stihl usa? germany? china?

[TreeClimber57]

The reason sure is money = cheaper labour - but the modern 70cc+ saws still are made in Germany only - and also the 070/090.

I believe anything larger than the 361 is German made. We used to get the 361's from Germany as well, although there was a U.S. model, we now get the U.S. model vs the German one.

 

[Wild Knight]

I went to Lowe's today. I spent about 15 minutes just turning over the packaging of tools throughout the section. Sadly, just about everything was made in Asia, mostly China. The only tools that had a few items still made in the USA were Kobalt brand. I guess chainsaws aren't the only tools extensively being made in China. Almost impossible to shop in the US without supporting China now...

 

[TreeClimber57]

Well, China has just passed Germany and is now the worlds largest exporter.

They passed U.S. a while ago moving them to 2nd place.. now they are 1st.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...rmany-to-become-largest-exporter-1864052.html

Incidental, U.S. is the largest importer of their exports.

The scary part is near the end

"He added: "It's hard to say the government will take action on one month of data, but if the situation stays the same for the first quarter, Beijing is likely to let the yuan rise again at the end of March."

But Guosen Securities forecasts that the yuan will appreciate by a modest 3 per cent in 2010, as the Government is keen for exports to continue growing. The US has led the criticism of China that it has unfairly made its goods cheaper by maintaining a weak yuan. But the Chinese Prime Minister, Wen Jiabao, has hit back, saying the country will "not yield" to its competitors' demands to revalue the currency."

If their currency goes up, then their import costs go up, which means inflation. And we, due to our policy of moving everything offshore, will be unable to respond quickly enough to avoid it.

 

[beanz4brainz]

snip...."He added: "It's hard to say the government will take action on one month of data, but if the situation stays the same for the first quarter, Beijing is likely to let the yuan rise again at the end of March."

Maybe I'm misinformed, but I was under the impression that the recent gabillion dollar US financial bail-out was financed by the Chinese Gov't.
I wouldn't think they are interested in raising the value of the yuan, as this devalues their loans to the US. I might stand corrected, but that's the simplistic situation as I understand it.

Unfortunately, the person who holds your nads in his hand, isn't likely to care much (apart from executing more factory managers in a vane attempt at proving they really are interested in 'quality') for your complaints.

A negative effect of being a member of the global village, is that in an effort to raise the standards of others, first you must lower yours. Mind you, I'm all for buying local, but we've had chicom crap for eons and our Aussie Gov't is so lame, you wouldn't know where the hell the stuff was made.


JMHO,
b4b.

 

[Beowulf]

Hi people, my first post here. I found this thread while searching for answers relating to my 2004 Stihl MS 250C. It says made in Germany on it, but it has a POS Chinese carb.

Long story short: Father-law wanted to do something nice, offered to buy us a new saw Christmas 2004. Had not owned a Stihl, only Huskies, so asked for a nice trim saw, the MS250C-BE. Used it a few times over the next few months, then hit some rot in a log and it apparently sucked in some crud.

Have thoroughly cleaned the carb, tank, air filter, and overall saw. After a cleaning, it will run fine for about 1/3 of a tank or so, then won't run at high RPM, only idle. No Stihl dealers within a couple of hours of our location.

Bottom line: If the saw worked fine, I probably would not care about the commie carb. However, when it has a continous problem, and I take my "made in Germany" saw down to fix it, and find a Chinese carb, yes I think it is pretty crummy. The saw came from a small, local equipment dealer in the Midwest, not a big box. I'm on the left coast.

The whole thing is pretty irritating, since my other two Huskies never seem to have any problems and my "German" saw never works right.

 

[jd548esco72]

i think it is a commie plot!

get all the greedy capitalist corporations to move all manufacturing to CHINA to improve the bottom line. mainly producing disposable stuff, cheap garbage.

when we have moved all our tooling and industry over to china to save peanuts. they will then turn the tables and we will be paying sky-high prices for the same garbage/disposable crap we once imported because it was cheap.

the goal is to make the world dependent on china. the plan is going very well!

