The 'Made in China' can-o-worms.

[KiwiBro]

Many products or parts thereof are made in China. The speedpro kinetic splitters being one product and the ('made in U.S.A. from local and imported ingredients') DR kinetic splitter flywheels being another part. Why should the country of origin be an issue? Why not focus solely on the value for money it represents? Is there always a link between Chinese made and poor value for money?

Is it more than a simple prima facie 'value' proposition? Does your opposition to Chinese made extend to other countries of origin also, because you value the multiplier effects of your money being retained in the USA money go-round for others to benefit from?

Is it a 'retain U.S.A. jobs' thing for you?

Is there something else entirely that dissuades you from buying Chinese made?

 

[peterc38]

This is just my opinion, but when it comes to manufacturing the chinese have a long ways to go when it comes to building quality items. Clearly, they can compete on a cost factor alone at this point, but when it comes to quality, they don't come close to matching that of most other industrialized nations. The chinese are ok at copying stuff (in fact they are the runaway winners in industrial espionage) but not at innovating. Chinese engineers don't look at a widget and ask how they can make it better, they just figure out how they can copy it on the cheap and make lots of them. Even if they introduce a lot of inspection at the end of the assembly line before product ships to customer, that is not going to make for a better product. I work for an aerospace/defense contracter and studies have been done on the effectiveness of mass inspection and you would be surprised how ineffectuve it can be and how much stuff gets missed.The quality has to be built into the product up front by motivated, well trained workers, using modern manufacturing techniques and equipment and employing rigid process controls. So for me, I avoid most chinese made stuff for the above reasons, particularly big ticket items.

 

[Booshcat]

Many products or parts thereof are made in China. The speedpro kinetic splitters being one product and the ('made in U.S.A. from local and imported ingredients') DR kinetic splitter flywheels being another part. Why should the country of origin be an issue? Why not focus solely on the value for money it represents? Is there always a link between Chinese made and poor value for money?

Is it more than a simple prima facie 'value' proposition? Does your opposition to Chinese made extend to other countries of origin also, because you value the multiplier effects of your money being retained in the USA money go-round for others to benefit from?

Is it a 'retain U.S.A. jobs' thing for you?

Is there something else entirely that dissuades you from buying Chinese made?

Let's see.
The fact that many factories are still running on slave labor, gives me pause.
The fact that the obscene levels of pollution and industrial waste are killing thousands of people daily in order for the PLA run businesses to make a profit gives me pause as well.
If you don't care where your cheap goods come from, and who and how much suffer , then by golly skippy, the chinese are just the ticket.

 

[Whitespider]

Oh good lord… all bleeding heart and environmental BS aside…
The “Made In China” label doesn’t automatically turn me off. There are some very high quality products coming out of China, and some real crap… just like stuff made here in the good ol’ US of A. I buy, when I buy, where my dollar gives me the best value… ‘cause I’m lookin’ out for number one first. We live in a global economy… get used to it.

 

[Dalmatian90]

The Chinese can make quality goods; I don't think they can compete with the best of AUSCANNZUKUS, German, Nordic, French, Japanese precision manufacturing. Hell, even the Koreans and Italians can probably beat them.

But by an large it's a synonym for exceedingly cheaply made stuff.

Bought a 12' Stanley tape measure the other day, made in China (no other options I saw at Home Depot). It's not just a cheaper from labor difference, the castings for the case are significantly poorer quality then a perhaps 10 year old made-in-the-USA 12' Stanley tape measure.

Worse is when there aren't even options in the stores between Chinese junk and more Chinese junk.

And that's from brand-names with corporate reputations to protect.

You get into the no-name products, God help you.

One of the battles going on right now is of all things honey. You can imagine all the filth that Chinese bees pickup -- which is why it's banned by Western countries outright. So they try shipping through India and label it as Indian honey. When it actually is honey -- sometimes it's just other sweetners with thickner and coloring added and called honey. Honey laundering: tainted and counterfeit Chinese honey floods into the U.S. | Grist

This isn't just the isolated situations you find of fraud in Western Industrialized nations; this remains a systemic disregard for Western world values like concern for human safety, effective judiciary, and rule of law. They ARE improving, but there's a long way to go.

 

[jackel440]

I buy my stuff any chance I can made in the USA.I prefer my money to put the food in the belly and the clothes on the backs of my fellow Americans.
I see no reason to just buy a cheap import item from not just China but any other country if I can support the American working man.
Unfortunatly the weak minded thinking in America is "it's all about me saving a buck for my self" Thats why we have the problems we have.Everyone said "hey this is cheaper lets buy it" then that lead to more and more manufacturing being lost to saving a buck.
Yes we have a global economy.Too bad we as consumers decided to let the chinese ,and other developing nations take control of that future.To bad the corporatians got so damn greedy and had to have child labor(who can't afford what thier making) in these countrys making these products so they could reap bigger profits.To bad they couldn't make a little less profit ,and support american workers here.

