. I also like to think that I am a good faller. I don't fall enough whole trees to get really good practice with these specific cuts. If I have to steer a tree I am using rigging. Or if in doubt about a fall, climbing. IMO these cuts are best left to pro fallers. If a homeowner wants to try some of this stuff it is fine by me if there are not things to damage. Even then I would't want to lose a saw because I was playing with some fancy cut. I think 99% of us can get by with a regular face cut. Overhand, humboldt, whatever. Just concentrate on making your cuts line up perfectly and forget about these other cuts. BTW beastmaster this was not directed at you, more towards the OP bud.

99% of the time I use a conventional notch, and everything I cut is in the bush or a shelter belt so if something does go wrong the worst is I hangem in the canopy. I never attempt something I think I can't safely do on my own. I've walked away from a lot of trees that I don't have the skills for. If any of you guys want some free help just pay for my plane ticket and I'll work for free just to learn from pros. I live in the sticks so there isn't anybody out here that could mentor me about how to do things proper. Lot's of firewood hacks like myself out here though. Everything I've learned about cutting wood I've learned here from you guys and I thank everybody for their help and patience with my newb questions.:msp_biggrin:

 

[madhatte]

The one I'd like to see is the "wedge beating video"...you know, where things went a little wrong and the faller gets to spend the next 15 minutes or half an hour wailing the heck out of his wedges...in between catching his breath and cussing.

I didn't know you were watching!

 

[Gologit]

I didn't know you were watching!

I wasn't watching....I was doing. And not doing too well either.

One of the TV stations came out to get some footage of us doing some selective work on a re-gen area. You know, the typical feel good fluff stuff they do. I was falling a good sized white fir that just flat defied everything I tried to make it do. I was wedged up pretty good, doubled up, and I beat on that damn tree, and beat on it and beat on it and beat on it some more. I think it fell over because it was beginning to feel sorry for me.
When it finally went I looked at where the TV crew had been, way up the hill and safe...and they were gone. Packed up and gone. I guess all the @#$$#@@!!!%%$#%&**&&!!!! that I was calling that tree must not have been exactly the kind of footage they had in mind.

 

[madhatte]

must not have been exactly the kind of footage they had in mind.

"Ax Men" ain't for free!