 

[gallegosmike]

Maybe I'm misinformed, but I was under the impression that the recent gabillion dollar US financial bail-out was financed by the Chinese Gov't.
I wouldn't think they are interested in raising the value of the yuan, as this devalues their loans to the US. I might stand corrected, but that's the simplistic situation as I understand it.

Unfortunately, the person who holds your nads in his hand, isn't likely to care much (apart from executing more factory managers in a vane attempt at proving they really are interested in 'quality') for your complaints.

A negative effect of being a member of the global village, is that in an effort to raise the standards of others, first you must lower yours. Mind you, I'm all for buying local, but we've had chicom crap for eons and our Aussie Gov't is so lame, you wouldn't know where the hell the stuff was made.


JMHO,
b4b.

The yuan is intentionally devalued to make their good more enticing to the rest of the world. If the yuan was at its true market value, no body in their right mind would buy anything chinese. On the flip side, if the chinese got pissed off at america, they could send us into economic nose dive like no one has ever seen! They own us, and it is a sad thing to say!

 

[Beowulf]

Update on my MS250C with the commie carb.

Many thanks to Nosmo on the manual beg thread. With a shop manual and an IPL, I finally decided to devote the time to figuring out what was causing the WOT fuel starvation problem on this fine POS.

Thought it was related to sucking in some crud somewhere when I hit a rotten spot in a log. Checked the usual culprits (tank screen, tank vent, lines, etc.) Tore the carb apart, cleaned the screen and all jets. Same problem, idled fine, would rev fine, then "run out of gas" at WOT after about 30 seconds or so.

Finally decided that there must be something wrong with the diaphragm that actuates the fuel inlet valve on the carb. Tore it down and looked at it really close with a magnifying glass. It would appear that the stamped diaphragm cover, secured by two screws in opposing corners, was not sealing at one of the corners that happened to be where the fuel valve forced the mating surface to be much narrower than the rest of the surface area where the diaphragm seals around the carb. body. This also happens to be one of the corners with no screw.

Upon reassembly, I applied a little vacuum to the hose inlet going to the diaphram and sure enough, it had a very slight leak that allowed the fuel valve to close under reduced vacuum (like WOT conditions.)

I suspect that this became a problem after a few tanks of gas went through the machine and things got warmed up nice. The log I was cutting at the time had nothing to do with the problem.

I applied a little (very little) gasket sealer to the area in question on the carb body side, and the thing runs like it should.

I have heard of people putting up to four new carbs on this model saw (under warranty) before the saw worked. I think it is a tolerance stack up problem, combined with the cost saving idea of securing the diaphragm with only two screws, instead of four is the root cause. I'm glad Stihl was able to increase their profit margins with the Chinese carb. It provided me with about 8 hours of diagnostic fun over the past 7 years to get this POS to run right.

Hope this helps someone with a similar problem, someday.

Thanks everyone that posts their cumulative wisdom on this forum! It is a great source of info and quite entertaining as well.

 

[tdi-rick]

All it shows is that they are jumping on the environmental bandwagon to look good. They are dedicated to making money at all costs! <snip>, unlike the RED obama regime would sign right now(even though the congress would have to ratify it and they would) . The chinese would never cede any controls to the UN.

<snip> because leftist politicians feel that everything that has gone wrong in this world is the USA's fault.

Aww c'mon Mike, that's the biggest load of political BS I think I've read on here.........

 

[tdi-rick]

The yuan is intentionally devalued to make their good more enticing to the rest of the world. If the yuan was at its true market value, no body in their right mind would buy anything chinese. On the flip side, if the chinese got pissed off at america, they could send us into economic nose dive like no one has ever seen! They own us, and it is a sad thing to say!

Yep, 100% true, except it's in China's best economic interests to keep the US afloat.
They own far too many US Bonds to want to see the US flounder. They will do whatever to keep you guys buying their stuff.

There was a very interesting article in yesterdays Sydney Morning Herald in the business section on China's current IT piracy and hacking operations, and why China's business culture has to change if they want to remain competitive with the west. The Google hacking wasn't really about email accounts of activists, it was all about theft of source code, the activist email accounts was just a beneficial by-product.
I'll dig up a link.