Yes I have seen some quality stuff imported from China,but not very much.Do I own anything from there?yes I do.Am I real proud of it?no.
I am glad to see alot of new companys trying to start up manufacturing in our country.There has been several in my state of Indiana,and I hope they prosperand grow.
I am glad to see the local trades being busy.Millwright,Ironworkers,IBEW,and Pipefitters on new projects.These are dark days ,but there is some light shining from some places.
This is my opinion.The post asked what we thought .so i gave my thoughts.
Buy American,Buy Union.
Aaron Smith
UAW Skilled Tradesman.

 

[zogger]

I'd feel better about it if we had equal tariffs, under a "quid pro quo" arrangement. We set our tariffs by what the other nation sets their's, then we match it. they want 10%, fine, we match it. 100% on our stuff coming in, fine, 100% right back at them. that doesn't exist now though, yet they still get full trading rights. Heck, US corporations used to get serious *tax breaks* for moving production to china! I ain't kidding!

Level the playing field, I think you would fine USA would get back to being globally competitive in all manufactured goods, even with the labor wage scale disparity.

As it is, it is pretty hard to compete with fifty cents an hour labor scales or some low number like that, cost of living here is just way too high.

Right now I don't worry about consumer goods, I am worrying about some years not too far away in the future when they can pump out 1,000 "good enough" quality surface to air missiles per one USA fighter, or a thousand carrier killer cruise missiles per carrier, etc. Comes that day, china rules the world, they'll be able to bluff, and no one will call their bluff, nukes or not.

People go on an on how the USA outspends everyone on weapons and military, etc, they cite china as only spending ten percent of what the USA does. They never stop to think that they can produce ten times as much at that level. A million bucks gets a small factory in china built, up and running and product out the door there,(proly in two months, tops) a million bucks here gets a few old fat white guys in black suits sitting around an expensive hotel suite discussing some merger or takeover. Just the freeking paperwork and permits in the US to do anything are a deal breaker most of the time now.

it's not competing with just China that is the real problem, it is trying to compete with our own Wall Street psycho-kleptomaniacs and federal, state and local governments! There's a war on, a full scale no holds barred take no prisoners war against the actual wealth producers, the private sector US middle class. It's us versus the axis of maximum profits and political power, wall street, DC and china! They are allied against us! Cheap crap at walmart is just a symptom of the actual disease.

 

[Circle B MN]

"Made in China" has a notorious reputation of poor quality and reverse engineering, while parts of Korea are excelling in manufacturing and quality control, so you must not cast a broad opinion on Asian manufacturing. Honda and Toyota have been for some time leaders in quality manufacturing.



So why is it that we give aid to China and at the same time borrow money from them...?....

 

[derwoodii]

Got me thinking about cheap short life chainsaws vs. my 026 thats 22 years old and Stihl going strong making me $ and getting it done. Vs. impact on the environment and our system of economics by ever cheaper and shorter life span products.


http://www.arboristsite.com/political-views/180125.htm#post3143751

What upsets me is here in OZ we are mostly a mine for raw materials (iron coal cotton) that we send half way round the world to China's cheap labour with its sad attitude to freedom safety & life. There turned into more often crap gear thats sent on back sold to us lazy fools. You'll see it on the kerb a year later on its way to the tip.

I see change coming soon as the rise of a smarter middle class in China will soon dispose of it bizarre commie capitalist cross function.

Note, just last month a well run labour smart steel mill here closed & 300 plus outta work cus we can not compete to China cheap and our high dollar. Yet I am told the stuff from China is crap, lasts less than a year. And told the wholesalers move it fast as it rusts in their stock yards.

There endith my rant

 

[AT sawyer]

EBAY. The last best place to buy USA tools at a reasonable price. Who cares if it's 50 years old. Good steel and quality machining makes for a tool that lasts.

lot of 3 LUFKIN TAPE MEASURES: a 26 and two 10 foot rules GOOD USED CONDITION. | eBay

Starrett 25' ADA Building Code Tape Measure Ruler CT1-25 No Reserve | eBay

And of course my favorite of the bunch:

3X Sewing Tailor Seamstress Cloth Ruler Tape Measure | eBay

 

[Constrictor]

When i can i alway buy american. Ive never even sat in a forein car!

 

[Billy_Bob]

The Chinese don't care if their products injure or kill someone. All they care about is making money. If they have made money, then it is OK with them!

For example they sold over the counter medicine to people in South America and it killed many people. A guy from the Chinese company said it was Ok because they made money!

They don't do product testing for safety, they just stick a counterfeit U.L label on products. And use inferior materials in the products. They don't care if it burns down someone's house.

Basically any kind of product testing, customer support, quality, etc. is out the window. The only thing which counts is that someone buys it.

I've bought things which do not work out of the box.

And many things don't last very long. Sometimes just one or two months.

They also counterfeit products. Make them look like the real product, but they are not and they are not safe. Like circuit breakers and other electrical items...

