Stihl MS210C problem starting and stopping

[gregb7]

Low compression usually starts to show itself in hard starting. It sounds like your saw starts fine but doesn't run. This is usually a fuel system issue, not compression.

This could be a severe air leak, but you are going to need a vacuum/pressure tester to find out.

In regards to your questions about what can wear out on the carb... There are internal check valves that can leak and wear out that are not part of the rebuild kit. There are also clearances that wear and cause problems... such as the are where the H and L screws seat and the bore of the needle valve.

Okay--thanks for telling me that---didn't know that. That would justify me then buying another carb for this. I have many things to check on tomorrow when it warms up outside, from other suggestions too, so will go at it piece by piece, taking comp. tests also. If I did get another carb for it, would finding a used one off ebay be a bad idea--cheaper, but maybe wore out also? Where is a good place to get a new one--it is a Zama what I have.

 

[AKDoug]

Your local Stihl dealer should have one or get one for you for around $30... part #1123 120 0605 for the adjustable carb.

Does this thing idle at all, or just run for a second and then die?

• Check gaskets on your carb. This is the Zama tech guide.. http://www.zamacarb.com/pdfs/TechGuide_2007.pdf it should help even if you have a Walbro carb.
• You should find a way to vacuum/pressure check your engine. Search threads for how to do it.

 

[gregb7]

For all who are helping me above, thank you! It is GREAT just to get feedback so I can try things to fix this saw, rather than be left isolated, and having to wait till a local saw shop can help--I have this saw on my mind, and want to get it fixed! Now then, for those who have suggested things, here is what I did late this morning when it warmed up here: First, I did a compression test, pulling it about 5 times: got it up to 130. It is not the 150 that lone wolf said would be good, but I think still good enough to run the saw rght? Then I took the fuel line off and it sprayed almost 2' out straight, so plenty of pressure built up in the line with lots of gas there. Then I took the carb off, and noticed the little diaphragm with the pin in it's center, might have been upside down. It is hard to tell, cuz there really was not much difference in the length on either side--some pins are more pronounced--maybe I need another one? Anyhow, I reversed it, and put it back to gether, and got the saw filled up again, and it started up. I thought I had it solved, but then again, it died out on me on acceleration--so I'm back to square one. I had both the low and high speed one turn out. I know those can be adjusted, but shouldn't it at least run at that setting, and not die out?
Since it is Christmas, and my wife and I plan to do a Christmas carolling thing tonight at her assisted care for the aged where she works, and I give a devotional and play my trumpet (I used to pastor--still do missionary work), I probably will table this till tomorrow. But if what I write above helps shed any light, or anyone has more things to suggest, i'm open still. There are no air leaks, for the only place that can be is on the fuel line, and that is only 5 days new, and it was a $20 OEM from the local Stihl dealer--and I had a new fuel filter on it already--but can put another one on too to try--that is an easy test--but tell me what else i can do?
I saw this site was hacked, and supposedly down, but I got into it here okay--is it fixed now?

 

[gregb7]

Your local Stihl dealer should have one or get one for you for around $30... part #1123 120 0605 for the adjustable carb.

Does this thing idle at all, or just run for a second and then die?

• Check gaskets on your carb. This is the Zama tech guide.. http://www.zamacarb.com/pdfs/TechGuide_2007.pdf it should help even if you have a Walbro carb.
• You should find a way to vacuum/pressure check your engine. Search threads for how to do it.

It runs for 5 seconds then dies--whether I give it more gas or not. I thought maybe I had that one gasket upside down, that has the center pin in it, for it was a tiny bit longer on one side, so turned that so the longer part was toward the carb, so it could hit better that tab that moves the needle up and down. But it still does it the same. (which way is it supposed to be? that little tin washer around the pin that has holes in it on one side only--I put that towards the carb)
I have tried to find a vacuum/pressure checker but have never found one yet--where is a good place to get one?
I will go above now also to the Zama tech guide you referenced for me--thank you.
I was warned this site was hacked and virus's might attack me here--won't know I guess till I get off and try other sites--I have Avast Virus protection anyhow, so think I'll be safe. Is this site safe now, from what you know?
Merry Christmas--probably will table this now till tomorrow--will do a Christmas program for some old folks at an Assisted Care place tonight with my wife. Thank you.

 

[AKDoug]

Metal washer towards the carb. Don't worry about this site. It was hacked but there is no virus danger to your computer. Any chance you can post pictures of your carb during reassembly so we might be able to give you some pointers? Vacuum/Pressure testers are available at an auto parts store or off an online store like Amazon. Mity-Vac is a popular one. Merry Christmas to you too.

 

[gregb7]

Impulse line if your saw has one is not the fuel line it is a vac line the powers the fuel diaphragm in the carb. Try to get the pdf online and look.