Now the scary part.
What they didn't mention in the article is that there is a power struggle occurring in Beijing between the reformists and the hardliners.
The old guard will be gone soon, so every man and his dog is jockeying for a position of power.
The reformists see trade and interaction with the west as the only possible solution for China's future, the hardliners, ie, those in the military and security branches are typically conservative and paranoid, and want to pull back from engagement. This is why you see operations such as the current hacking plunges on all of the western worlds governments and businesses.
The hardliners are trying to stir things up, they can't help it, it's a pre-emptive strike.

[edit] SMH article is here http://www.smh.com.au/business/a-bunch-of-hacks-20100117-meb7.html

 

[gallegosmike]

Aww c'mon Mike, that's the biggest load of political BS I think I've read on here.........

For a American point of view, that is how most us see it. Right now, there is a huge internal fight for what path america is going down. So far it has been the far left has been during to destroy the free market system and remake into a keynesian economic system. The key to it using environmental change to ramrod their changes to US free market system. The politicians( far leftist democRATS) have made it clear that they do not CARE what americans want. They are going to ram nationalized healthcare and some kind environmental change legislation down are throats. They do not care that kind of legislation are job killers of the highest order. Obama is wacko leftist that hate america and everything it stands for.

Looking from the outside in on australia, your country over the last 60 years has gone down the socialism path with cradle-to-grave policies. What has that done to your country? What has it done to other countries economies? For all the problems that america has, you as a normal citizen did not have road blocks to the path road to riches. If you had a brain and worked hard at what ever skill(s) you had. You were going to make a great living or better! Free market economies allow for every one that wants to succeed, to do so. The more that government stays out are lives whether it be personal or business. The better it is for all of us! The current form of the US government is starting the process of drowning americans in regulations.

 

[tdi-rick]

I actually disagree with almost everything you've said, but haven't the time ATM to refute it point by point.
Probably easier for everyone else if I get back to you with a PM ??

BTW, Australia is held up by (can't remember which economic think tank) as one of the top four free markets in the world, Hong Kong being # 1 !

 

[Zero Gravity]

For a American point of view, that is how most us see it. Right now, there is a huge internal fight for what path America is going down. So far it has been the far left has been during to destroy the free market system and remake into a keynesian economic system. The key to it using environmental change to ramrod their changes to US free market system. The politicians( far leftist democRATS) have made it clear that they do CARE what americans want. They are going to ram nationalized healthcare and some kind environmental change legislation down are throats. They do not care that kind of legislation are job killers of the highest order. Obama is wacko leftist that hate america and everything it stands for.

Looking from the outside in on australia, your country over the last 60 years has gone down the socialism path with cradle-to-grave policies. What has that done to your country? What has it done to other countries economies? For all the problems that america has, you as a normal citizen did not have road blocks to the path road to riches. If you had a brain and worked hard at what ever skill(s) you had. You were going to make a great living or better! Free market economies allow for every one that wants to succeed, to do so. The more that government stays out are lives whether it be personal or business. The better it is for all of us! The current form of the US government is starting the process of drowning americans in regulations.

You are sadly correct. All you have to do is travel the world and read the English language newspapers wearever you stop. They all hate the USA. All of the countries I have visited share this common belief that all of their problems are the fault of the USA. They want a nanny state that they can criticize any time. I have observed this in Europe, Asia, South America, Mexico.
ZG

 

[gallegosmike]

I actually disagree with almost everything you've said, but haven't the time ATM to refute it point by point.
Probably easier for everyone else if I get back to you with a PM ??

BTW, Australia is held up by (can't remember which economic think tank) as one of the top four free markets in the world, Hong Kong being # 1 !

Remember your a outsider looking in at what is happening to america. I am outsider looking in on what is happening to australia. America and australia are apples & oranges. The population of Australia is 22,119,498 as of 18 January 2010 and USA is 315,534,716. Australians also live a completely lifestyle. Your living standards are also different from americans.

I and most of america loves all of are god given freedoms. We Will Not just throw them away for any reason. Period! I am not going to talk about your politicians dissarming law abiding citizens for some crazy idea that is going to stop crime.

Ive learned by talk to people from other countries(western europe, eastern europe and south america) that THIER political system is the best. And all others are inferior. So be it.... To each his or her own.

