Stihl 044 becoming a BEAST to crank!

[alexcagle]

Another learning opportunity so bear with me.
How does the carbon buildup make it "kick" harder? Does it affect the timing or somehow make it fire hotter?
The first Shindaiwa 500 I had was very hard on the hands if I wasn't paying attention and went easy on the pull. Very surprising as it is a smaller saw. I've had over 50 other Shindaiwas without issues but recently resurrected another 500 with the same issue.


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Carbon buildup displaces the volume of the combustion chamber, which raises the compression, which makes pull rope harder to pull.
However to further answer your question, the higher compression leads to possible preignition problems. The fuel exploding before the piston gets to the top is the kick you feel.

 

[Gypo Logger]

If the flywheel is slipping while you pull the recoil,
It'll advance.
If it slips when the chain break is triggered/snapped,
at high enough revs to have the clutch fully engaged,
It'll advance.

And all this time, I thought it just became retarded!

 

[alexcagle]

-ED

 

[HarleyT]

Another learning opportunity so bear with me.
How does the carbon buildup make it "kick" harder? Does it affect the timing or somehow make it fire hotter?
The first Shindaiwa 500 I had was very hard on the hands if I wasn't paying attention and went easy on the pull. Very surprising as it is a smaller saw. I've had over 50 other Shindaiwas without issues but recently resurrected another 500 with the same issue.


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The compression ratio goes up quickly, when you start reducing the volume in the combustion chamber at tdc.

 

[Gypo Logger]

The compression ratio goes up quickly, when you start reducing the volume in the combustion chamber at tdc.

Maybe a hunk of displaced rope in the jug causing excessive comp?

 

[MustangMike]

My best guess would be a leaking carb valve causing fuel in the case, makes it hard as heck to pull over.

Remove the muff, lower piston to BDC, rotate the saw 180 degrees (up side down), then tilt forward. If fuel comes out, that is your problem.

 

[alexcagle]

My best guess would be a leaking carb valve causing fuel in the case, makes it hard as heck to pull over.

Remove the muff, lower piston to BDC, rotate the saw 180 degrees (up side down), then tilt forward. If fuel comes out, that is your problem.

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Hydraulic lock.
I like your method of getting the fuel out of the crankcase.
I do it with the piston up at tdc and let it dribble out of the carb though.
This keeps the fuel from just pooling up on the backside of the piston.

 

[alexcagle]

Maybe a hunk of displaced rope in the jug causing excessive comp?

Lol!
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Displaced from where?
Whacky rope?

 

[MustangMike]

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Hydraulic lock.
I like your method of getting the fuel out of the crankcase.
I do it with the piston up at tdc and let it dribble out of the carb though.
This keeps the fuel from just pooling up on the backside of the piston.

If you rotate it slowly, it should almost all go though the transfer & out. I have had to do it to 2 different saws this year, neither of them mine, but both were MS 460s!

I guess saws with different style transfers (like a 461) may require a different rotation, but an 044 is the same.

 

[OregonGChain]

Hey John, when a keyway shears which direction does the timing go?...

It advances, depending on why it shears.


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[altair]

If I leave my 661 for more than a month or so between runs its a nightmare to pull over...have to walk round it twice and sprinkle holy water on it before I try....once its been run its fine. Takes about 7 pulls too damn it to fire. And the old MS440 is the same..think the fact I'm an old bugger now isn't helping...the 661 needs a kickstart. Have a workmate in his 70s who puts his Husky (395?) in the vice and he uses two hands to pull it over...then leaves it idling while refuelling so he does not have to restart it....lol...but he refuses to part with it. I love my 021...lol

 

[alexcagle]

If you rotate it slowly, it should almost all go though the transfer & out. I have had to do it to 2 different saws this year, neither of them mine, but both were MS 460s!

I guess saws with different style transfers (like a 461) may require a different rotation, but an 044 is the same.

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Yeah, that works somewhat, but the fuel will try to pool into the piston from gravity won't it?
Unless you roll it to one side or the other to get a clean shot into a transfer, then out the spark plug hole.
If that works fine for you then cool, but If you tilt it back with the bar straight up in the air, with the piston up, gravity will cause it to flow centrally, right through the intake boot, backwards through the carb & out on your feet. Lol
-of course, Just make sure the filter is off first, and the throttle is locked on high idle with the choke off.

 

[MustangMike]

I tilt it forward and pour the fuel out the exhaust port.

If I leave my 661 for more than a month or so between runs its a nightmare to pull over..

Wondering if your carb has a slow leak that is causing this problem?

 

[alexcagle]

If I leave my 661 for more than a month or so between runs its a nightmare to pull over...have to walk round it twice and sprinkle holy water on it before I try....once its been run its fine.

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Thats funny!....exorcism. lol

That or one of those New Zealand earthquakes shook the needle off it's seat on the carburetor. Lol
Some carburetors needles "pop off" before the newer tank vents bypass, (the vents are supposed pop off first).
This is necessary in order to relieve excess pressure in the tank from expansion, from a rise in the fuels temperature.
If the climate you live in has a large fluctuation between the high and low temperatures this can become an issue.
If you don't run a saw for months, it's a possibilty that this is what the problem could be.
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The cutoff saws I deal with though, that's almost never an issue with all the dust contamination.
More often than not, they fail to even hold the 4psi that they are supposed to.
EPA requires saw manufacturers to locate the fuel tank vents next to the air filter to soak up any leakage.
Usually though, they leak a bunch and soak the filter, most times so bad they won't start.

 

[ReggieT]

***UPDATE***
Cleaned up the 044, took plug out, and replaced, and pulled the rope half-way and then commenced to pull it like a Sasquatch and on about the 8th yank she fired up!
Just one little issue...the chain is rotating fast enough to cut sapplings down...without me touching the throttle!!
Perhaps I'll pull clutch cover and see if there's a problem in there...

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Good on you Reggie. My older 044`s that have no decomps will bite anyone that is not ready and dedicated to starting it, best to have a strong grip and arm when starting them. They have been squish set and ported with around 180 - 185 lbs comp, nicest cutting saws I have owned to date.

 

[ReggieT]

Good on you Reggie. My older 044`s that have no decomps will bite anyone that is not ready and dedicated to starting it, best to have a strong grip and arm when starting them. They have been squish set and ported with around 180 - 185 lbs comp, nicest cutting saws I have owned to date.

Thanks Pioneerguy600...I've noticed the power/weight ration between my 044 & 038Mag both with 20 in bar/chain and filled up...feels like over 2 lbs!
The 044 easily much lighter.
Just stumbled upon a decent wood score of fresh felled oak, hickory, beech tree's...kinda interested to see which one performs better in the cut?
btw...do you think may a quick fix? A adjust idle check clutch springs

 

[MustangMike]

do you think may a quick fix? A adjust idle check clutch springs

That is what I would do, and make sure it is still four stroking. I love my 044s, but I'm starting to really like my MS440 cause it has compression relief.

It is not ported, but with the HD-2 filter, dp muff cover, base gasket delete and a 20/1000 timing advance, it runs darn good for an unported saw. Plus, when it is warmed up, I just push in that button and drop start it, BLISS!

 

[pioneerguy600]

It depends on the RPM the saw is idling at, I can tell the approx RPM just by listening to it but you may need a tach to see if the idle is below 2,800 RPM. If the saw is idling below 2,800 and the chain is still turning then there is a problem under the clutch drum. A stuck needle bearing that the clutch drum rolls on or one or more clutch shoe springs broken or stretched badly, also can be caused by elongated holes that the springs hook into on the clutch shoes.