I got the PDF, and I also talked to the local stihl dealer here, and he said the impulse line comes from inside the engine and goes directly to the carb, on the back side, as it butts up against the engine with only a gasket between--no tube I can see anywhere, and I can't see any line coming from the engine either on the schematic--so I'm still scratching my head.
I will try another spark plug and fuel filter tomorrow, and go thru the carb gaskets and ports with a piano wire I bought tonight at ACE, and if that does not do it, I guess I'll order another carborator! It's like a Puzzle, and I'm getting a little tired of it, and about to throw it in the fire--but I'll try another carborator first before I do that. I got 130 compression--mentioned that to another here who asked me that, but he has not replied yet. That should be enough comp. to run the saw don't you think?

 

[AKDoug]

There is a tube, your dealer is incorrect. You can see it if you remove the handle bar and look from the right side between the cylinder and the back side of the carb mount. Use a flashlight.

 

[z71mike]

There are no air leaks, for the only place that can be is on the fuel line, and that is only 5 days new, and it was a $20 OEM from the local Stihl dealer--and I had a new fuel filter on it already--but can put another one on too to try--that is an easy test--but tell me what else i can do?

By air leaks, we're referring to somewhere other than fuel line. Carb boot, air filter base plate, and most importantly crank seals - the rubber rings that your crank passes through. They provide the seal so your fuel mixture doesn't leave the crank case. If they fail, they could allow outside air to enter the crank case around the crank shaft and lean out your mixture. A pressure/vac test will tell you if the seals are holding properly. I wouldn't spend money on a new carb if you don't isolate the issue first.

Also, try going 1.5 turns out on each carb screw and see where that gets you. Even if it's an air leak somewhere, the extra fuel should at least allow the saw to idle.

 

[gregb7]

There is a tube, your dealer is incorrect. You can see it if you remove the handle bar and look from the right side between the cylinder and the back side of the carb mount. Use a flashlight.

Okay--thanks--is that so even if there is no nipple on the carb? He said it was a slanted hole on the back side of the carb that connected to the engine manifold. Whatever, I will look for this tomorrow when the sun comes out to warm things up, as well as give me light--I don't have an indoor work bench that I can use--have one, but no light here, and it is too small anyhow--my outdoor one has lots of room. i will attack this again tomorrow. Another guy, Charlie, sent me a PDF of this model, and there too it shows an impulse hose--pg. 14--item #25 if you have that same manual, or see it on the forum I started yesterday that he sent me. I just don't see where any hose can even connect to anything from what I remember with what I've done--but I've not had the handle off either--maybe tomorrow.....thanks.

 

[gregb7]

By air leaks, we're referring to somewhere other than fuel line. Carb boot, air filter base plate, and most importantly crank seals - the rubber rings that your crank passes through. They provide the seal so your fuel mixture doesn't leave the crank case. If they fail, they could allow outside air to enter the crank case around the crank shaft and lean out your mixture. A pressure/vac test will tell you if the seals are holding properly. I wouldn't spend money on a new carb if you don't isolate the issue first.

Also, try going 1.5 turns out on each carb screw and see where that gets you. Even if it's an air leak somewhere, the extra fuel should at least allow the saw to idle.

Okay--will try tomorrow when it warms up--outdoor work bench. Thanks.

 

[AKDoug]

There are two major components to this saw. One is the tank/engine cradle that holds the engine. Two is the rear handle/carb mount/top plastic. There is a rubber intake boot that comes from the cylinder and passes through the handle/carb mount. There is also an impulse hose that runs parallel to the intake boot from the cylinder to the back side of the carb mount. Did you get the manual I sent you? On a side note, if you don't get this figured out, I will be in Surprise, AZ on Jan 6th

 

[gregb7]

The 210 doesn't have a impulse line, it comes from the rubber boot. Check that and make sure it's not cracked anywhere.

I've worked on this saw every day since I first wrote this, and i am coming back now to comments different ones wrote, like yourself, to ask some more specifics. First, I was told to check the "welch plug" and pop it off--I didn't have a spare, so had to get one of those first for when I did. Nothing bad under the welch plug--clean as a whistle. I've replaced most every thing else, except a carb, and 15 min. ago ordered another aftermarket one, for it was only $14 and came with a new carb kit in it I think. While waiting for that to come, i was considering tearing down my saw some more, looking for an "impulse line". I called Brian from Bailey's logging, and he said he did not think I had one, and you said that too above. The video someone sent me showing one, has a hose coming out of the engine but mine does not have that--not there at least. My local stihl dealer says my impulse goes directly into my carb on the backside where it goes into the engine. He showed me the port, and it is at an angle drilled into the carb. He might be right. And you might be too. So i would like further explanation of what you mean by the impulse "comes from the rubber boot". WHICH rubber boot--you mean the ribbed fuel line? I don't see any other rubber boot, except the large rubber grommet that the carb butts up against. (and no cracks there) Let me know, when you can--for I am considering tearing the handle off and going further, but of course, that would be a waste of time if there is not "impulse" hose there. The schematic for the 210,230, 250 DO show one--but that little hose could just be for the 250, not the 210. But there is some air leak somewhere--still have not bought that vacuum thing yet--sounds like I have to build a bunch of other gadgets to go with it, to keep air from not leaking out, and trying to avoid all that.