High-Risk Products...
High-Risk Products | Counterfeits Can Kill

 

[Booshcat]

The chinese are not our friends.....

 

[danrclem]

I try to buy US made products unless it just doesn't make sense to. The guy that I help keep working just might help keep me working.

 

[rob206]

If I want, or need to buy something, my frame of mind is "what is the best quality I can get within my budget" not "how much cheaper can I get this product." I suppose if someone offered to give me a semi truck load of garbage for free that would represent a good value, but I would still be stuck with garbage. That is how I think of MOST Chinese made products.

 

[tomsteve]

i guess the gremlin, vega, and pinto were all manufactured and assembled in china too? oops. nope good old american quality. how many parts were imported for those cars?
to me it doesnt really matter made in anywhere. quality counts. snap on tools,mac tools, even craftsman have tools made out of country.
heres a good site to find made in america tools.

Still Made in USA.com - American-Made Tools

 

[Streblerm]

Yes, there are plenty of counterfeit goods out there but I do not believe there is some great chinese conspiracy to destroy the US by providing poor quality goods. Most of the things we buy that are made in China are made there on behalf of a company based here or somewhere else. The chinese factories are turning out junk because american companies are specifiying that they make cheap junk. Vise-grip brand vise grips are a good example. They are no longer made here in the US and their quality is not the same as it used to be IMHO, yet their price has stayed the same. This isn't a chinese conspiracy, it is an american one and the corporations are laughing all the way to the bank. Too bad all those people who used to wirk for vise-grip can no longer afford their products.

If a US company makes something in China and saves a boatload on manufacturing costs and that "something" is of poor quality due to poor quality control then I say it is the US company's fault, not the Chinese factory's.

Anyway, there is a bunch of poor quality merchandise out there regardless of where it is made or how much it costs. When I buy something I try to find the cheapest item that will perform as intended. I prefer to buy items made here but I will not spend twice what an equivilant offshore product will cost if it will function the way I need it to function.

The solution is to turn the Chinese people into consumers just like we are conditioned to be. Make them want STUFF and a higher quality of living. Over time this will raise the cost of manufacturing there. From what I understand this is already beginning to happen.

 

[audible fart]

I had 3 dangerously crappy chinese woodsoves before i got the nice efficient Canadian stove i have now. Someone had either just given these chinese stoves to a family member or they picked them up for super cheap. Since chinese stove 1 had a mondo crack in the side, i replaced it with chinese stove #2 i forget the name, but google searches said it was.a chinese copy of a more sturdily built stove made in america. But this stove was junk. And the third was just the same. Inefficient junk metal prone to cracking. So buying a chinese stove willingly and on purpose serves little purpose other than to put your house in danger because of the illusion of $400 savings over a quality stove with an actual legit pedigree. The metal quickly becomes unstable in my experience.

 

[H-Ranch]

Yes, there are plenty of counterfeit goods out there but I do not believe there is some great chinese conspiracy to destroy the US by providing poor quality goods. Most of the things we buy that are made in China are made there on behalf of a company based here or somewhere else. The chinese factories are turning out junk because american companies are specifiying that they make cheap junk. Vise-grip brand vise grips are a good example. They are no longer made here in the US and their quality is not the same as it used to be IMHO, yet their price has stayed the same. This isn't a chinese conspiracy, it is an american one and the corporations are laughing all the way to the bank.

Vise-grips being made in China is not a good example of the counterfeit issue. There are very lax laws concerning intellectual property/patents in China so there is almost no risk to making goods that are a replica of things made elsewhere - sometimes even down to the name and packaging. The end customer may not even be aware that they have been duped until the product is found to be inferior. It's not necessarily a "conspiracy", but the Chinese government is complicit in allowing it to happen.

 

[Dozer Man]

I have to say that I agree with all of you. Should we all buy American when possible? Absolutely. I still have to decide what is right for me and my family. When you can save $1k on a $40k car/truck that is not made in the US, it doesn't sound that bad. But saving $1300 over a $3000 purchase?? That is something you can't overlook. I weigh ALL of the issues before making any kind of purchase, small or large. If money is no object then the decision is clear. Unfortunatly most of us have to watch how much we spend just as much as we're watching where we spend it. We can all do our part to support local labor, I just did it in the form of supporting a local vendor (tsc) and the employees therein. I could complain that maybe "unions" have something to do with the economy being the way it is...but that would probably just be my jealousy of that I'm not related to anyone that works at the local "uaw" GM plant who can get me hired to make $35/hour while smoking dope and drinking on the job while not required to take a mandatory pee test. Whew...long rant (and I'm only jealous of the $35/hr the other stuff just pxxxxs me off)...but probly nothing to do with it and hopefully didn't offend anyone. It's not any one person, or businesses, fault for the shape our economy is in.

But still my point is that we should all keep aware of where our products that we purchase come from. And try to buy American whenever feesable. But at the end of the day we need to take care of our own and do what is best for our families, be it what we get or just what we can afford.