Talking to expat ozzy's. They all complained about taxes and horrible healthcare(non-private). Like Ive said, I am a outsider looking in. The same complaint from canadians and Pommie's. Taxes, taxes and more taxes... Plus the whole nationalized healthcare being a giant steaming pile of dung!

 

[tdi-rick]

Mike, economically we are in much, much better shape than you.
One of those reasons is the limitations put on our banking industry. Debt couldn't be onsold four or more times !
Our banks are in incredibly strong positions, mainly through regulation. They just weren't allowed the unfettered speculation of your financial sector. that was just madness !
Pure, laissez faire free market economics just doesn't work, the corrections are too great and savage, so far too many, through no fault of their own fall through the cracks, although I doubt Friedman's adherents would allow that yet.
Our economy is also heavily tied into Asia as a commodities supplier, for better or worse, but that's another argument. At the moment it has sustained our economy, we never dipped into technical recession at all and are now growing strognly.

I have to ask, if the current administration didn't pump massive amounts of cash into the economy and left it all to fall, where would the US be now ? How long would that Depression last ? could you as a nation actually survive ? (although a part of me thinks it may have been for the best, or do as one wag suggested and just pay out $1,000,000 to each individual in the US. No more mortgage defaults, a huge injection into the cash economy and a hell of a lot cheaper than what it's cost already... a bit simplistic but it appeals to me...)
Maybe there was some leverage from the far east to keep things percolating, seeing as they already held so many Treasury Bonds thanks to Mr Bush having to fund two wars ?

As for living standards and lifestyle, is it that different and how ?
I'm curious as to your take. According to these figures it isn't that different http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living http://www.internationalliving.com/Internal-Components/Further-Resources/qofl2009

As far as freedoms go, whether the average person realises it or not, quite substantial freedoms were lost thanks to the Bush administration under the guise of 'security', ie the Patriot Act.
From my reading this is far, far more insidious, far more draconian than any potential gun control could ever be.
Big government can now pry into your lives as never before under the guise of 'Homeland Security', watch and listen, keeping files and notes on US citizens. The security agencies can intrude as never before with 'normal' rights and conventions as far as being held and arrest gone out the window.
In another time and place this would be called Fascist, yet it seems (?) to slip through with nary a murmur. Both sides of the House are complicit in this one.

Similar (actually worse) things happened here (and the UK) much to my disgust, and under a conservative government in Australia to boot.
When we lose freedoms such as we already have, the terrorists have won. The UK refused to buckle under constant bombings by the IRA through the seventies and eighties, yet now London and other major UK cities have the 'best' (most intrusive ?) public CCTV network in the world, one that would be the envy of the Chinese Communist Party....

Re healthcare, our healthcare system has many holes in it, and an ageing population like most western countries is putting greater strains on it but at least everyone has access to care, regardless of circumstances. If you need a heart by-pass, you will get it under the public system. Knee reconstruction ? It will happen eventually, if you can stand the wait.....
I want some input into who my surgeon is and where and more importantly when I get care so I've opted for (admittedly subsidised) Private cover, but we have that choice.
The govt also subsidises pharmaceuticals, so that many drugs and treatments are affordable for those that couldn't necessarily afford the latest and greatest treatments.
Can it be better ? Absolutely, it appears to be teetering ATM, at least in this state (which has an inept and incompetent Labor Govt) as each state controls their public hospital system, but Federal Medicare cover is available for all. This is financed by a 1.5% levy on your income.

Re taxation, the funny thing is, we think we are highly taxed here, but we are actually pretty average in world terms.
Aussies just love to whinge about Government, particularly taxation, so it doesn't sound too different from you lot
According to these '05 figures our personal income and corporate rates are lower than the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg
More current data is here http://www.worldwide-tax.com/ and '09 Corporate rates are here http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/24973.html

I'm probably a red ragging socialist in many eyes on here, I do believe in a strong safety net for those that need it but I hate the intrusiveness of modern government and despair at the continuing errosion of freedoms and liberties that are occurring in all our societies, particularly under the fear mongering guise of 'Security'.
I'm guessing we sing form the same song sheet regarding personal responsibility and what that entails, I just can't agree with the majority view here on the saintliness of the Repubs and the perfidy of the Dems. From an outsiders perspective it's the current Repubs that have got you (and by default, the rest of the world) into the economic mess that we see ourselves in. The behaviour of the Halliburton boys and a couple of wars you didn't really need might have coloured my view.