 

[gregb7]

There are two major components to this saw. One is the tank/engine cradle that holds the engine. Two is the rear handle/carb mount/top plastic. There is a rubber intake boot that comes from the cylinder and passes through the handle/carb mount. There is also an impulse hose that runs parallel to the intake boot from the cylinder to the back side of the carb mount. Did you get the manual I sent you? On a side note, if you don't get this figured out, I will be in Surprise, AZ on Jan 6th

I did get the manual--someone also sent me the schematic for it, as well as for the Zama carbs. Thank you--and I've gone through it, giving me more ideas. Today I ordered a new aftermarket carb, that will come maybe the 7th. I'm still trying to figure all this out--have not bought a vacuum kit, for I'm told I also have to build some things to block off air, which is more time consuming, so trying to avoid that. If I don't have this resolved by the 7th, will you still be in Surprise then? That is about 135 miles from here--I'm East of Phx. 110 miles-- but if this is not fixed by then, i might be willing to drive over there--I might watch the BHS football game with my 93 yrs old dad at his place in Phx. the 6th--could drive up from there maybe the next morn. if you are still there, or even come early on the 6th up there--hopefully I 'll have the new carb by then, or have this all resolved by then.
Happy New Year!

 

[AKDoug]

Yes, we'll be in the Surprise area by the 7th. I'm addicted to this site, so I'll be monitoring it as I travel. I can almost completely disassemble your saw with my T-handle T-27, so I will pack it in my bag.

 

[AKDoug]

BTW, the part number for the impulse hose is 1123 141 8600

 

[gregb7]

Yes, we'll be in the Surprise area by the 7th. I'm addicted to this site, so I'll be monitoring it as I travel. I can almost completely disassemble your saw with my T-handle T-27, so I will pack it in my bag.

my email is [email protected]--if I still need to meet with you the 7th, I'll give you my C.P. # also. I'd like to have that carb. I ordered today (from link you sent--a A.M. type) by the time I see you, so might wait for that too. I'd bring tools with me too, that I've been using for assembly and disassembly. I'm still wondering if I should go after that "impulse hose"--someone said it was in the "rubber boot"--maybe not you--I'm wondering what was meant by that--rubber boot where? Dealer here said it came right from the piston chamber somehow. It's confusing, for the manual does show one, but it is for 3 different saws too, so maybe applies only to the 250. I'll let you know where I'm at--let me know too just if/when you would have time for this best--will you be watching that football game Mon. night too? More free the next day? I HOPE I might even have this resolved by then, but if not, it would be worth my time just to find out why this saw won't stay started--espec. if it does that also with a new carb!
I won't bother you anymore tonight--I'm off to a friend's house where we'll snack, and play games--my wife works night shift tonight at an assisted care place, so not a very fun night for her--works tomorrow too--I'll be at my dad's to watch the Rose Bowl--will be my first football game of the year only, for we don't have TV service. Have a Happy New Year time tonight if you get it by then--otherwise enjoy Jan. 1 !

 

[AKDoug]

Not a huge college football fan.. so I probably won't be watching the game. I will likely be in Surprise late on the 6th, but should be available on the 7th. I assure you there is an impulse hose on that saw, you just have to nearly completely disassemble it to see it Have a nice night and Happy New Year to you too.

 

[z71mike]

Not a huge college football fan.. so I probably won't be watching the game. I will likely be in Surprise late on the 6th, but should be available on the 7th. I assure you there is an impulse hose on that saw, you just have to nearly completely disassemble it to see it Have a nice night and Happy New Year to you too.

You're a good man, Doug. And this is why I'm still on this forum. Best group of guys around.

 

[turnkey4099]

I had the same problem. Start, bog, die as long as one was willing ot pull the cord. Found if I carried it in the cab wth the heater running on it, it would start most times but even that trick quit working. Once it stayed running it ran great the rest of the work session. Took to a very good shop - no cure, took back, new carb seems to have sorta fixed it, at least I can get it running by babying the throttle on a cold saw.

Harry K

 

[gregb7]

I concur that you Doug are a very good man, to keep writing me here, offer to look at it when you come to Ariz., (even if I have to drive a little out of my way too), and to keep suggesting things to me to try. Charlie from Atpchas has also spent a lot of time with me. It is SO nice to correspond with you guys on saw problems that the local saw shop just will not, (and understandably often CANnot do to help me), for they also need to make a living FIXING saws, not telling us how to fix them. Being able to leave a "thread" here, which someone can pick up at their leisure, and give advice based on their years of experience, and send me PDF shop manuals and web links of saw and carb schematics is such a blessing, and SO helpful, it speaks like Mike says above, to the great group of men on this site. May you all be BLESSED by our Creator this year, for giving to others of your time, even as He gave of His Son to us also. Happy New Year!