BTW, it's a bit of a common myth that we were 'disarmed'. Yes, semi-auto's were confiscated (and handsome compensation paid, many I know were paid more than the purchase price) but there are actually more firearms here now than before that crazy time. Virtually everyone outside urban areas has multiple long arms, it's as much in our culture as yours, except for handguns which have been heavily restricted for something like eighty years. Probably goes back to the days of too many Bushrangers running around screaming "stand and deliver !" at stage coaches.
Anyway, it's a myth we were totally disarmed, open anyone's gun cabinet around here and you'll probably see half a dozen rifles, just not quite the mix we used to sport.
Unfortunately most Australians these days are urban/city based and so IMO have lost touch a little with the 'realities' of life. ie. life, death, etc. Unfortunately this appears to lead to more appeals to authorities to regulate everything. Personal responsibility and the basic uncertainty of life seems to be disappearing. The Crocodile Dundee myth is just that. I've heard it said we are the most urbanised society on earth ! If that's true, most all the Aussies on this board are the last remaining links to the sun bronzed, tough, mythological Aussies.

 

[gallegosmike]

Mike, economically we are in much, much better shape than you.
One of those reasons is the limitations put on our banking industry. Debt couldn't be onsold four or more times !
Our banks are in incredibly strong positions, mainly through regulation. They just weren't allowed the unfettered speculation of your financial sector. that was just madness !
Pure, laissez faire free market economics just doesn't work, the corrections are too great and savage, so far too many, through no fault of their own fall through the cracks, although I doubt Friedman's adherents would allow that yet.
Our economy is also heavily tied into Asia as a commodities supplier, for better or worse, but that's another argument. At the moment it has sustained our economy, we never dipped into technical recession at all and are now growing strognly.

Well we did have tight controls over the banking industry here in the us till comrade clinton with help from the democRats and republicans. There use to be a separation between bank and investment firms. That all ended in 1999 when banking firms where allowed to buy investment firms. Most the large north american banks already had investment firms. They just got to sell their products through brick and mortar banks with less regulation. The real problem with the financial crisis fall of 2008 was the freddie mae and fannie mae, plus the us fed bank allowing to much cheap credit on the market. You’ll never hear it on us mainstream media. But that was the straw that broke the camels back! The whole freddie mae and fannie mae mess was complicated by involvement by the democratic party and a.c.o.r.n. . You’ll need to look that up on your own. I could spend a month of sundays going over that. It is a really complicated mess that screwed up the us economy via allowing the free unfettered flow of credit to unqualified applicants. So called toxic assets was the leftover of all that junk credit being put into them credit stream. That is what the t.a.r.p. bailout money was to account for. Meaning covering up for politicians screw ups! The largest north american banks have paid back the t.a.r.p. money plus interst to the government. The media will never(not here at least) tell, but the us federal government strong armed the banks into taking the money. It is another huge mess at this point in time. Obama administration is using that fact that banks where forced to take
the t.a.r.p. bailout to assert control over those finance institutions via compensation of employees. It is a populist move to look good to his party.

I have to ask, if the current administration didn't pump massive amounts of cash into the economy and left it all to fall, where would the US be now ? How long would that Depression last ? could you as a nation actually survive ? (although a part of me thinks it may have been for the best, or do as one wag suggested and just pay out $1,000,000 to each individual in the US. No more mortgage defaults, a huge injection into the cash economy and a hell of a lot cheaper than what it's cost already... a bit simplistic but it appeals to me...)
Maybe there was some leverage from the far east to keep things percolating, seeing as they already held so many Treasury Bonds thanks to Mr Bush having to fund two wars ?

The obama administration plus the democRatic partys so called stimulus package of 2009 was a money grab for the the democRatic party. Over the last two weeks, it has been coming out in us newpapers that it did not creates job any real jobs. It did pump money into the unions and a.c.o.r.n as pay off for getting obama elected. That piece of garbage bill was littered democRatic pet projects and other waste. It did nothing to help the american economy. All the stimulus bill really did was run up the us debt to china and devalue the us dollar. As for bush, I did not agree with ALOT of the things that his administration did. The two war had pro’s and con’s. From my point of view, it kept the terrorists busy elsewhere. Bush was not the idiot he was made out to be, the us media(allies to the democrats) plus the democRat party(internal documentation supporting this was leaked) used 9/11 and any other thing they could find to weaken bush. You’ve got to cut throat partisan politics where they use wholesale destruction a person or party to win at all costs. It is really down and dirty in the worst way!

 

[gallegosmike]

As for living standards and lifestyle, is it that different and how ?
I'm curious as to your take. According to these figures it isn't that different http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living http://www.internationalliving.com/Internal-Components/Further-Resources/qofl2009

Talking to expats, they told me that us is the land of bounty compared to australia. Meaning the the us dollar used to go farther(more buying power)then the AU dollar.

As far as freedoms go, whether the average person realises it or not, quite substantial freedoms were lost thanks to the Bush administration under the guise of 'security', ie the Patriot Act.
From my reading this is far, far more insidious, far more draconian than any potential gun control could ever be.
Big government can now pry into your lives as never before under the guise of 'Homeland Security', watch and listen, keeping files and notes on US citizens. The security agencies can intrude as never before with 'normal' rights and conventions as far as being held and arrest gone out the window.
In another time and place this would be called Fascist, yet it seems (?) to slip through with nary a murmur. Both sides of the House are complicit in this one.

Similar (actually worse) things happened here (and the UK) much to my disgust, and under a conservative government in Australia to boot.
When we lose freedoms such as we already have, the terrorists have won. The UK refused to buckle under constant bombings by the IRA through the seventies and eighties, yet now London and other major UK cities have the 'best' (most intrusive ?) public CCTV network in the world, one that would be the envy of the Chinese Communist Party....

The bush administration was pressured by the idiot neo-cons and democRats to sign the garbage “Patriot Act”. Politics here in the us are different then in australia. You name a bill the “Patriot Act” and do not vote for it. The opposing party will use it against you next election time. It is down dirty politics! Citizens of the UK ceded most of their personal freedoms to the government for the sake of false safety. The UK government act if it is scared of it’s own citizens. The UK government has been profiling it’s own citizens going back to late 70’s with the terrorist problem from ireland. The UK government is slowly de-evolving into a orwellian state for the stated reason of “safety”! The media here in the us obscured alot of what was going on behind the scenes with the eavesdropping on terrorists. I do not like the fact that us intelligence agencies were and or can eavesdrop on anyone without a judge’s order. I feel that it was going on long before it became a political hot potato to be used for political gain by the democRats. Homeland security has become a joke of mismanagement and wasteful spending. It needs to dismantled and rebuilt with more streamlined sharing of information among the intelligence agencies.

 

[gallegosmike]

Re healthcare, our healthcare system has many holes in it, and an ageing population like most western countries is putting greater strains on it but at least everyone has access to care, regardless of circumstances. If you need a heart by-pass, you will get it under the public system. Knee reconstruction ? It will happen eventually, if you can stand the wait.....
I want some input into who my surgeon is and where and more importantly when I get care so I've opted for (admittedly subsidised) Private cover, but we have that choice.
The govt also subsidises pharmaceuticals, so that many drugs and treatments are affordable for those that couldn't necessarily afford the latest and greatest treatments.
Can it be better ? Absolutely, it appears to be teetering ATM, at least in this state (which has an inept and incompetent Labor Govt) as each state controls their public hospital system, but Federal Medicare cover is available for all. This is financed by a 1.5% levy on your income.

Even though the “Media” (allies to the democrats) says that there is a “healthcare” problem in the us. It really is not the true problem. The media and democRatic party are again obscuring the facts! Right now in the us( I am a part of a small business that provides healthcare to employees) it is a cost issue, not a heatlhcare problem. You understand the differnce between healthcare and health insurance? Anyone that needs healthcare in the us has access to it for free or reduced cost. It is subsidised by employers, city - state - federal taxes, and various charities. If you need healthcare in the us, you have access to it. Ive had to use it in my poor days living pay check to pay check. All I had to do is prove how much I make. They(hospital) covered 95% of my emergency visit. When the “media” talks about healthcare, they assume we are all stupid hicks that can not think for themself. The “media” has confused healthcare with health insurance, further muddling up the issue. Almost 50% of americans DO NOT want nationalized healthcare! The current system is flawed because of the costs involved with it. We do not want rationing of health care like in the uk. When you can look up on the bbc website that rationing of health care uk is going on. And that rationing of medicine & treatments is going on. How long will it take for a american nationalized healthcare system to crumble under its own weight? And adopt uk style nationalized healthcare policies. The uk nationalized healthcare system is the largest employer in the world, bigger then the indian railway and red army. Think about how small the uk is compared to the usa.

 

[gallegosmike]

Re taxation, the funny thing is, we think we are highly taxed here, but we are actually pretty average in world terms.
Aussies just love to whinge about Government, particularly taxation, so it doesn't sound too different from you lot
According to these '05 figures our personal income and corporate rates are lower than the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg
More current data is here http://www.worldwide-tax.com/ and '09 Corporate rates are here http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/24973.html

As of this new year, the tax rates have gone up quite a bit! I do not have the exact amount because it is buried in peach tree software. But looking on the bottom line, it has gone up!

I'm probably a red ragging socialist in many eyes on here, I do believe in a strong safety net for those that need it but I hate the intrusiveness of modern government and despair at the continuing errosion of freedoms and liberties that are occurring in all our societies, particularly under the fear mongering guise of 'Security'.
I'm guessing we sing form the same song sheet regarding personal responsibility and what that entails, I just can't agree with the majority view here on the saintliness of the Repubs and the perfidy of the Dems. From an outsiders perspective it's the current Repubs that have got you (and by default, the rest of the world) into the economic mess that we see ourselves in. The behaviour of the Halliburton boys and a couple of wars you didn't really need might have coloured my view.

I do agree that governments(all of them) have become too intrusive in are personal lives. What is next, the thought police??? A person that gives up freedom for the false sense of security, deserves neither! Halliburton is company that makes a profit, I dont have a problem with it. The media again over doing it with minor screw up that they made. Follow the trail of money and you’ll both democRats and republican made money off halliburtons dealings with the government. Follow the trail of money to GE and other companys making green tech products, old boy GORE stands to make millions if not billions if climate change legislation is past in the us.

 

[gallegosmike]

BTW, it's a bit of a common myth that we were 'disarmed'. Yes, semi-auto's were confiscated (and handsome compensation paid, many I know were paid more than the purchase price) but there are actually more firearms here now than before that crazy time. Virtually everyone outside urban areas has multiple long arms, it's as much in our culture as yours, except for handguns which have been heavily restricted for something like eighty years. Probably goes back to the days of too many Bushrangers running around screaming "stand and deliver !" at stage coaches.
Anyway, it's a myth we were totally disarmed, open anyone's gun cabinet around here and you'll probably see half a dozen rifles, just not quite the mix we used to sport.
Unfortunately most Australians these days are urban/city based and so IMO have lost touch a little with the 'realities' of life. ie. life, death, etc. Unfortunately this appears to lead to more appeals to authorities to regulate everything. Personal responsibility and the basic uncertainty of life seems to be disappearing. The Crocodile Dundee myth is just that. I've heard it said we are the most urbanised society on earth ! If that's true, most all the Aussies on this board are the last remaining links to the sun bronzed, tough, mythological Aussies.

Okay, I will take your word for it. I can only comment on what I read. Again outsider looking in. I will say that taking away handguns doesnt solve any problems with crime. Ive never understood why people are willing to give up one type(handguns -so called assault rifles)of firearms to possibly save other types? Politicians look at gun bans / disarment as take alittle bit here and alittle bit there. Till everyone is disarmed and at the mercy of the state. Look at nazi germany and the soviet union, they started off with disarment and ended up with wholesale genocide of their citizens. How quickly we forget the past and are doomed to repeat it again and again...